Milkman delivers

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 02:26 PM) You really think the haul for those 2 is going to be enough to save the franchise? Trade Jackson cause you're not resigning him anyway, keep Q so you can have him and Viciedo (hopefully) tear it up for the rest of this and next year. Not those moves alone, no. It'd have to be a sustained plan. And c'mon, do you really think Quentin will tear it up the rest of this year and next? The guy is erratic as hell, and there's a good chance he has a terrible year or that he breaks his wrist wiping his ass.

QUOTE (Cali @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 02:26 PM) I don't think a divisional dynasty is a thing. I've never heard the Atlanta Braves called a dynasty and they won what 14 in a row? You've never heard the Braves called a dynasty?

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 02:16 PM) I've never heard of any pro sports team being a "dynasty" for winning their division and getting bounced in the playoffs every year. That argument was made already. Just because they're not referred to in the media as a dynasty doesn't make it any less true. The definition of a sports dynasty is a team that has a sustained run of dominance. It's true that the Twins have done nothing in the playoffs, and I'm not going to argue that because I'd be wrong. But they have dominated the Central division for a while which, by definition, would make them a dynasty of their division.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 02:20 PM) And gain what? A possible future.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 09:05 AM) Now I think Jeter is as overrated as anybody, but that is a bit harsh. It's just wrong.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 01:43 PM) Seriously? If the guy is willing to climb up on top of a four foot table to try for his 3rd baseball, I'm not sure what outside of barbed wire or an electric fence you would need to stop this guy from being incredibly stupid. There is already a fairly substantial rail there that the dude just chose to ignore. It's sick how stupid people can be. I'm sorry that the father died because he reached a little over the railing, but I wouldn't give two s***s if that moron fell off of that table and got impaled by a fencepost. I f***ing hate that everything has to be idiot-proofed because of these jagoffs and the possibility that they might sue due to their own stupidity.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 02:00 PM) The only reason it is "condescending" is because it is a direct contradiction to the reasons Ozzie Guillen needs to be fired. It's condescending because you completely went off of the point in order to minimize their accomplishments, as though every single person on this site isn't aware of their futility in the playoffs. I stated from the very beginning that I was speaking in terms of just the division.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 01:58 PM) That's just not a dynasty. The Detroit Pistons won the NBA Central Division for 6 of 7 years, even got a title, but no one in their right mind would call them a Dynasty. The Colts have won their division for 7 of the last 8 years. Then they're both dynasties of their divisions, as I specifically said. You can go ahead and disagree, which you will because you love it, but that doesn't make you any less incorrect. When you have a run of dominance over several years in a specific group, you are a dynasty. And don't turn this around to championships, because I started this entire thing off by saying that they are a dynasty of only the Central division.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 01:53 PM) Or at least win a single playoff game? Heck we keep hearing that it doesn't matter if the Sox get to the playoffs and get smacked down right away, yet the Twins are a dynasty for doing exactly that? Uh, ok. Yes, they are. Because they do it almost every year, which makes it a dynasty. You can come up with as many condescending remarks as you want, but that's the fact of the matter. The Sox pull a division title out of their asses once or twice a decade. The Twins have done it 6 times in 9 seasons. I think that qualifies them as a dynasty of the AL Central, which is what I said. They're not a dynasty of the league like the Yankees were for a few decades, but they are for the division in which they play.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 01:48 PM) How many consecutive years does a team need to lose to the Yankees before we call it a dynasty? Ugh, this has nothing to do with us. They're a dynasty in the Central division.

QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 07:38 AM) what does "no idea" mean to you? J4L is a lot of people, apparently.

QUOTE (since56 @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 05:59 AM) 5 games back at the break with a veteran team. Lets not read the eulogy yet. Detroit? Cleveland? Minnesota? Not exactly dynasties. In what sense do you mean dynasty? Because the Twins have won this division in 6 of the last 9 seasons. That's somewhat dynastic.

QUOTE (ParkerBear7 @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 12:44 AM) Warning: Extremely long post! I also do not like how this season has gone thus far but what irks me is fans like you who quit on the team. KW and Ozzie deserve more respect for how they turned the Sox around years ago from a cultural disaster and winning standpoint. What I am not saying here: KW & Oz should not be untouchable and should be accountable for their fair share of mistakes. Obviously, from my perspective they have not yet earned a one way ticket out of town. The truth is this team was in a major slump where losing was the norm year in year out. KW and Ozzie have revitalized this organization. If they didn't you would probably already be a cubs fan (may be a little harsh since I do not know you but it got your attention!). I would argue that Williams and Guillen are actually responsible for having raised all of our expectations to the point that Sox fans no longer except mediocrity. I view this as a good thing. I still believe in the overall philosophy of Jerry, KW, and Ozzie; the vision to re-instill White Sox baseball by bring back a lot of former Sox players from the 80's etc. Heck, they have even recently brought Robin Ventura back in a limited minor league role. I really think this Sox Family philosophy is key to success oh and it would be helpful if the player perform as expected….Rios, Dunn, Bacon….et al!!! Kenny Williams: Sure, I do not always agree with KW roster moves (feel he has bit of a gambling problem that only worsened after having much luck in 2005) and it is not coincidental that the Sox are ALL IN! Anyone looking at his trade history understand why this is a fitting marketing slogan. But know this; Kenny Williams is a very competitive GM that wants to win it all every year but that is what I want in a GM. I too wish KW would exercise some restraints before trading away some of the young guys but other than lets say Chris Young and Daniel Hudson which trades have really come back to haunt the Sox? I can't think of many. Ozzie Guillen: Now let me talk about the man you most want gone: Ozzie. I love Ozzie’s fire and passion for the game and how he is not afraid to mix it up. Yes, I also agree that his rants grow old from time to time. Question: is it hypocritical if Sox fans who also are Bears fan could love this same passion and fire that we all loved in Coach Ditka who happened to be the last famous Head Coach to win a major championship before the Black Hawks? Yes, Ditka finally wore out his welcome with management and I am not saying Ozzie will not eventually do the same. I think managing baseball has to be the hardest sport too manager as the season is so long with fewest playoff spots. Not an excuse but a reality of baseballs current format. Now it is impossible for me to follow the sox as close as when I lived in Chicago but your demand for Ozzie to be fired is not going to solve the problem. Firing Ozzie will only accomplish one thing, last place and a lame duck manager such like past managers like Terry "boomer" Bevington, Jerry Manual, Gene Lamont etc. Here is an alternative for your axe to grind: Why not give credit where credit is due...the players deserve credit for how this season has gone so far due to performance. Here is the good news: As bad as this team has played the first half, they are only a few games back and still have a chance. Go Sox! Yes, we expect more, but that's still what we get. Mediocrity. And Ditka is the perfect comparison for Ozzie. They're both loudmouths that tripped over championships thanks to an aspect of the team that is widely credited to another coach (Buddy Ryan's defense and Don Cooper's pitching staff), have worn out their welcomes, and will continue to be fellated for years by an easily-pleased and, for the most part, ignorant group of Chicago fans.

If these things are true, I don't know why Kenny Williams sticks around. He has no power to fire his manager, and he can't even fire a coach? Why bother? His ego is the only reasonable answer, but that could work both ways.

QUOTE (Stocking @ Jul 11, 2011 -> 11:21 PM) Jeter should have not accepted #3000 ball ^this. What a terribly-written article.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jul 11, 2011 -> 05:42 PM) Nitetrain, I think I do. If a manager is negative his layers may very well emulate that attitude. In the case of our players I think they also see the positive of Ozzie and his backing them up. Ozzie doesn't throw his players under the bus. Maybe he should from time to time, but he doesn't. I have picked up what I think is support from the likes of PK and MB for Ozzie and the staff. Ozzie's never thrown a player under the bus? Ha!

QUOTE (Swingandalongonetoleft @ Jul 11, 2011 -> 07:46 PM) Chris Berman is a terrible human being, but especially so when he "calls" the HR Derby. He's the main reason I don't watch.

Horrible Bosses was hilarious.

QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Jul 11, 2011 -> 03:13 PM) I understand that. If he figures out a way to win this division with the state that the team is currently in, it would be a miracle that would warrant future consideration, as much as that pains you I don't think it would be a miracle. It would just be a bunch of terrible teams with one team being slightly less bad than the others. I don't believe it would warrant future consideration at all.

QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Jul 11, 2011 -> 03:05 PM) Winning the division would require us figuring out a way to beat the Twins. Provided Ozzie could fanagle that, I think there would be SOME reason for optimism going forward. I'm of the opinion that Ozzie's act is done here and that nothing is going to change that.

QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Jul 11, 2011 -> 03:00 PM) I think Ozzie should get until the end of this season and should be fired if this team does not make the playoffs. I think he has earned that with the success he has had. If the team makes the playoffs, Ozzie should stay, even if it's an 83-79 playoff team that gets swept. It would be very hard to fire a manager who had won 3 division titles in 8 seasons. I think his individual successes in motivating players and intangibles have been underemphasized in light on focusing on only the bad in-game decisions, and it's been amplified this season to the nth degree. I agree that the players have underperformed and that has been the crucial problem. My stomach turns to even read that. What you said is exactly what would happen, and that's unfortunate. It's my biggest fear at the moment.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 11, 2011 -> 02:58 PM) Promote Jeff Bajenaru Club: 1. Rockraines 2. Milkman delivers 3. Pastime 4. Sox Hustler 5. NUKE_CLEVELAND 6. knightni 7. ScottPodRulez22 8. SoxFan1 9. Jake Half of those people are either gone or are never ever around anymore. I can't really bump any of my old avatars or signatures since I've had the same ones the entire length of my time here. I'm constantly turning back the clock.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jul 11, 2011 -> 02:25 PM) I believe that too much emphasis is being placed on the manager being responsible for the poor performance of people like Rios and Dunn and injuries to players like Peavy. It is player performance that is the problem not the manager (but that's my opinion). We might need a shake up with a trade or two and I most certainly would like to have Viciedo up with the team, but he needs a place to play. DH or the OF and heck maybe even 3B again. I think we have players playing out of position and too many at one. Teahan, Morel and Vizquel at 3B and then Teahan vying for time in LF and RF and 1B. Versatility is great, but a player who was a full-time guy is now relegated to a part time role. Hard to keep sharp. Dunn playing as a DH and he has never done that before. And of course it seems everyone was slumping at the same time except Konerko and maybe AJP. I know the clamor is for some kind of change, but change could come with players hitting, pitching and running and fielding like they are supposed to and not firing the manager. We are only 5 out (somehow) and we are in this divisional race. You didn't answer his question. What needs to happen for you to support a manager (particularly Ozzie) being fired?

Haha, that went well.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 11, 2011 -> 02:39 PM) Have you ever had to make a split second decision between leaning 3 inches more and missing a foul ball? Yes, twice as I recall. Actually one was fair.