heirdog

QUOTE(Damen @ Jan 5, 2007 -> 07:46 PM) If we were going for the higher ceiling Danks, then I grudgingly agree with the trade. However, if Danks is due to be no more than a lefthanded version of McCarthy, I don't quite see the point. We're sacrificing our rotation in 2007 for what, exactly? To give Gavin Floyd the opportunity to work out his kinks and be the 5th starter and add a power arm to the bullpen in Massett. Danks may help in the future and possibly have a higher ceiling but even if he is just McCarthy, he is a lefty on a team that currently boasts only one lefty, who will likely walk after the season. Floyd, for all his faults, keeps the ball down better than McCarthy and has some movement (sink) on his fastball. However, if you expected McCarthy to win 18 games and have a sub 3.20 ERA this year, then you will be disappointed in the results from our 5th starter this year. If you are realistic and expected 12-14 wins and a sub 4.80 ERA, then you might be satisfied. Its one thing to look back on McCarthy's run in the second call-up in 2005 and feel like we gave up a stud ace but that would be a mistake, just like writing him off for last year's woes out of the bullpen would be. The truth is somewhere in the middle and with his stuff, McCarthy would probably do a fine job winning a good amount of games for a team that has an offense to support most pitchers while still giving up a bunch of homers. The pro hitters would catch up to him and learn his tendencies and obviously if he is too stubborn to make any modifications, he would struggle even more. In any event, he may have won 14 games for the White Sox as the 5th starter and may win 12 with Texas as #3 but I'm not so sure that Floyd or whoever wins the 5th spot now can't do the same...given the offense we will have.

Let the Robert Valido era begin!

Sleeper: Carlos Vasquez Rebound player (formerly hailed as a top 10): Robert Valido Older prospect to have some impact with parent club soon: Casey Rogowski (lefty back-up OF/1B) to take place of Gload... Mackowiak will be traded (Fields is ready for 3B call-up if Crede gets hurt, Sox loaded with corner outfield prospects to back-up Dye and Pods in Sweeney/Anderson loser and Owens) if Rogo has a good spring.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jan 3, 2007 -> 11:46 AM) I like what KW has done to keep our team competitive and our payroll down, and with Gio, Danks and Sisco, we possibly could have 3 young dominant lefties in our rotation at the same time, which is kinda sweet. I wouldn't take Carlos Vasquez (from the Cubs deal) out of this equation either...4 upside lefties with solid stuff...so even if only 2 out of the 4 pan out, we will be in good shape. I also think Aardsma and Massett will be bullpen fixtures for the Sox now and in the future (Massett can eventually take over for Jenks too if he gets hurt, out of shape, too pricey, etc.).

QUOTE(toasty @ Jan 3, 2007 -> 12:12 PM) there really wasnt anything wrong with macdougal, he was just injured.... Yes. Cooper pretty much said the same thing when he was on the Score last week. He worked with Thornton but McDougal was fine when he was healthy.

I think Williams is searching for his Santana this off-season. So in 2008, he will disparage the Santana sweepstakes and let the Yanks/RedSox battle it out and we will see his genius with cheap in-house alternatives.

No way Mets give up Pelfry and Milledge or Pelfrey and anyone for Buehrle, Garland or Vasquez. So we might as well plug Buehrle into the rotation, get his solid performance over 2007 (contract year) giving us the best shot at WS title and let him walk (and get the draft picks). I know we want to plan for the short and long-term but its one thing to ask Floyd et al to carry the small load as a 5th starter and a whole other to ask Vaquez to be a 3rd starter, Floyd 4th, Haeger/Broadway/Danks/Gio to be a 5th. So unless we get a viable upside MLB-experienced starter and a stud prospect back (Heilman/Milledge?? Personally, I would turn this down), I think the White Sox are closed for business in terms of trading another SP.

QUOTE(shipps @ Jan 2, 2007 -> 05:05 AM) Iam starting to now feel that this trade will never pan out.I really like him as a lefty coming out of the pen,but to be a starter he will take a while to develop. What did you expect to get for Ross Gload??? Ross was a nice utility player and pinch hitter and all but...c'mon now, if Sisco even fails in his attempt to start in 2008 and remains in the pen (6'10" power lefty) forever, this trade will pan out.

1) Gio (2008 starter...future ace) 2) Sweeney (2008 starter in RF) 3) Danks (2009 starter...future 2/3) 4) Fields (2008 1B/DH/LF; 2009 1B/DH with Thome gone) 5) Massett (future closer) 6) Owens (4th OF/ trade bait) 7) Haeger (Long man in bullpen) 8) Broadway (Trade bait) 9) Russell (2009 starter...future 3/4) 10) Cunningham (Future star) Pitchers: 2007: Contreras; Buehrle; Garland; Vasquez; Floyd...Jenks (CL) 2008: Contreras; Garland; Gio; Floyd; Sisco...Jenks (CL) 2009: Gio; Floyd; Danks; FA; Russell...Massett (CL)

QUOTE(Finkelstein @ Dec 29, 2006 -> 11:21 AM) Here is Baldelli's contract from mlb4u.com: Contract: signed 3-year deal worth 9M thru 2008 season on 11/10/05- + the deal could be worth as much as 32M over 6 years- + he receives salaries of 2M in 2006, 750K in 2007 and 2.25M in 2008- + with 600PA in 2006, his 2007 salary can increase to 2.5M and 2008 salary can increase to 4.5M- + the deal includes a Team Option for 2009 worth 6M or a 4M buyout- + if 2009 option is exercised, then a dual 2010 Team Option worth 8M and 2011 Team Option worth 9M are added- + the 2010 and 2011 options must be exercised together- + if the dual option is declined, then he receives a 2M buyout- + if does not reach 600PA in 2006, then he can earn 1.75M in performance bonuses in 2007 (mostly based on PA) and 2.25M in performance bonuses in 2008 (mostly based on PA)- + 2008 salary can become guaranteed at 5M (w/out performance bonuses) if he reaches 600PA in 2007- + as part of deal, if he remains with Rays thru 2011, he will have donated 400K to Rays' charitable foundation Agent: Casey Close (negotiated 6-year contract by himself) (fired Scott Boras in July 2005) I'm sure that this is also attractive to Kenny. This and Ozzie's silly contract that he negotiated and signed himself prove that athletes should just stick to being athletes and let agents negotiate their deals. Baldelli, like Ozzie, got hosed. Also, if a rapper (i.e. Master P) approaches you to handle your contract negotiations, just say "NO." He is the one that negotiated Ricky Williams' first contract with the Saints that basically would pay him market value if and only if he reached some unprecendented numbers for carries, yds, and TDs...all for a top 5 pick. WTF?

QUOTE(beautox @ Dec 29, 2006 -> 09:34 AM) Jose must have sang pretty well or else those implants would have likely burst from the shrill of his voice.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 29, 2006 -> 10:33 AM) So if we send Anderson, Floyd or Danks, and another arm, does that change people's opinions of either the Garcia or McCarthy deals depending on which guy gets dealt? If we get Baldelli then Anderson is expendable so no worries there. I think you include a Sisco and Broadway, Massett or Floyd but not Danks, Gio, Carlos Vasquez or Rasner. I think the Whitesox were high on Broadway, Haeger, Lucas Harrell and Adam Russell prior to these latest trades so now it all depends on who they package from their recent acquisitions. If it includes Broadway, then you avoid one of the studs they just picked up. I hang onto the lefties (Danks, Gio and Carlos V) at all costs and ship some of the "power-armed" righties.

Effective junkballers like Buehrle (I am a big fan, mind you), can last in the league a long time by painting corners and bending (giving up hits but not runs) without breaking without much burden on their arms. Think Tom Glavine or Jamie Moyer as comparisons to Buehrle on the high and low ends of his career. Buehrle is still very young and has 6 years on his arm (but its more like 2 years for a power pitcher) so why wouldn't he get a 6+ year contract next year when he is 28?

QUOTE(striker62704 @ Dec 29, 2006 -> 10:12 AM) I also wonder if Kenny traded low for Garcia to the Phillies to put pressure on the Mets and drive up his other pitchers price. That would be dumb because the Mets wanted Garcia and he would want to drive up the price by getting the best offer possible. He probably did and the Mets didn't budge with Pelfrey and Humber so he went with Gio and Gavin as the next best offer. Also, if he wanted to put the Mets in panic mode, the impact would have been 8 years, $145 to Zito instead of coming to us and trading the above package for a lesser starter (i.e. Vasquez). Omar is aggressive but he is not stupid either. He came on sports radio here in NY yesterday and said his first and final offer for Zito was a 5 year deal and he wasn't going to the 6 or 7 year range that SF did. The Mets have been burned with the Kazmir trade so he wasn't about to let that happen again. I think the realistic package for a Vasquez would be Heilman and Milledge and I would pass. We might get one of Heilman or Humber and Milledge for Buerhle but Pelfry looks untouchable unless we give up a Danks or Gio along with Vasquez in return, which again I would pass. I get the feeling that Minaya would only part with Pelfry in a package for guys like Oswalt, Peavy or Halladay...and that ain't happening.

Bo Jackson? QUOTE(StatManDu @ Dec 28, 2006 -> 03:58 AM) Joe Cowley, 1986: Burly right-hander went 11-11 with a 3.88 ERA in 27 starts – following a five-player swap with the Yankees. … His last victory for the Sox was a no-hitter in a 7-1 win at California Sept. 19. … He was traded to Philadelphia the following March and his career quickly went downhill. After five disastrous appearances for the 1987 Phillies, Cowley was out of the game. He is the same guy as the Sun Times White Sox beat reporter?

I think Floyd will be filthy in Spring Training and win the spot. Haeger will be okay and get the bullpen role. Danks will start the year in AAA. The bullpen will be lights out with Jenks (100 mph), Thornton (97), MacDougal (99), Aardsma (96), Sisco (95), Massett (95) and Haeger (65) in long relief/ spot starter.

White Sox 96 wins Buehrle and bullpen back to '05 form, Contreras great for 1/2 year and okay for 1/2 just like '05/'06, Garland in '06 form, Vasquez better than '06 but not as good as late stretch run when he was pretty solid, McCarthy better overall year than Garcia but not the dominant stretch at end of year plus an injury mid-season requiring starts from Gavin Floyd). Cleveland 91 wins Bullpen woes but strong starters and solid run-producing lineup Detroit 87 wins Predict some injuries this year (Rogers without pinetar, Verlander) and defensive issues Minnesota 82 wins No Liriano and Radke but good bullpen and they always play hard KC 50 wins They suck and will continue (Ross Gload: 300 plate appearances!!!!)

Hughes = Untouchable Garland, Crede and Broadway will get you ARod (if he approves) and maybe Sal Fasano (backup catcher...aka FAT BACKSTOP). QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 14, 2006 -> 08:42 PM) I would, his only value is to us at this point. He isnt one of our top three, he doesnt have great stuff and he isnt major league ready. Caesar Carillo would have been nice

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Dec 12, 2006 -> 07:37 PM) Joe Crede has never had a 30 HR 100 RBI season and Joe is just as greedy as his agent, not that there's anything wrong with that. Do you have some inside information on contract numbers that Crede has turned down or are you indicting him based off his continued association with Boras?

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Dec 12, 2006 -> 08:36 PM) Thank God. LOL. Take it easy on the guy...astralPandas are almost extinct.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Dec 12, 2006 -> 03:27 PM) Crede is definitely overrated. Good player. Not God. Not better than Aramis Ramirez or even Morgan Ensberg. I agree Crede is a good player not God too but that doesn't preclude him from being underrated. Some people think he is an average player...he is definitely better than average. His glove is elite and his bat is good (he is very clutch so it makes up for some of the lower stats for all the number-loving guys).

No Otsuka, please! Danks, Hurley or Masset fine...but no Otsuka. While we're at it, no Osuna either....Ozuna fine but no Osuna.

Crede is not overrated, he is underrated...did not win Gold Glove?!? Boras is doing his job. Agents are around to maximize money, incentives, etc for their clients or else players would do it themselves. You can hate the institution of the "agent" as a job that has become very important in sports but how can you say someone that gets the most for his clients is a "jackass?" If you are an investor, you look for the best returns and find fund managers that can get you that so why wouldn't players do the same? I think Crede will be around in 2007 with another 1 year deal but will be gone next off-season. Cintron will be back as expected and our bench will be as strong as ever (Cintron, Mac, Ozuna, Gload back-up catcher, back-up CF/4th OF).

I think Gio will be in the rotation in 2008 as the lefty that replaces Mark Buehrle. He will go 12 - 7 in his rookie year with a 3.78 ERA but will spend some time on the DL, which will help some other player edge him out in the Rookie of the Year voting. He will win 16 games in 2009 and will win a Cy Young award once in his career (with the 2011 White Sox). He will go on to win 132 games in his career and will be traded to another team before the 2013 season.

QUOTE(chisoxfan79 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 04:17 PM) You know what if Kenny wants to think about the future he should call the Dodgers and see what he can get for JD because they are in the market for a corner outfielder with power I bet he could get Loney and Billingsly. If he trades Buerhle and Crede for ARod and Melky, you just might see this deal. Slot ARod in at Dye's spot in the lineup and get Sweeney, Fields or some other young players filtered into the lineup. There is no way that Dye takes another discounted deal and his value will never be higher than after his 2005 post-season and follow-up 2006 season so...KW probably has something more up his sleeve. QUOTE(bigruss22 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 04:32 PM) THat 2005 team was built on pitching, so i dont see why we didnt go after a guy like danks or another top flite prospect who could lead the rotation with broadway, mccarthy, haegar, mccuollugh, etc backing them up. I think KW believes that Gio is that guy in the mold of Santana or Zito. I bet he tried to get a Volquez (or Hurley, Diamond) and Danks from Texas but after signing Padilla, Texas probably balked. I think the Floyd and Gio trade is comparable to the one above. Gio is a stud...just wait and see.