NCsoxfan

Yoan Moncada was traded plus much more, don't tell me that Clint fricking Frazier can't be deal

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 10:18 PM) There isn't going to be be a better market for Quintana. You can't get better than being literally the only TOR pitcher available. The market may be scarce again someday, but Quintana will have less control then, and he can't realistically pitch better than he has been pitching. It's certainly possible for someone to pay more later, but it's not likely. That doesn't mean take a BS offer, but there is definitely real motivation to get the deal done this offseason if at all possible. It doesn't matter if there's a "broad market". Really all you need is one team to meet your demands. So if you have 10 teams interested today but they don't meet your demands, is that a great market? Conversely if you get to the deadline and there's only 1 team interested but they're desperate and meet your demands, then that's better.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 09:19 AM) Rays pick up Coats on Waivers. They got a bargain. We get whatshisname. He had his chance and really didn't do much. Best of luck to him

Q makes too much sense to the Yankees to not happen, IMO. The issue is that everyone is too focused on 2017, but after Tanaka/Sabathia/Pineda? are gone, the Yankees have an extremely thin roster. Cashman might want to see how 2017 plays out to see how close they are. If their young regulars start producing & they look like a 87-89 win type team, how do you not go after someone like Q? If you can look past 2017, its too perfect of a match.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 03:39 PM) Sox are far from panicking They hold all the leverage in negotiations. Unless they get their price, Quintana stays I'm saying that in response to the below message, not what I think the Sox are doing: QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 03:09 PM) * Newman may not feel like an adequate headliner now, but Quintana has so much as a bad month and you'll be begging for him at the deadline. That to me sounds like a panic, if you were to move forward and trade for him out of fear.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 03:09 PM) Newman may not feel like an adequate headliner now, but Quintana has so much as a bad month and you'll be begging for him at the deadline. Gahhhh, am I glad you're not running the negotiations. This kind of mentality of fear is how you capitulate and trade him for an underwhelming package. You don't know how Q will pitch, you don't know how Newman will play (or Glasnow, or Meadows or anyone else). None of us do. But, this mentality of "it can only get worse from here" is pure BS. If you trade for the prospects now, you're taking a risk as well. The trade deadline could yield a buyer who isn't in the bidding process today (maybe a starter gets injured), for prospects who maybe we aren't even talking about today.

Some blurbs from an Insider article today on the best time to trade Q: Best time to trade him for maximum value: At the trade deadline on July 31. "...However, because they haven’t been able to make a deal at this point, and haven’t had an offer that’s close to their asking price, they might be better off waiting to trade Quintana at the July trade deadline, when there would be more of a sense of urgency and competition from contending teams to land him" "...You only have to look at the returns for pitchers such as David Price, Aroldis Chapman and Andrew Miller over the past two trade deadlines to understand that’s when your best offers in trades normally come in." "...The White Sox should expect to receive a package somewhere between what they got from the Boston Red Sox in the Chris Sale trade and their return from the Washington Nationals in the Adam Eaton deal." They then go on to give some sample trades they think would make sense from the Astros, Pirates, and Yankees http://www.espn.com/blog/the-gms-office/in...r/post?id=13713

QUOTE (Baron @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 10:52 PM) Waiting until the deadline is dangerous. What if Glasnow is pitching? What if Martes is pitching for the Astros? They probably wont want to move those guys if they are contributing to the team. Then your screwed. Look at the free agent list next offseason plus with the change in compensation. I'd tell the White Sox to screw themselves with that asking price with the free agent market becoming much more friendly. Or new prospects emerge and today's darlings stumble. Welcome to world of prospects. We have Q signed for 4 freaking years, there is ZERO reason to rush this - even if it means another year

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 09:34 PM) Rumbunter is implying Meadows & Bell are off limits. They also think the package would be built around Glasnow & Newman. Under those conditions, I don't think there is a third player they could offer that would beat out a potential Astros deal headlined by Martes & Tucker with two other pieces. Keller is perhaps the one exception, but I'd rather get a couple offensive prospects from Houston like Reed, Fisher, Leareano, Stubbs, etc instead. If Pittsburgh is saying that then Hahn is saying GTFO.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 03:39 PM) It stretched from July 1st onward tbh. True, but wouldve been torture if he wasn't dealt at the winter meetings.

aren't you guys glad the Sale trade didn't stretch this long?

Am I the only one who really really does not want a package centered around Glasnow?

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 7, 2017 -> 01:00 PM) Dave Cameron put this best, so I am going to blatantly copy and paste what he said and then link to the chat in question. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/dave-camero...aphs-chat-1417/ It's not a bad answer, but I think it doesn't hold up. In his example you're dealing with a good that is largely fungible and not scarce (a car). Said student does NOT risk being unable to find another car to use when he/she graduates. It is different when dealing with a top of the rotation starter. Should we trade Q today, there's no guarantee we are able to find/have one when we're ready to compete. Obviously, if we're ready to compete in year 4 versus year 3 it changes things a little bit.

Here's an interesting question: assuming Q performs the same going forward, how much would his value decline if you tried to trade him after two more years versus today? Thinking is that we don't know how prospects & other trades & roster players will pan out, and it's possible the Sox are ready to contend in year 3. Thus meaning we'd still have two years of Q! So is it worth keeping him for two more years with the knowledge you'd have the optionality of having a TOR starter? If you're not a contender you could still trade him with 2 years left. We might not be getting Q's full value for his 4 years of control.

The @insidebaseball6 twitter account has some interesting (albeit not groundbreaking) info on Astros and Yankees interest in Q. Full disclosure, no idea if there's merit to it.

Via Sean Sears on Twitter : "The #Astros are willing to part with Tucker, Martes, and Paulino for #Sox Jose Quintana, per source"

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 12:56 PM) es.pn/2jjo1Eg 8m-12m: Peter gammons on Pirates/Q. Speculate astros coming back for Q with similar Archer deal. Discuss Pirates getting Q then trading Cole in year or two to recoup. 19m: Dave Dombrowski on Sale Some interesting notes: - Wash reports coming out, DD is nervous - Use thornberg trade to confirm deal is still possible (one player was discussed with chisox prior) - was not confirmed until next da but that night, Hahn brings up Basabe/Diaz and DD confirms they are open to that Kinda continues to be confusing. I was sure we used Wash rumors to make Bosox nervous into including devers but seems pretty clear boston was not budging on him + moncada 35 mm hahn - haven't listened to yet. I figure people are bored and could be interested. After reading about how DD recounts the story, it almost made me think they were willing to include more when he immediately said yes to including Basabe/Diaz. Obviously you never know, but it made me wonder if Hahn could've asked for more since he hit that offer.

Interesting data https://d1baseball.com/draft/mlb-draft-study-1996-2011/

QUOTE (reiks12 @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 10:38 AM) The Astros offered the moon for Archer and got turned down. I would love to have a bug in that office to hear what kind of calls they are having with Hahn. Astros have played the whole "we will only trade for pitching at our price", and now come to find out they got turned down for a huge deal for Archer. I love it. They're either going to have to go into the season with their current staff or seriously pony up for Q.

Was the GM who voted Giolito #1 Hahn?

Acuna is tearing up winter league (take it fwiw), so I'd def want him in any package. Albies, Maitan, Acuna, and Soroka?

This is such a tough one for me. I feel confident Q will maintain his performance over time & am very skeptical the actual return will end up yielding what Q will give value wise. Consistency and term IMO mean Q should get as much as Sale but sadly we know that won't happen

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 11:08 PM) BlackSox13 brings up an intriguing idea. The Mariners. Lewis/O'Neill/Neidert/Vogelbach/Haniger isn't terrible. Lewis, the OF who crushed at the small Georgia school? If he's the headliner, no way I'm game. Nice prospect and all, but seems nowhere close to being a major contributor. Update: Yes, just looked. He was their 1st round pick in '16 and blew out his ACL in July in Single- A ball. Hard pass.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 11:45 AM) Bregman is a major case of Sox fans wanting what they cannot have. The Red Sox would have been willing to give up more also. Pretty obvious now that Dombrowski had locked on to Sale months ago and wasn't going to leave the meetings without him. The Bregman love is ridiculous. Sox fans are not being delusional to think Q is worth Bregman. He's a fantastic prospect and has a high likelihood of panning out, but even he is no sure thing. Just look at his start. The mere fact that Houston has made him untouchable doesn't mean anything for his future play. I would be very surprised if the next 4 years of Bregman exceeded the WAR of Quintana.

Excerpt from a Buster Olney insider article: "The industry perception of the White Sox is that they made a home run trade of Sale, in what they got back from the Boston Red Sox -- acquiring highly touted infield prospect Yoan Moncada, pitching prospect Michael Kopech and minor leaguers Luis Alexander Basabe and Victor Diaz. The assumption is that they will probably be able to do the same with Quintana, who is under team control for four seasons at a tremendous rate. Rival execs say the asking price is enormous, but the White Sox are in a position to wait until someone says yes, even if that means carrying the process into spring training. This makes me call BS on the supposed trade with the Astros that was turned down. I think they're asking for more than the Musgrove package.