Milkman delivers

QUOTE (gatnom @ May 20, 2010 -> 03:07 AM) Wouldn't make sense to trade him while his value is so low. I didn't say we'd trade him right now. They could sign this guy and trade Floyd later in the season or after it.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ May 19, 2010 -> 09:53 PM) KW said that all of the White Sox coaching jobs are safe. Rogers speculates that KW will take the fall before anyone else.http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ct-spt-0520-bits-white-sox-angels-los20100519,0,1873756.story If that is the case, I'm sorry to say that I'd be willing to fire Williams in order to get to the coaching staff.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 20, 2010 -> 08:16 AM) Jorge Posada to the DL for at least a month, going to have surgery to correct a hairline fracture in his foot. The Yankees can officially be added to the list of teams that could use a catcher. This bodes well for the White Sox.

QUOTE (FlaSoxxJim @ May 20, 2010 -> 08:03 AM) Heads up for anybody who will be in the UK this coming Solstice Day (June 21st). , with actual modern day druids coming out of the woodwork to be on site for the event. My wife and I went several years ago and totally by accident made the trip to Stonehenge on the Solstice. The guards who normally keep people away from the stones other days can make a special allowance to Solstice Day visitors and it's kind of a fun experience. Sort of like teh parking lot at a Grateful Dead show. Nice of the Undertaker to loan them out.

QUOTE (juddling @ May 20, 2010 -> 01:02 AM) Luckiest twins in the world???!!!! (pic NSFW) Actress Julie Bowen went on George Lopez's late-night show to brag on her twin one-year-old boys. She also bragged about the "double football" breastfeeding style she used to feed the tykes - and brought photos to illustrate! The "Modern Family" star said she had taken the same picture onto her appearance at "The View," but the ladies refused to air it. Lopez had no such problem on late night. A screen-grab from "Lopez Tongiht" with the snapshot in question follows after the jump, so you can decide for yourself. Wow, I never noticed that her jugs were that big. Also, it seems that Lopez Tonight is doing pretty damn well. I haven't watched it and have no support for that statement, but it just seems like it is getting talked about quite a bit. Is it doing well?

QUOTE (BaseballNick @ May 19, 2010 -> 05:08 PM) Revival by Rios Here's an encouraging article about Alex Rios and his fine start to the 2010 season. Matt Klaassen writes that Rios' production has reverted back to the mean, and that contract (once looking like an albatross) may not be so bad after all. With him playing an extremely good CF, I'd have to say the contract is looking good.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 19, 2010 -> 06:32 PM) Reasons to think MINN will come back to us...which also, of course, involve us playing better and the Tigers tanking a bit as well Since we're only up 2 games to the Indians and Royals, they better play badly as well. 1) Mauer has a bad heel (lingering problems) and only has 2 homers On the other hand, what if he continues to heal properly? 2) JJ Hardy is hurt, forcing them to play Punto and Harris more often Wouldn't they then play better when he returns? 3) Jon Rauch How badly do you think he's going to fall off? He certainly hasn't been bad for his career. 4) Mauer always is a little "touchy" with various injury issues (see 1, had to stretch it out to ten somehow) Like you said, stretch. 5) Liriano is coming back down to earth after starting 4-0 I'd say the chances are better that he gets hurt rather than he continues to decline. 6) Carl Pavano can't really be relied upon for a full season, can he? Wouldn't be the first time the Twins got a great season from a mediocre player. 7) Nick Punto in the line-up at any time (like our Vizquel/Kotsay) Doesn't this happen all of the time, every year? 8) Kubel isn't as good as he has been the last couple of seasons, same with Denard Span If we expect our guys to get closer to career numbers, shouldn't he? 9) They don't have Valentino Pascucci at 1B 10) Because I don't want to be bored the next four months like July-September 2006 and 2007 Sorry, sometimes it's fun to rain on another person's parade.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 19, 2010 -> 04:07 PM) A move like this for the Sox means either Danks or Buehrle is on limited time here. Or Floyd.

What the hell is a simulated game actually?

QUOTE (greg775 @ May 19, 2010 -> 01:55 PM) Jenks isn't in the category of being horrific yet, is he? I mean he's no Linebrink or Randy Williams? If Thornton is so much better, why don't they just reverse roles. I still wonder if Thornton was our full time closer he wouldn't blow some saves as well. Thornton is beloved on here, but once he blows a couple saves he'll be criticized as well I'd bet. I don't know if closer by committee works, but I do wish Thornton would close some games, especially those where he blows through the eighth inning and you can tell he's really on. On those nights, I don't know why you'd always go to Bobby in the ninth, considering Bobby has shown tendencies of shakiness the past couple seasons. Because you can't throw 200 innings as a reliever.

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 19, 2010 -> 01:21 PM) We have 1 good bullpen arm? Ok, whatever. As for your teams that have sustained a lot of success because of their farm system, I really fail to see how one could argue that the method preferred by the Twins and Angels has created any more success than the model we have employed. Name for me all the Angels' farmhands that have contributed to their major league success. The Twins apparently cannot build dominant rotations, which is why they never win playoff series'. The Phillies are definitely a team that has achieved success, however, I would argue that we are in the "golden age" of Phillies baseball right now, which has come about due to a combination of luck, skill, a new stadium, etc, rather than anyone being able to point to them and say "that is an example of a team that has been built from within." Let me ask you this, Milkman, who have been the two biggest culprits in our offense underperforming thus far, in your eyes? Yes, we have one good bullpen arm and a lot of what-ifs. Those were the two options you gave when referring to what a team needs. Thornton is our one good bullpen arm. Linebrink, Williams, and Jenks all suck right now. They're only what-ifs if they pull a miraculous season out of their asses now. Peña is hit or miss, and Putz is the same (although he's the closest we come to another sure thing). With Peña's history and the recent injury of Putz, they are both what-ifs. Santos has pitched 14.1 innings in his entire career for the White Sox. He's the definition of what-if. As for the Angels, all of these guys (and I realize a couple are recent departures from their team) were drafted or signed by them: Howie Kendrick, Kendry Morales, Mike Napoli, Erick Aybar, Ervin Santana, Joe Saunders, Scot Shields, Jered Weaver, John Lackey, and Francisco Rodriguez. That was just from a quick look over their roster. As to your statement regarding the Twins, while it is true, it really isn't relevant. The Twins were (and this is changing) a very low spending team and depended almost solely on their farm. The White Sox should be able to both invest in their farm and their major league team. If the White Sox had a farm system similar to the Twins and a payroll roughly equivalent to recent years, they'd be able to spend their money more wisely on free agents (even overpaying if necessary). You're comparing a cash-strapped team with a team that has been in the top ten in payroll for a while. With Pierre heating up, Quentin and Beckham have definitely been the main culprits for our offensive woes so far. Well, the DH crap, too.

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 19, 2010 -> 12:53 PM) Guess what guys? EVERY team outside of the Yankees/Red Sox and MAYBE the Rays has these kinds of questions to answer. These kind of holes to fill. These kind of problems that lie ahead in the not-so-distant future. EVERY darn one of them! Look at the bullpens around the league. They all have 2-3 good arms and 3-4 what-ifs. We have 1 good arm and a bunch of what-ifs. Almost every offense has players that will be leaving via FA or guys that may or may not perform to what they have in the past, or to what their pedigree might suggest. The only thing a GM can do is put a roster together that has a reasonable potential at some point in the near future to possibly win a World Series. He can't play the games for them. He can't prevent them from being injured. He can't will them to produce at or above career norms. All he can do is go off what they have done in the past, or what his scouts firmly believe he will do in the near future. I believe Kenny has done that with as much or more skill than just about any other GM in his tenure. Nearly every season, with the exception of 07' I guess, Kenny has put together a team that had the reasonable potential to be a playoff-caliber team. I also believe KW has done a pretty good job, which is why I think the coaching staff should go long before him. Take a look around at your organizations with the best farm systems, and point out to me those that have experienced sustained success from the pieces coming out of their system. The Rays? Off of the top of my head, you can also add the Twins, Red Sox, Angels, and Phillies I'm certainly not saying a good farm system is a negative thing, absolutely not. But it's not necessarily such an answer that suggests any more competitive certainty than the method we currently have been employing.

QUOTE (WCSox @ May 19, 2010 -> 12:39 PM) The Sox have the starting rotation to win, but that's about it. Jenks is no longer dependable, and he'll be gone next year. Thornton will most likely leave as a FA in 2012. Putz isn't dependable and will be gone next year as well. Santos is the only long-term arm that I'm excited about. Going into next year, we'll have mediocre offensive talent at every position besides CF, 2B, SS, and RF. Even Pierre's "meh" bat will be gone in 2012. Signing PK to an extension would help at 1B/DH, but the number of holes needed to fill is daunting. And we currently don't have the disposable income or minor league talent to do it quickly. In other words, the days of "retooling on the fly" are coming to an end. Damn it, you beat me to it. And you were clearer and more concise. You rotten...

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ May 19, 2010 -> 12:19 PM) I've already made up my mind on AJ. He's a catcher that's getting older and producing less. We can do better than that. No need to pay him a s***load of money to stick around. I agree. I'm just saying that I have no problem with the organization waiting to see if the team "puts it together" before then. When you decide to drop AJ, that's when you should decide to drop all of the excess baggage. QUOTE (scenario @ May 19, 2010 -> 12:30 PM) Why? It's not like we're not going to land a huge bounty by trading a guy in his walk year struggling to get north of Mendoza territory. Much more likely IMO that he'll play out the remainder of his final contract year in Chicago. To save money, and anything else is gravy.

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 19, 2010 -> 12:14 PM) Ok, I can respect that response. But what I want to see other than "trade away all of our valuable pieces for prospects" is some sort of long-term plan suggested. What is your goal in rebuilding? How would you like the team/franchise to be built? What kind of pieces would you like to acquire? What kind of organizations win in this league? What have they built that we have not? If you look at the recent history of championship teams in MLB, it becomes clear that they are teams built with a balance of a strong starting rotation, a solid bullpen, and a strong top and middle of the order on offense. As far as I'm concerned, the bullpen is pretty much a matter of having a dependable closer and 1-2 decent setup men to start the season, then fortifying that during the season with whomever steps up from within the organization combined with acquiring 1-2 arms at the trade deadline. I don't feel that we need anything other than another LH to solidify our bullpen, and maybe shuffling the closer's role. But the arms are, for the most part, in place. The starting rotation is also in place, as far as I am concerned. Peavy and Danks are probably our most dependable arms at this point, with Mark and Gavin struggling, but with a history behind them. Gavin has been a historically slow starter, while Mark has gone through periods of sustained struggles before. But to be completely honest, you're never going to be able to throw 4 arms out there that are really any more dependable and talented then these guys, unless you want to start pointing to the Braves' rotations of the early-mid 90's. Any rebuilding effort is MOST LIKELY not going to produce a stable of arms with any more potential and talent than what we already have there. The offense is clearly an underwhelming facet at this point in the season, but as we have discussed, there are talented pieces in that lineup that are simply underperforming right now. I think it is simply difficult to make a solid argument that 3-4 of these hitters are going to continue to float around the mendoza line. It just doesn't happen with professional hitters, especially those with the talent these guys have. I guess what I'm saying is I don't see a rebuilding effort yielding much better talent and potential than what we currently have in place. If I truly believed that this offensive core of Beckham, Quentin, Jones, Konerko, Ramirez, Rios, and AJ simply had no hope or no potential of hitting enough to win ballgames, I would concede and say overhaul the entire thing. But we have the arms in the rotation, we have the pen to hold leads, we have the talent there on offense - we just need the production to occur. And the production is ALWAYS the most difficult thing to predict. The way I look at things is, if things go fairly well with this roster, do we have a chance to win the whole thing? In my mind, yes, we do. And that's really all one can ask for. If I didn't truly believe that, I would say blow it up. I see where you find the positives. The rotation is something special (on paper, I'll note due to their performances so far) and it is unlikely that we'll see another like it on this team for a while. But when it comes to our bullpen and offense, the story is different. I don't find our bullpen to be too good. There's one great reliever (Thornton), one who might be great (Santos) , a couple decent (Putz/Peña), and a few terrible ones (Williams/Linebrink/Jenks). Our offense is filled with guys who are under-performing. It's certainly reasonable to think that they won't continue to play nearly as badly as they have. Konerko and AJ are probably gone at the end of the year (along with guys like Vizquel and Kotsay, who suck). Beckham will likely become a premier regular and contribute to this team for years, but I don't think that's the case with a lot of the other guys. I personally don't think Quentin will ever be the player he was in 2008, but rather one of those "what could have been" guys. I have no way of knowing this for sure, of course, but he's looking more and more like a walking injury. Ramirez will apparently take off the first two months of every year and continue to have ADHD in the field. Teahen...I don't know what to say...I have no idea why KW signed him to an immediate 3-year deal. He's a butcher in the field and a mediocre player with the highest potential of being an adequate defender and a slightly above average hitter. Jones, to me, is a pure one-year signing. If he does well, he'll use that season to get himself a nice, longer deal at a much higher price. If he fails and/or gets hurt (that's what I believe will eventually happen), then it was worth the risk for the Sox. Rios is another guy I believe in, and I think he can be a great player for us. Pierre brings some positives, and he is definitely heating up, but he's certainly not someone you depend on for the future and I would much prefer we didn't have him for another year. With the franchise almost certain to cut payroll next year and our situation likely needing us to replace a good amount of players, I don't think we can really put ourselves in any position to seriously compete. It's a shame to waste such talented starters, but it might be something we have to accept (and we can get some nice pieces by trading a few of the current players). We need to make changes in drafting and signing guys from overseas, developing the talent that we acquire, and definitely the coaching.

QUOTE (WCSox @ May 19, 2010 -> 12:13 PM) Hell, I agree with shack that Kenny should wait a while before committing to a firesale (I'd say at least another 30 days). But it's silly to chide people who, after a full month and a half of bad baseball, see absolutely zero evidence that this team will play competitively and understand the realities of our farm system, FA status of key players, and future payroll constrictions. Oh yeah, I'd have no problem with them waiting a little bit longer. They just have to make the decision before AJ's 10/5 rights kick in.

QUOTE (WCSox @ May 19, 2010 -> 11:59 AM) What if they're still playing like this after 60 games? Or let me put it another way: What evidence to you have that this team won't still be playing like this after 60 games? Was 79 wins last year an example of this team playing "like they damn-well should"? Even an impatient, clueless, video game-playing teenager can correctly recognize that Ozzie's lost his team and that Kenny's "retool on the fly" strategy is unsustainable and has run its course. It's time for this team to put up or shut up. If they don't start playing soon, we're looking at "The Kids Can Play 2" next year. As Balta correctly pointed out, the roster turnover alone will force a major overhaul. Even if Kenny gives PK an extension (which I think he should) and spends a little in FA in the off-season, JR has already made it clear that they're going to pull back on payroll next year. You're missing the point. There aren't ML-ready players in-house to step up and replace these guys. Flowers, D2, and Viciedo aren't ready, and all will go through growing pains when they are. Beckham is in a massive sophomore slump and, while I expect that he'll eventually hit like Robin Ventura, he may not become that player for a couple more years. So, at best, you're looking at more of the same next year. With ownership constricting payroll, FA spending won't be enough to cover the FA losses. While the Sox have done a phenomenal job of developing young pitching, their inability to develop young hitters is killing them. Quentin and Alexei have regressed over the past 2+ years. Viciedo, D2, and the others are all still at least a year away. When your post-30 veterans are ready to hit free agency and your young hitters either aren't producing in the bigs or are at least a year away in the minors, and you can't spend your way to the playoffs via free agency, there's no getting around it: You need to take a step back and rebuild. I've noticed that people are always willing to make changes, but it's always *insert random time in the future*, not right now. And then when that random time comes, for a lot of people it is suddenly wait until *insert new random time in the future*.

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 19, 2010 -> 10:58 AM) With the current economic landscape of baseball, I don't think that's the worst thing in the world, honestly. The market is vastly undervaluing veteran talent, allowing teams have a bit more turnover with less of a financial impact. The key to me is building a strong, relatively young core, and supplementing that with inexpensive spare parts from the marketplace. Replacing Konerko is a big task, but other than that, I don't view any of those losses as devastating or anything (although I sure wish there was a way to keep Andruw). Wait, this is the same guy who has played two half-seasons in the past two years. And based upon less than two months of baseball, you already want to sign him for 2011? Did you go to the Options menu and choose Injuries: Off on your playstation?

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 19, 2010 -> 10:39 AM) I'm not ready to make massive, wholesale changes after less than 40 games with this team playing together. Maybe you guys are, because you're accustomed to your video games or whatever. But remember, you start trading everyone away, you can't get these guys back. You can't erase your memory card and start the season over. I'm of the opinion that when these guys start playing like they damn-well should, we may be a small piece or two away from winning something rather than a piece or two away from blowing the whole damn thing up. In regards to that first paragraph, I really can't stand pseudo insults like that. I believe in rebuilding because I don't believe in your opinion stated in the second paragraph. I do not think that this team is a small piece away from being a real contender.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ May 18, 2010 -> 04:25 PM) Perhaps you haven't been paying much attention to the Sox this year. I haven't seen many people calling for his head this season. You have to get your potshots in somewhere.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 18, 2010 -> 01:40 AM) You're out of your mind if you think I read any of that slop. And I don't have anything against him. But I'll definitely go slit one of my wrists now that you've deemed him a better poster than me. No coming back from that. Just FYI, but his post is actually only about half of what he put together there. He pasted a paragraph from daggins, responded to it, and continued in that fashion.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ May 17, 2010 -> 10:12 AM) Its not even close to too late in the season for this team. We arent 20 games back and we should be. If KW can deal for a bat of some kind or if Q and Becks wake up, this is an entirely different team. We arent even out of April and most of you have given up, thats pretty weak. Na, just 8.5 and in fourth place. Sorry for being weak.

QUOTE (WCSox @ May 17, 2010 -> 09:38 PM) Well, it's really not up to me. I'm not Kenny Williams. And my feeling is that Kenny (who has never had a true "rebuilding" season in his 10 years as GM) probably isn't going to throw in the towel less than a year after acquiring Peavy and Rios, with a full year still on Mark's contract, and with guys like Danks still affordable. Even if the Sox lose the 96 games that they're on pace to, it's very possible that he goes for it one last time. And if that's the case, it's most likely that he stays with Ozzie & Co. for one last year for the sake of continuity. Players and coaches take time to adjust to one another, and a major shake-up would be disruptive. Either way, Kenny isn't going to fire an entire coaching staff during the season. It's possible that Ozzie's mouth forces him out and that Joey Cora takes over for a few months, but you can't realistically throw together an entire coaching staff in the middle of a season. That would be an absolute mess, and I didn't mean to imply that the coaching staff would go at the trade deadline, along with the players. Well yeah, I definitely wouldn't expect them to all get fired at once. I was thinking more like Walker is let go during the season, and then Ozzie/Cora/whoever else during the offseason. And whoa, I didn't realize the pace was that bad.

QUOTE (greg775 @ May 15, 2010 -> 11:55 PM) Where's Rongey been? Is he too busy workin or burned out on the cliche fire the manager type comments in the threads and the cliche criticisms of Ozzie for decisions made in games we lose? He's probably tired of defending a terrible team in his free time, seeing as that is also his job.

QUOTE (WCSox @ May 17, 2010 -> 08:30 PM) I see little sense in naming Joey Cora or some scrub from the minor-league system manager, and then replacing him and his entire staff this winter. Kenny's not going to find the manager that he wants and assemble an entire new coaching staff in the middle of the season. It's just that you said something about firing them if they are playing the same a year from now. I took that as meaning you wouldn't even fire them during the offseason, but rather start the 2011 season with them.