Milkman delivers

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 07:00 PM) SO WILL SCREAMING ABOUT THEM ON A RANDOM MESSAGE BOARD. That won't help either, but we can't even talk about the problems the team is experiencing without people acting like we're saying that the world is coming to an end.

QUOTE (MuckFinnesota @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 05:43 PM) The following people should go on the record stating that there will be a fire sale on July 31, 2011: johndyce Marty34 Milkman delivers If others can't watch this team and will continue to gripe about prices, then why follow these teams? Also, is Boston or the Cubs going to have a fire sale because they are underachieving in terms of records? Cubs: 8-8 NYY: 9-5 Boston: 5-10 Also...why should the Sox offer discount codes when the Cubs suck for a vast majority of that 81 games and still charge full price? $5 tickets? How about no? Buy the standing room only and watch the game if you can't afford it. I never said there would be a firesale. I've said that it's a very real possibility based on what has happened so far. Perhaps you should put more time into reading and less into feeling sorry for yourself. QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 06:03 PM) Nope. I'd rather stand pat, fire our lousy GM and manager, and give the new guy the chance to trade our heavily priced veterans. I agree with the title of this thread, btw. Unless something really hard to forsee happens. A bad bullpen and defense is a recipe for failure, especially if our offense is going to go cold. This.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 04:47 PM) When your main metric is WS wins, sure. If its consistent WS contender, no. nice

QUOTE (Heads22 @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 04:30 PM) THE SEASON IS 10% OVER AND WE'RE FIVE GAMES OUT SELL SELL SELLLLLL SARCASM WILL DEFLECT ALL OF OUR OBVIOUS STRUGGLES AS A TEAM FOR BOTH THIS YEAR AND THE RECENT PAST

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 04:32 PM) You know, I'm not sure that I buy the "AL Central has been pretty weak" for the last decade. The AL East, for example, has had 2-3 moribund franchises for almost the whole decade, the Central has only had one. All of the other 4 teams from the Central have made the playoffs this decade, everyone except Detroit more than once. Every team has had at least 1 down year. Or you can take that and say that the division is so mediocre that basically anyone can win it. It's a farce for anyone to actually call the Central division good, and you know it.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 04:28 PM) Yes it does, it means you're watching a team that wins more games than it would at the same payroll if we weren't getting that. The White Sox, based on their payroll, should be an average team, winning about 81 games a year. Instead they average about 85. WOWIE! I can't wait to use that defense the next time someone mentions that the Sox have only been in the playoffs twice in ten years in a division in which they've had the highest payroll twice since 2001 and been in the top two every single year since that point. Or when it's mentioned that we've had 1 title in over 90 years, at least we average 85 wins when we should really only be at 81. I much prefer to be slightly better than mediocre than to be the very definition of it!

QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 04:27 PM) It's insane...if it was someone like Carlos Zambrano who produced what Peavy has since he was acquired, people would be saying he was the biggest bust in Sox history. However, since they like Peavy and his "bulldog" approach, they're sitting around waiting for the Cy Young version of him to return (something he's said is likely gone for good). He said that?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 04:19 PM) You do realize that the AL Central is the only division with 3 $100 million+ teams this year, right? This is the first year of that

QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 04:14 PM) Since 1993, the White Sox have won more games than any team in the American League with the exception of the Yankees, Red Sox and Indians, and they are JUST BEHIND the Indians. They've averaged 86+ wins per 162 games during that span. I really don't know what else to say. If you think this organization is s***, then do yourself a favor and just stop watching baseball. With four playoff appearances to show for it, being shown the door immediately in 3 of those 4 opportunities. Always just good enough to be relevant, but just bad enough to not make a splash.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 04:11 PM) That freakin team lost me 20 bucks to my roommate at the time. The bet? He got the Cardinals, I got the rest of the field in the f***in playoffs that year. Really? That's actually a pretty cool story.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 04:04 PM) Well that's because it always is. When you quite obviously have the most talented roster in your division and you're 7-9 in mid April it's always too freakin early to give up. This team quite clearly has a good offense and a solid top 4 of the rotation. Now, I was quite confident to start the year that our bullpen was going to be very good this year, I can't say I'm confident in that anymore. If they are, we have a good chance to not only make the playoffs but do some damage, if they continue to be dreadful, well than we're not going anywhere. And putting an April trend on a manager is just odd to me in baseball, the manager can only do so much and while I've been a huge critic of Ozzies(the guy honestly pisses me off to no end) I'm not pinning any odd trend like this on him, the start to this season is not his fault. That all being said, if we continue to struggle and fail to reach the post season, Ozzie and Kenny both need to go. I'm completely with you guys who believe that we've for the most part underachieved during this managements tenure and if this current roster can't succeed then we need some wholesale changes. This is the only light at the end of the tunnel for me. With each painful loss, I have a glimmer of hope and I can work up a smile knowing that they will also be gone.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 03:27 PM) Haha, whatever. I can think of quite a few teams that make the playoffs consistently and not all of them have payrolls of "a couple of hundred million dollars." All of these teams have made the playoffs more than the Sox in the last 10 years: Angels Athletics Twins Yankees Red Sox Braves Phillies Cardinals Cubs Astros Diamondbacks Dodgers Giants Hell, even the Indians, Rays, Rockies, and Padres have made the playoffs as many times as the Sox over the last 10 years. Now I might be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure the Sox have had the highest or second-highest payroll in the division in each of those 10 years. That is not good. And I hardly think it Red Sox-ian to expect better results. I fear you and others just have such low standards that anything other than a last place finish is acceptable. I just went back to check out my own numbers. According to USA Today, the White Sox have been in the top 2 of payroll in the division since 2001.

QUOTE (knightni @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 03:48 PM) As much as I'm not happy as to where the Sox are right now, dropping Ozzie and KW would be fool-hardy. Who is a better option out there right now for next year? KW is a very good GM with a bad habit of dragging corpses from the late '90s/early '00s onto the roster. Over the next 3 years, the Sox will be rebuilding and repairing the Doug Wilder mess and will have prospects to use from the home system. Beckham and Sale are the tip of it. Mitchell and Thompson can't be far behind. Sox fans are very short-sighted at times. How do you know that the grass on the other side of the fence is greener because it's better? How do you know that it's not Krylon and Astroturf? There are surely people out there who are better suited to rebuild a franchise. I don't know any specific people, as I'm not in the baseball field. Just because we don't know a particular person does not mean they don't exist. There may be dozens of qualified baseball minds readily available to take this team in a different direction. The job of the front office is to find these people and put them in a position to steer this team in another direction. Not every new manager/GM has to be a retread that was driven out of another city.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 03:53 PM) And you absolutely should but it's way too damn early to be giving up on this particular team that's for sure. This same debate happens every year, though. Some people think it's an entire organization problem. If this year ends the same way the last few have ended, there will still be people saying "it's too early" next season when the same thing is happening again.

QUOTE (hawksox13 @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 03:36 PM) That's great news! The sky isn't falling after all. It's got some visible cracks, though.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 03:32 PM) Peavy to miss one start. And that is what we consider a setback. Now to further probe, does he pick up where he left off with the pitch count? Or does he start from scratch again?

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 03:23 PM) *cough* At the time, I was very happy to see the Cardinals take it. I regret it everyday.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 03:07 PM) You forgot the kind that revels in misery. Jesus. I'm sorry I don't revel in the high-octane fun that is watching Peavy walk back to the dugout hoping that he doesn't break his ankle in doing so.

QUOTE (striker @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 03:16 PM) 1. Kenny Williams job is to field a good team. After that it's up to the team to win. I don't fault Kenny for this team not winning. Do you think Theo Epstein or Terry Francona are at risk at losing their jobs? No. 2. Baseball is a game of peaks and valleys. It's the only sport where losing 62 games is awesome. We have to cope with the losses. This team still has a ability to win. 3. All you have to do first is win the division. The Cardinals won the central in 2006(?) with like 83 wins and won the world series. We suck right now but this division is still winnable. UGH.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 03:03 PM) That team exists with Bigfoot and the Tooth Fairy, or a couple of hunderd million dollars. Seriously White Sox fans are starting to sound like Red Sox fans with their "demands". Haha, whatever. I can think of quite a few teams that make the playoffs consistently and not all of them have payrolls of "a couple of hundred million dollars." All of these teams have made the playoffs more than the Sox in the last 10 years: Angels Athletics Twins Yankees Red Sox Braves Phillies Cardinals Cubs Astros Diamondbacks Dodgers Giants Hell, even the Indians, Rays, Rockies, and Padres have made the playoffs as many times as the Sox over the last 10 years. Now I might be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure the Sox have had the highest or second-highest payroll in the division in each of those 10 years. That is not good. And I hardly think it Red Sox-ian to expect better results. I fear you and others just have such low standards that anything other than a last place finish is acceptable.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 02:59 PM) It's disappointing to see but thus far Humber has done just fine. Peavy is coming back from a major injury and it's fun to pull for him the entire way - through ups and downs. It's a great story... Of course, it's hard at times but I'll take it on and keep pulling for him. I just hope that the bullpen finds it's legs / Ozzie makes the right calls down there. I think our offense will be fine and our starting pitching as well... So, I'm not ready to call this year over and start calling for peoples heads. We've got like 150 games left. Get ready for a nice win streak and for posters to start phrasing players It happens Yeah, it's a blast

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 02:11 PM) And how many times did we hear "The Cardinals only won 83 games and won the World Series" when we suck?

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 02:52 PM) Haven't had him all year, so what's the big deal? We've been lucky to have gotten out of Humber what we have. You're crazy if you think he can continue what he's doing.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 02:47 PM) I'm not normally the guy to do this, but this is absolutely the stupidest f***ing thread I have ever seen in my life. First of all, the initial post mentioned that this team has the same offensive problems that were only solved briefly in 2005. The 2005 offense was terrible. So what problems were solved? Will you go into detail? Were they not dependent upon the home run that year? I'd say 200 home runs for an offense that scored 741 runs says that they were extremely dependent upon the home run. In 2006, they scored 120+ more runs and hit 36 more home runs, but that's the team that had offensive problems. Get real. I'd say the defense will end up being, at the very worst, middle of the pack. Making generalizations 16 games into the season about how the entirety of a season will go is f***ing absurd. Alexei Ramirez is the best defensive SS in the AL, Gordon Beckham is solid, Morel has always been described as solid and 16 games isn't going to make my mind on that, Juan Pierre was great last year and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, Alex Rios is average to above average defensively, and Paul Konerko can pick it with the best. Konerko has no range, and both Quentin and Pierzynski are pretty bad, but that's about it. Enough has been said about the bullpen? Go into detail. You really think the bullpen is going to put up a a 5.21 ERA all year? I think Tony Pena MIGHT put that up, but I would bet considerable money that the bullpen's ERA is closer to a full run less than that at the very worst and wouldn't be surprised in the least if it ends up closer to the rotation's current ERA of 3.75. If you think that the bullpen is going to be bad all year based on the first 16 games of the year, then you don't understand that slumps and streaks occur in baseball. Oh, and if you are making conclusions about how the bullpen will end up based on these 16 games, then luck of the draw itself will even out and the Sox will win a ton of games with that 3.75 starter's ERA. If there is any team in the Central that needs to be panicking, it's the Twins. Their $180 million player is showing signs of becoming injury prone and perhaps already breaking down, their rotation is extremely mediocre, and the two relievers they thought were going to be good for them have shown huge signs of vulnerability - Capps gave up a home run in his appearance last night too. So what will happen? The Sox will probably end up going 4-7 on this road trip - which will put them at 11-15 on the year - and you will continue to freak out about the White Sox and you would have sworn that a swarm of locusts came over you and that you saw a few alien ships fly over head when nobody else has seen any other type of thing. The team will be torn down, tired, and ready for a break, and then they have 6 more games before they do finally get a day off. You will continue to exclaim these end of the world prophecies, even as the White Sox start winning games and move ahead of the sliding Royals. The end of the world is nigh! as the Sox continue to win games and move ahead of the fading Indians into 2nd place. And then sometime in mid to late June, the Sox will move into 1st place for the first time and people will remember this thread and several others like it and laugh and laugh. And then the second half of the season will be fun and entertaining and a bigger roller coaster than this. I think they'll end up winning the division, but if they don't, so what? It's baseball. Settle down. You missed the final part. The Sox take first place into August/September and the Twins, in spite of their injuries and less-talented team, end up winning the division again. I mean, if you're going to assume that the same things that have normally happened for the Sox will recur, you can't forget that part.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 19, 2011 -> 02:08 PM) There are a ton of White Sox discount codes out there. Hell they are all posted here. Next excuse... Put a consistent winner out there. Problem solved. Not a team that consistently plays just well enough to stay relevant until the final month, but a team that makes a playoff appearance at a decent clip.