IlliniKrush

Well, you are just wrong. Laurence Holmes and Zach Zaidman (among others), neither of which called themselves a friend of Cutler (or really anyone a friend of Cutler) reported it. Who would you rather believe, TV producers with an agenda, or guys on the sidelines who not only see everything, but who's job it is to report facts? I know that's a rhetorical question, apparently. You are just trying to make s*** up to rip him at this point, saying everyone is just protecting him. You however have no proof of any of that. Now you are questioning the credibility of everyone in the local media, everyone in the organization, and doctors. OK then. Furthermore, if he didn't help whatsoever, in a make believe world, it has zero effect on the reason he came out of the game, which was due to INJURY.

I don't care what Barkley says, all he saw was the Fox 5 second clips. Which, mind you, a producer picks and chooses which clips to show. Don't think that had any play in it? You're kidding yourself if you don't think so. Sideline reporters, who are there the entire time within feet of these guys, said there was plenty of help, plenty of enthusiasm, etc. It's a fact, and it's not debatable.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 08:52 PM) I'm not being fair now? Come on... Jay Cutler is a warrior of massive proportions. He is the toughest man to ever put on the uniform. He is beyond criticism, beyond questioning, and anyone who dares to do so shall be told to retract such opinions. You aren't, but at least you aren't the only one. There are facts out there you are ignoring. You are only trying to twist stuff to help support what you hope to believe happened. Whatever. And actually, yeah, Cutler is a warrior.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 07:45 PM) Well unfortunately my opinion on what actually happened will never be substantiated because Cutler or the Bears will never admit that the guy quit, because it would ruin his career here in Chicago, and damage his reputation more throughout the league. You and others are acting as though there is some mountain of evidence on your side. But there simply is not. You've got an injury report that says he has an MCL tear and a history of getting up and playing after taking a pounding. I've got evidence of players in his same position playing several games with the same injury. I've got several of his peers questioning him. I've got a training staff that was sooo incredibly concerned about his injury, yet they would allow him to walk around with his incredibly damaged knee merely for the sake of making the Packers believe he could possibly return? I've got a guy who has a history of failure in the face of adversity. I've got a guy who mopes and sulks and then ultimately seems to underperform when the pressure gets dialed up. I mean maybe he cracked...I don't know. Either way, it's what I took away from things, and I am by no means some Cutler hater or someone who was "predisposed" to dislike Cutler. It's my interpretation of things. I stand by that. You've shown me nothing other than some MRI which shows there was an injury, which was stipulated to in the first place. They are supposed to admit something that didn't happen? There are also several players not playing with the same injury (anyone remember Jim McMahon's injury? Oops.). Peers questioning him? Not his team, who know the situation. Any jackass with a twitter account can post a "CUTLER'S A p**** GET BACK IN THERE" in about 30 seconds. WTF does that prove? We already explained that work was done on him and that he was able to walk around, and that just because you can walk, doesn't mean you can play. We have evidence of him going back in after he was basically deemed out. Your "history of failure in the face of adversity" applies to his first half of play, not the injury. What does moping and sulking have to do with anything injury related here? Which he didn't do on the sideline afterwards, contrary to what you want to believe in your 3 second snippets from Fox. Whatever, have fun thinking Cutler's a p**** or quit on his team, when all facts point to that being completely untrue. Just not being fair.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 07:31 PM) I told you exactly what I wanted. Why is it so important to you that you change my mind on this? I am doubtful that the injury is such that, had things been going a little differently, he would have been sitting out the second half. I have explained my reasoning for this in every possible manner I can think of. What more do you want? To burn your Cutler jersey, because that's about where you're at now

QUOTE (DrunkBomber @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 07:07 PM) Im not defending Rivers. That isnt an argument I have used because its a much different scenario. I was simply pointing out that it was a little misleading saying that link showed Rivers siding with Cutler. He flat out said he would play unless he was carted off the field. That isnt even close to siding with Jay. I agree with what you are saying. I just found it hypocritical of him to say he would have played, or whatever. Because, well he didn't. Yes I know he played the next week, but it's a bit different playing on a week's worth of preparation.

QUOTE (DrunkBomber @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 06:54 PM) Well I dont really see how saying what I quoted is in anyway "siding" with Jay. Hes just saying he feels bad for him. Hes also saying he would have played. Wasn't he already in a similar situation, and came out of the game? QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 06:55 PM) That's what would have bothered me most if I were a Bears fan. The guy was walking around with no discernible limp and didn't look like he was in any pain. If he was told that they were going with the backup I would have wanted to see him go nuts on the sideline telling Lovie that there's no way he's sitting this one out. I don't get this. The facts are out, there is indeed an injury. That should be all you need. Also, apparently he doesn't like to show pain, as he's one of the toughest guys on that team (this from people who cover the team). Furthermore, it was reported that part of the reason for him standing around not in crutches or whatever (though he didn't need them), was to keep the Packers thinking he was indeed "questionable return", though we all know now that was complete BS, and the Bears could have saved him and them some respect by coming out and saying he was not coming back that game, which they knew at that time. All fans do is talk about the s***ty o-line and how it will get him killed. And every week he has guys jumping on his head, pounding him into the ground. And he doesn't throw anyone under the bus and he gets up and keeps playing. But now all the sudden, he's not tough? And/or he quit? OK.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/articl...60b61b747ad06c1

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 05:33 PM) Honestly, I have defended him all year. And yes, I have watched all the games. In fact, I live out of town so I paid $300 to do so. I also was wearing a $300 Cutler jersey yesterday, so it isn't like I am someone who just dislikes him. I agree he has taken a beating this year, and he has done so admirably. As for his mopey face, I have watched enough Colts games this year to notice Peyton Manning usually wears a similar look on his face when things aren't going well. Maybe I am being too hard on the guy and asking him to succeed any more than he has in this situation is just too much to ask from him. Maybe no one could have answered the bell this season as well as he did. I guess we will never know. What I do know is that I wanted so badly for Jay to answer his critics yesterday. Trust me, when you walk around with that guy's jersey on in a town other than Chicago, you catch s*** for it. So it's not like I am not a supporter of him. Instead, what happened, is Jay played poorly in the biggest game of his life and then couldn't return to the game even though he could walk around the sidelines. Ultimately, that rubbed me the wrong way. I just wish he would give a crap about what people thought of him. I wish he would represent the organization in a better manner. I wish he would recognize he needs to be a leader, and that means doing things other than just on the field. But I guess he is who he is, and we aren't going to change that. We just have to accept it. THIS is what you should have been hammering on the whole time. And it's justified. He did return to the game after he had all the tests done on him and everyone thought Collins was going to take the first series. Just because you can walk doesn't mean you can play. He doesn't have to care about what people think of him. But ultimately, because everyone doesn't like his attitude, they found something to jump on him about, and they aren't going to let go. People aren't being fair here. You now have all in the information, showing an actual, significant injury, as well as reports about him coming back into the game even though he was told not to, and then ultimately not able to go well. It's just shocking that the facts are out there, and people won't get off it. I can understand people being super pissed off in the moment (Steve mentioned this) but now that the facts are out, you would think it'd be an easy call. Somehow it still isn't. LOL at MJD trying to say he didn't mean it. Today's stupid social media phase has made everything a "jump to conclusions" world, and everyone's worse off for it. BTW, for anyone questioning what Cutler was up to on the sideline as far as help/no help to the other QBs, Fox showing 3 second clips every 5 minutes doesn't really cover it. Sideline reporters who were watching this said he indeed was helping and encouraging. So put that argument to rest. QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 05:51 PM) I've been asking the same question all day. And it bothers me that I am not sure of the answer. That's pretty pathetic. If you aren't sure of the answer, that's just you still "not liking Cutler," not actually analyzing the situation fully.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 03:43 PM) Oh come on, just as I post in the old thread? Was going to comment on that. 86.19% is a pretty strong showing for us, I think. Seems pretty high compared to some of the recent years, though I don't know the numbers. Lot of home games next year (8, including 5 to start the year), so hopefully people will come out again.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 03:55 PM) Your outrage here is just ridiculous. Give me a damned break. There are people that have played with this exact same injury. Enough with the "wow...Just wow." nonsense. Defend the guy if you like all you want, it doesn't bother me. But to claim that this guy has some infallible history of being the extreme competitor is just so overblown. He is a mope, a dope, he has a reputation as such, and that's why everyone is questioning him. There is a reason this is happening, and it's not because everyone just wants to pick on Jay Cutler. I said it earlier and I'll say it again. The chickens came home to roost, and whether he could go or couldn't go, it's about time the guy changes his attitude and matures. Wow...again. Again, you're having a very hard time separating your "he's not a rah-rah guy" from the actual facts. I mean, you do watch games and watch him get the s*** beat out of him every week, right? Huge difference between "mope" and being tough. It's really stupid to pin it on him because he is "moping." Hell, ever think he's super disappointed that this is the game of his life, and he's too injured to play now? BTW, walking around is a far cry from playing in the game. Cutler's an effective QB partly due to the fact that he makes plays with his feet to keep the play alive. I wish the Bears would have ruled him "out" instead of questionable and put him on a stretcher, because everyone would have a different opinion. However, they did the "questionable" crap because they wanted the Packers to think there was a chance he was coming back into the game. That was also some of the reason for the walking, standing, anything-but-looking-dead look. This was according to Zach Zaidman today, who is on the sideline.

QUOTE (Controlled Chaos @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 03:49 PM) This guy has waited for this moment his entire life. He has lived and dreamed for this moment. He has had 5 pro seasons of bone crushing hits. He has had I think, 5 concussions, the last of which he continued to play anyway. He has never quit or taken himself out of any game in his life that we know of. But now in a game that can change his life. A game that every football player wants to be in. A historical game that is so big it will erase all his previous games..he decides to quit?? It isn't fathomable. This is what every player strives for and now that he's here you think he just decided to say aw f*** it...having a bad day, I'll sit. He didn't say aw f*** it in any meaningless game in the last 5 years, but now he decides to?? The arrogant QB who thinks he can come back from anything. The one who says...I'll show you I can fit that ball there. The one that doesn't need to worry about mechanics. He quit?? It's just ludicrous. It's not that I'm just disagreeing with quitter/not tough crowd, I just can't make any sense of it whatsoever. Well said. And if that's the case, he might as well retire.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 03:09 PM) Well, I've been saying it for the last two hours, but I'll say it again. I think he was injured. I think he was also moping and sulking. I think his poor attitude colored his decision on how injured he was and whether or not he could continue. Had the game been going more favorably, I think he would have done more to try and stay in the game. You should be able to differentiate the two things. Most people are piling on him because of how the perceive him, because he's not nice. If he was Tim Tebow, with the exact same injury, everyone would be OK with it and not question his toughness. QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 03:34 PM) Note the use of the word tear, rather than sprain. This is a reaction to the earlier diagnosis of a sprain. Secondly, I'm not sure I've seen anyone argue that Jay was not injured. The fact that it takes 3-4 weeks to heal says nothing about whether he could have played on the injury or not. Oh really, it doesn't? It shows it's a damn significant injury. QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 03:46 PM) Well, I wasn't trying to compare Rivers to Cutler, but rather to point out Rivers is the type of player I admire. Secondly, a torn ACL is far, far worse than a torn MCL, is it not? Regardless, he came out of the game. That was his whole point. *************** If you think he's not tough and that he just quit (based on the score or otherwise)...wow. Just wow.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 01:41 PM) Thanks, I probably have a better insight of medical stuff on this board (besides ptatc). To say the MCL is completely torn is wrong. I'd love to know what B&B have to say about this now. They completely disagree with basically everything you've posted. QUOTE (DrunkBomber @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 02:16 PM) Yes this is basically what Im trying to say. Its not just the "meatball" fans who are curious about why this injury kept him out. The group that is criticizing him more then anyone else are current and former NFL players, some of which have had similar injuries. I wouldnt have expected to hear anything different from the Bears camp but to me it sounds like the coaching staff is covering for him, which they should be. They are doing a terrible job doing so. I think they are doing this because they are stupid and don't know how, not because they don't want to.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 01:24 PM) An MCL sprain? Is that the final diagnosis? Wow. The Bears did him no favors by diagnosing it as such. Bears "fans" are going to be intolerable for the rest of the time Cutler is with the organization. I can't believe half the crap I've read and heard about this whole thing.

QUOTE (Swingandalongonetoleft @ Jan 21, 2011 -> 09:11 AM) Awesome stuff. Astronomy has been my favorite thing to learn and read about since I can remember. I actually re-read Hawking's A Brief History of Time this past fall. Amazing things happen out there, probably more than the mind can comprehend at this point. Skimming the thread I initially read this as "Hawk's A Brief History of Time." Then imagined how ridiculous a book actually written by Hawk labeled "A Brief History of Time" would be.

PSU just got screwed out of a game at Purdue by the refs out of bounds call with :05 left. Ouch.

Good call on the dump off baseline shots. Those seemed to have turned into the straight-on threes instead. Not sure why all those have disappeared, he was money from that spot. I wish this team had a Shaun Pruitt to help play inside. We'd actually have somewhat of a post game, and a better rebounding team. ****************** On a separate note...you don't hear much ISU chirping on here anymore.

Nice win last night. Good to see Davis going up to get some rebounds. I know MSU's thing is rebounding, but giving up 17 offensive boards? Not good. I'm also not sure how you win by making one field goal in the last 10 minutes of a close game. Weird. Anyway, we'll take it. I thought we'd find a way to jag it. Protect home court and try to win some games on the road...thus is life in the Big Ten. Big game Saturday. Never know what could happen if we come out and shoot well at home, which we have been doing. How many minutes will Tisdale play before Sullinger/Lauderdale foul him out? I have 11.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 12, 2011 -> 05:23 PM) WGN radio had it perfect. Uh, no

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 12, 2011 -> 05:00 PM) All you have to do is listen to the Stanley Cup winning goal call to know that... Well not really, no one had that one right. You just feel terrible for broadcasters when something like that happens.

QUOTE (farmteam @ Jan 12, 2011 -> 01:24 PM) "This is Indiana" music video. Fairly amusing, though I liked their earlier one better. Wow, that was awful. I like that they even got in a banner point, though.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 11, 2011 -> 10:01 PM) Watched the play closely 3 times now, and it doesn't look like an obvious travel. Heck, when Cole bobbled that ball under the hoop to tie it, I was expecting the ref to call a travel. Well he goes left, right...right. His right foot comes up and skips ahead and comes down again. It was obvious in live speed, actually. So yeah. Pathetic offensive effort. DJ, McCamey, Davis...anyone shows up, we win. Also, Battle please remove the horse shoe from your ass.

QUOTE (The Critic @ Jan 11, 2011 -> 02:56 AM) John Weideman is probably my favorite right now. I like John Rooney, but I never get to hear him anymore. Not a lot of national guys stand out in a positive way. He's really good, but no one talks about him. With all games on TV, and almost everyone having DVR, I don't think many people listen to Hawks games on the radio anymore. Years ago, it was the only way. It's a shame, because he's really good at it. Troy is pretty good with color, too. QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 11, 2011 -> 09:36 AM) I love the Pat Foley and Eddie O combo. I don't think there is any better right now. Pat used to be really, really good. Now he's just OK - makes a lot more mistakes, he's on the downside. Him and "Edzo" also joke way too much (especially Ed) and use stupid voices. I wish they would get back to focusing on the game more, because they could be better.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 7, 2011 -> 10:48 AM) Even better. But yeah, there are problems with the tail end of the lineup, but if they don't figure it out at the top, they aren't going anywhere. They need to make some hay with all these home games this month - 6 left, only 2 road. If they are still at the same spot going into February, it's going to be a large hill to climb.