RME JICO

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 13, 2005 -> 11:54 AM) The way I figure it is say Garland gets $8 million in arbitration. That is probably high but its still $3.5 million less than you would be paying Vasquez. Not trading for Vazquez then frees up a total of $16 million for 2007 considering Vazquez is scheduled to make $12.5 million in 2007. Unless they see something that would definitely make Vazquez a contender for the Cy Young, the trade would make no sense. I am sure the D-backs would pay a portion of the contract, KW is not going to do it straight up for that kind of money. If he was going to do that, he would sign Jon to a 5yr, $45 million contract and be done with it.

It would be nice to keep them, but this seems like a completely logical move. If Jon doesn't sign and bolts, the Sox get nothing in return. Hopefully this is just putting some pressure on Jon to make a decision. It seems now that if he doesn't sign a contract or extension he will be traded. I would rather trade for Zito, he had a down year and it would seem to be a fairly even trade.

Rumors and such go in the TW forum, thread already started: http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=44311

This guy is a horrible columnist and I can't believe he gets paid to write. He definitely has something against the Sox. He picked against them in every round of the playoffs, said Pods was the most overrated player, he hated the Thome trade, said Paulie was not worth it, and says the Sox won't even make the playoffs next year. No matter what the Sox do, he always takes the negative perspective. I am surprised he actually gave the Sox a B+.

It is not retroactive in the sense that they won't have to serve anymore punishment since they were increased. In reference to his and other positive tests, I don't remember seeing anything saying that their previous positives would be removed. So if he got hit a second time, he would have to serve the 2nd positive test penalty (100 games).

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 31, 2005 -> 01:41 AM) I would rather have Macowiak. WTF This was a great call! Your wish has been granted!

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Dec 12, 2005 -> 07:53 PM) You know what? f*** this guy. You have an opportunity to play professional baseball for a living, coming from virtually nothing, and you piss it all away with drinking problems. These guys don't belong in professional sports. I hope he doesn't catch on anywhere. I agree 100%. It kills me to see guys like this or Jamal Lewis making millions after serving jail time for felonies and such. Great role models!

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Dec 12, 2005 -> 07:41 PM) Oh, I see what you mean. Actually, I'd like that a lot. PHT, TW, ATH, and FSB all under the Sox Baseball Headquarters. This would eliminate clutter and the site would be more organized, furthermore, eliminating double posts.........hopefully. EXACTLY!

Both points taken, but if you think it would become too diluted, make Trade Winds its own forum since it is already a sub-forum. There is not real value having it in PHT. Right now it is too ambiguous having Trade Winds in the PHT, since it can be related to all teams. That is what the ATH forum is for. Instead of going back and forth between the two, compromise and make a Trade Winds and Rumors main forum.

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Dec 12, 2005 -> 06:34 PM) Duly noted. I noticed the same thing before. Maybe if we relegated non-ChiSox rumors to ATH, or maybe even had them there too.... Yeah, moving the entire TW to ATH would probably cut down on 90% of the duplicates. Most people post Sox related stuff in Pale Hose anyway, and all the other stuff always gets split between TW and ATH since they are in 2 different forums.

A lifetime 3.95 ERA pitching in the NL will equate to about a 4.5 to 5.0 playing in Texas against AL teams. So this is basically Kenny Rogers vs Vincente Padilla.

I just have one recommendation. Is it possible to put the Trade Winds sub-forum in the Around the Horn forum, or rename the Trade Winds to be Pale Hose specific? For some reason half of the people post info in the Trade Winds and the other half post the same exact thing in the Around the Horn. I know that is why the moderators merge the posts, but this happens on almost every news post that hits the internet. There seems to be some confusion on where to post. Just an observation, and sorry if this is in the wrong forum.

I agree. Tejada is a better hitter than Uribe, but after that he is just average. Uribe is really under-rated at SS, and since he provides exactly what the Sox want at that position, why downgrade other areas to do it. Also, there is the whole economical aspect of this scenario. The Sox cannot handle anymore huge contracts without gutting the nucleus of the team. After winning the WS, all they need to do is address their weaknesses without affecting the strong areas too much. Finally, why would you want someone who wants out when they lose? If the Sox get in a rut and go on a 4-5 game losing streak, is he going to start requesting a trade, or take a couple of games easy like he did last year? September Stats - - - -HR - RBI AVG OBP SLG OPS Tejada 1 - 11 .265 .317 .368 .685 Uribe 7 - 16 .304 .379 .641 1.020

QUOTE(mmmmmbeeer @ Dec 12, 2005 -> 10:19 AM) Agreed. But.... we've seen Joe and his personality, my impression is he doesn't like big changes. I think if given the choice of the same money here or elsewhere, he'd want to stay here. So, if he keeps Boras it's because he has somehow gotten the impression that the Sox would lowball him on a contract offer. That's the only reason I can see him staying with Boras. I don't know what's given Joe this impression, I think the Sox have been VERY fair with players we've signed as well as the offers made to players we didn't sign. So, if Joe thinks he'd get a fair offer and wants to stay in Chicago, he'd dump Boras, IMO. The player decides what he wants to get, not the agent. So the only time there would be an issue is if the agent convinces the player that he is worth more money or years than he is being offered. Player gets more money, agent gets more money. This is then backed up by external offers or where the agent compares the current offer with other similar offers around the league. I agree that the Sox are not in the business of lowballing, they normally give the fair market rate to players, but they also do not over pay anyone, and that is where the problem lies. If Boras convinces Joe that he can get more money, then it is up to him to decide. The bottom line is he is not going to dump his agent just to stay in Chicago. If the Sox make him a fair offer then he stays, if he feels like it is undervalued, then he goes.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Dec 11, 2005 -> 04:56 PM) I say we go to the XFL rules and allow players to put whatever they want on their back. Joe's name can be "He K Me" and his number will go up for each strikeout he gets. That would be awesome!

This is a longshot. I highly doubt Manny would play for them, especially if Tejada doesn't want to.

Thats all we need. A player that wants out because he is on a losing team. He signed the contract, honor it!

QUOTE(drowninginflame @ Dec 10, 2005 -> 06:43 PM) People kept calling me and telling but I am in the Sox pride dvd talking about Cleveland on opening day. I think thats pretty f***in cool. Thats pretty cool; what did you say?

QUOTE(gosox41 @ Dec 10, 2005 -> 06:17 PM) It's good to see the Sox address their offense, but they shouldn't ignore the pitching. Here are the biggest concerns I have in that area: 1. Health of the starters. El Duque will spend time on the DL next year at some point, I can almost guarantee it. That means McCarthy moves in the rotation. Fine. But what happens if one of the other guys goes down? Garcia had a tired arm last year and is pitching in that baseball thing in March. Buehrle has been healthy but has pitched a ton of innings. Jose needs to build off his strong second half and not have any set backs. Garland seems like them most likely guy to stay healthy. The Sox were lucky with injuries to their pitching staff last year. Hopefully it continues, but who wants to find out when it's too late (ie during the season) that the Sox need a pitcher and are SOL? One solution would be to have Cotts work on extending himself more and more. Something tells me the Sox will need more then 6 starters in 2006. I hope I'm wrong. 2. There's only one lefty in the pen. I assume this will be addressed by spring training. 3. Hermanson. If he's healthy it's huge. If not, then it's a big concern as he was a very good reliever. 4. Jenks-I think he needs to learn a third pitch. the fastball is great, but the league may adjust. His curveball is awesome, when he has control. It can't hurt to add to the arsenal. I've heard others say that Jenks fastball doesn't lack movement. He either needs to get more control of his curve or find a third pitch to continue his success. Bob I understand your concern, but the Sox pitching is a strength and it only needs minor tweaking (see Marte). I cannot even think of a team that will start with 6 quality starters on their roster like the Sox, and I see this as a positive. El Duque won't be on the DL if he is not the 5th starter and he is only coming in for long relief or an occasional spot start. I wouldn't be too concerned about innings, there were a ton of pitchers with 200+ innings. The only 2 remaining issues would be a 2nd Lefty (hopefully addressed before ST) and Hermanson's health, but a good couple of months off should do everyone good. They also said that the World Baseball thing will have a pitch count limit so this will be very similar to what they would be doing anyway, just in a game environment.

What was wrong with this thread: http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=43053 Can you merge polls?

QUOTE(Felix @ Dec 10, 2005 -> 12:13 PM) And thats true, but thats not what this poll is asking. Its asking, no matter how unrealistic it is, if Frank Thomas and Jim Thome were 100% healthy for the entire 2006 season, would you rather Frank and Aaron or Jim and Anderson? Jim and Anderson.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Dec 10, 2005 -> 12:13 PM) Both healthy, probably Frank & Rowand simply because Thomas is a guy people still fear and indicated by his walk numbers, plus he strikes out less. A true #3 hitter in the sense. Walks would be a bad argument for Thomas vs Thome. Thomas Walks 1999 - 87 2000 - 112 2001 - 10 2002 - 88 2003 - 100 2004 - 64 2005 - 16 Thome Walks 1999 - 127 2000 - 118 2001 - 111 2002 - 122 2003 - 111 2004 - 104 2005 - 45 The only thing that Thomas beats Thome in is Ks. Thome strikeouts out a lot more, but he still has a lifetime OBP of over .400. That is pretty good considering his Ks.

I love the Frank Thomas of 1990-2000, but it is going to be 2006. I just don't see that Frank coming back. There are too many variables and things going against him. All he has to do is roll his ankle once and his career is over. That is like playing Russian roulette. It is not a matter of if but when.

The "100% healthy" statement doesn't make this even close to realistic. It would be better straight up in their current conditions and the current available information. Also, what 100% healthy Frank are you talking about, the one from 1990-2000, or the one since 2000? Frank has meant so much to the Sox organization, but it is hard to justify keeping him around after looking at his numbers over the past 5 years due to injuries: 2001 - 21 games - .221 BA, 4 HRs 2002 - 148 games - .252 BA, 28 HRs 2003 - 153 games - .267 BA, 42 HRs 2004 - 74 games - .271 BA, 18 HRs 2005 - 34 games - .219 BA, 12 HRs Only 2 years over 100 games played, and only one over 30 HRs. Thome over the same period: 2001 - 156 games - .291, 49 HRs 2002 - 147 games - .304, 52 HRs 2003 - 159 games - .266, 47 HRs 2004 - 143 games - .274, 42 HRs 2005 - 59 games - .207, 7 HRs 5 years over 140 games played, and 4 seasons over 40 HRs. Thome and Anderson.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Dec 10, 2005 -> 07:24 AM) That arguement only goes so far. You've heard of situational hitting and clutch hitters? Well, there are situational and clutch pitchers as well. Jack McDowell was one of those guys. If the Sox gave him 5 runs to work with, he would very easily give up 3 or 4, yet if they needed a shutout to win the game, McDowell was good about delivering under those conditions as well. Garcia is an example of a situational pitcher also. The bigger the game, the better he pitches. It's more than just straight ERA vs Win totals. ERA and Wins are both overrated. Just like you said ERA can get bloated when there is run support and can be lower with no run support, and wins is directly related to run support vs ERA. That is why it is better to judge a pitcher by what he does vs the batter. WHIP is an obvious one, and another stat is Total Bases per IP. This counts HRs as 4, etc, etc, walks and singles as 1. So guys that give up a lot of HRs or extra base hits will obviously have a higher TBIP. The number is normally close to WHIP but has some variation with the addition of extra base hits. In reference to the Central, it will be the Sox, Indians, Twins, Tigers, then Royals. The Sox and Indians will probably end up with about the same records from 2005; the Twins will be about the same, the Tigers will be a little better, and the Royals will lose another 100 games.