Felix

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Apr 8, 2011 -> 12:45 PM) Anybody ever look at John Hollinger's Twitter feed? He basically just rips Derrick Rose on it a few times a week, and then last night he was on there saying Rose is 6th in his mind for MVP while he also bragged about not watching the game. How the hell does a guy like that have a paying job at ESPN? He's basically just an advanced metrics dude. And, while such things work really well in an individualized game like baseball, the same cannot be said for basketball. At all. Any statistical category that says Derrick Rose is the 6th most valuable player really should just be laughed at. When you say "rips Derrick Rose," do you mean says that he's a really good player, but isn't the MVP of the league because the Bulls success is more dependent on their defense than Rose? Because I don't really understand what's so wrong about that. I agree that advanced metrics aren't perfect in basketball, but to ignore them because they don't agree with your opinion is just as stupid as old-timey baseball people ignoring Jeter's obviously deficient defense because their eyes say otherwise. Hollinger watches plenty of basketball and doesn't just stare at numbers all day. He uses the numbers to supplement his basketball interest and help give a better all-around view of a player/team. And because I can't help myself, why are all Bulls fans so damn defensive about everything related to their team? I've tend to notice this with anything related to the Bulls, not just the Rose/MVP talk, but someone said Rose wasn't MVP, big deal. Just about everyone else still thinks he is. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, why do you guys seem to always go apes*** when other people don't think the same thing as you?

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Mar 31, 2011 -> 04:14 PM) i dont think we should be doggin Kevin Loves game, he is playing with a sore groin and the original plan was for him to miss the rest of the season. Last nights version of Kevin Love was not the rule, it was the exception. you could tell his burst was gone when Omer and Deng were blocking him This was never the plan. Never ever never ever, and I don't think you actually read the quote that said there was AN OUTSIDE CHANCE that he might miss the rest of the season. OUTSIDE CHANCE. As in, yes, if Kevin Love gets a setback and his groin doesn't heal normally, he'll miss the rest of the season. Love had 16 points and 9 rebounds in 26 minutes. Extrapolate that over his standard 36 minutes a game, and he's sitting at 22 and 12.5. Not quite his 20 and 15, but let's not pretend he got completely shut down. He didn't get his normal numbers because the game got out of hand and he sat. That's pretty much it.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 31, 2011 -> 09:20 AM) I finally paid attention to the kid last night, and all I have to say is Dennis.Rodman. This kid has zero offensive game. He is an incredible rebounder and hustle guy, and pretty much nothing else. Its pretty bad when the TWolves won't even run a play for you. Yes, one of the most efficient offensive players in the league right now has no offensive game. Good call.

"Oh my god, this media member who likes to sensationalize things said that a small point guard who shoots too much is just like this HOF caliber other point guard that shot too much! But the first one isn't selfish at all, all of the numbers just disagree because stats are stupid!" That's basically all I'm hearing. Look at the numbers, the comparison to AI (on the court) is a fair one, and one that Bulls fans should LOVE to see. AI was a hell of a player, someone that you should hope Rose can be as good as. The point about wanting his own fame is something that wasn't in that video you posted, and I don't really have an opinion on it one way or another. Also, before people start b****ing about Laimbeer's comments about Rose and Jordan, he said nothing wrong. The comment saying he "didn't care about either of them" isn't great, but what do you expect from a former Piston during that time? The rest of the quote in these articles wasn't wrong in the least, and wasn't really critical of Rose.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 30, 2011 -> 08:39 AM) A 20 foot jumper is rarely a good shot, but Rose has been up and down with the 3 ball. He hit 2/4 against Sacto and 6/8 the game against the Hawks. He had a cold streak early in March, a couple really good shooting games, then a couple down games. I'm sorry, but I really don't understand what point you're trying to get at here. That below average shooters can have good games? The initial post was dead on. Rose shouldn't shoot the distance shot at much as he does, especially given his ability to get to the rim. He's not a good enough shooter to do that.

QUOTE (MexSoxFan#1 @ Mar 29, 2011 -> 11:42 AM) http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=6269330 This guy just won't stop...DR1 isn't Iverson and LeBron isn't MJ you douche bag. DR1 shoots too much right now because we have no SG, when we get one, you'll see Rose shoot less. Why is it some severe insult for Rose to be compared to Iverson? Iverson was a hell of a f***ing player. A little inefficient offensively, sure, but guess what? So is Rose. Nothing he said in that clip was overtly wrong, unless you're getting pissy about his opinion that Rose won't win 6 titles, in which case you need to wake up and smell the roses.

On the plus side, at least Rose got a double-double... right?

QUOTE (chw42 @ Mar 27, 2011 -> 10:41 PM) It's not just that site. I'm also not the one checking it. People post links to the site and quote it, which interests me enough to read it since it's usually wrong. Well, anyone who actually reads Bleacher Report and thinks it's worth the time isn't really worth reading in the first place. Especially if they're citing Bleacher Report in whatever posts they're making. It's an awful site and shouldn't be given a second thought. THE ONLY worthwhile part about it is how hilariously bad some of the posts are. My personal favorite, which is also the last time I've read more than 2 sentences from a Bleacher Report article: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/510665-...ation-continues But you can't really take a logical stance for or against that sort of thing. You can just sit there and laugh. Anything else would just be a waste of your time, much like refuting the points you're currently on a warpath against. I mean, good for you that you can continue to do it, but at some point you have to just give up and laugh at their stupidity. I quit that fight ages ago, as noted by my lessening posts in Pale Hose Talk.

Thread does not deliver zzzzz

QUOTE (chw42 @ Mar 27, 2011 -> 09:45 PM) For the sake of everyone, can these amateur writers on Bleacher Report and so many other blogs stop comparing Derrick Rose to the likes of Russell Westbrook and Kyle Lowry? PLEASE, STOP! 1) It makes you look absolutely basketball-stupid in the eyes of those who don't care for advanced stats - and that's a lot of people. 2) It doesn't make sense to compare Kyle Lowry to Derrick Rose, it just doesn't. Win Shares doesn't back your argument, PER doesn't back your argument, stop trying to find crevices in the world of flawed metrics to make a stupid point. We get it, D-Rose isn't as good as some people think he is. Big deal, that doesn't mean you can go out and make a horrible comparison. 3) If you want to use advanced stats, quit sprinkling in that Westbrook and Rose have similar ordinary numbers (like shooting percentage, assists, etc). If you want to do a real advanced analysis, do it with actual advanced metrics. Talking about how Westbrook and Rose average around the same number of points and assists like it means everything is like saying Delmon Young and Adam Dunn are similar hitters since they were 10 RBIs apart last year. Like Stacey King would say...STOP IT! It just infuriates me that some of these writers are doing terrible things with statistical analytical writing. If you want to have a case against Rose, that's fine. But don't clown on him with child's play and pretend you know something. *Rant over. There's an easy solution to this: stop reading Bleacher Report. It's easily one of the most worthless sites on the internet.

QUOTE (joesaiditstrue @ Mar 26, 2011 -> 02:07 PM) In case you guys missed this, you definitely need to read the whole article. This pretty much solidifies why Rose is the MVP over Howard. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/643843-...tear-their-eyes and CHW42, I totally agree with your commenta bout Howard at the end of games. He's a black hole and the ball is kept away from him because of the fact that he can't hit free throws. Howard is a weakness at the end of games, Rose is a huge strength. imagine when Rose learns the PNR with Boozer? Well, I mean, if it's said on BLEACHER REPORT, it must be true.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Mar 25, 2011 -> 08:55 PM) Isn't Rose one of the more efficient players in the NBA? Uh, what? He takes 20 shots a game and gets 25 points, that's not efficient.

QUOTE (Real @ Mar 25, 2011 -> 08:44 PM) Rose the Chucker tonight, like 4/20 with a few TO as well Joakim Noah must have great position down low tonight

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Mar 25, 2011 -> 03:46 PM) Such a silly conversation for someone who has watched nil Derrick Rose this season to be chiming in so loudly about him and the Bulls. At least when I craft my educated response on Kevin Love, that's got a lot of meat behind it because I watch a lot of NBA Gametime and any late games that are on that network. Seriously, Felix, that's all just weak sauce from you, bro. I've watched plenty of Bulls highlights, but tend to avoid significant parts of real-time games as I get my fill with Wolves games. Only reason I've chimed in on this (or just about any other non-Wolves related topic) is because there's only one other non-Bull fan that frequents these parts, and someone has to be the devil's advocate. Dwight is having a hell of a season and deserves much more credit than he gets from the regulars in this thread and the national media. I think a strong case can be made for him as MVP, and obviously no one else was going to make it in here (save for DBAH0). QUOTE (RockRaines @ Mar 25, 2011 -> 03:59 PM) LOL, baseball analogies and Kwame Brown in the same post? The point is that people who play or have played the game are often too close to it to really analyze it without a certain bias. That's true in any sport and any league. The Kwame Brown bit was a joke than more than anything.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Mar 25, 2011 -> 03:27 PM) Which is why you are pointing to stats as an indicator of a deserving MVP candidate. Teams change their defense based on Rose just as much as Howard. In fact alot of teams will let Howard get his while just worrying about the other players. There is a reason that most of the star players and the greatest player of all time voiced their opinions in favor of Rose. Most likely because they've seen more than 5 games. Just like all those baseball purists that have vehemently defended Derek Jeter's defense over the years Baseball is obviously a much more individually based game than basketball, but stats are there for a reason. There's no problem with supplementing what you see with statistical evidence, and the thought of ignoring them all together is just ridiculous IMO. Also, Michael Jordan drafted Kwame Brown. There goes that point..

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Mar 25, 2011 -> 02:55 PM) How many Bulls games have you watched this year? Probably about the same as I've watched the Magic.. 5 or 6 games? I'm generally too busy watching a terrible team play instead

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Mar 25, 2011 -> 02:52 PM) Well, yeah, but D-Rose was being talked up as MVP prior to the ASB, and you said the Spurs are better by "quite a bit". You didn't even say "slightly better" or "might be better". So what you did was you typed without having any idea how the Spurs have been playing of late. Eh, I knew the Spurs had lost to some good teams lately, and I knew Duncan's injury meant little as he'd be back for the playoffs. Losing at Denver, at Miami and against the Lakers doesn't really tell me all that much, especially when factoring in a win at Dallas and at home vs Miami.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Mar 25, 2011 -> 02:50 PM) Is the MVP the player making the biggest difference to his team and "most valuable" or just the most talented player in basketball. If it's the former (my interpretation), then it's Derrick Rose in a landslide. If it's the latter, it's Lebron. I don't see where Dwight enters into the conversation... and it's just hard seeing the MVP award being dulled out to the best player on a team that keeps declining. If it's the former, then I'm giving the nod to Dwight. He changes everything about the games Orlando plays. Their whole system is built around him offensively, and defensively he shuts off the paint from anyone on the other team. DBAH0 watches the Magic way more than I do, but every time I see them play, there's no doubt to me that Dwight significantly changes how both teams approach the game.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Mar 25, 2011 -> 02:44 PM) I guess I worded that pretty s***ty. I think the Bulls have been better LATELY, but the Spurs have been the best team in the league OVERALL. Voting awards based on the final two months of play seems stupid to me, so I'd rather use the full season in those situations.

Whoops, my bad. Didn't realize we were only counting one month of play. I retract everything I have ever said. The Bulls are a great team and have been the best team in basketball since the All-Star break. But Rose shouldn't be MVP just because his team is playing well when there are other candidates who are more statistically deserving on damn good teams too.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Mar 25, 2011 -> 02:23 PM) Rose is the best player on the floor in every game the Bulls play. Best team, best player, MVP. Except the fact that the Spurs are a better team than the Bulls by quite a bit. So why isn't Manu getting all the talk? Of course, I think that logic is awful in the first place, but that's beside the point.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Mar 25, 2011 -> 10:31 AM) Haters gonna hate. I love this Bulls team. They have great personalities, great team players, and a great hometown superstar. I grew up with Jordan's Bulls... I was 8 when they won their first Championship. I didn't get to see them becoming great, they were just the great Bulls I loved to watch with little actual understanding of the greatness I was watching... the second three-peat I obviously understood the greatness, but had no way to appreciate it. Being a huge Bulls fan, and a connoisseur of the NBA since Jordan left (and one of the many Bulls fans who suffered through the likes of E-Rob, Jalen Rose, Brent Barry etc, and got excited when our Curry/Chandler/Hinrich/Gordon team was good enough to finally make the playoffs)... this season has been a shockingly incredible surprise in a league that doesn't normally lend itself to surprises. I'm enjoying the hell out of this run, and really enjoying the fact that the team is only improving as the season moves along. The Bulls have as good a chance as anyone to win the NBA Title just months after the Miami Heat were prematurely celebrating the NBA title. Every game is a treat, and I recommend everyone sit back and enjoy the ride. This is a truly original storyline in NBA history. If this team does manage to win the Championship, it will unseat any of those Jordan teams in my eyes in terms of being MY team... if that makes any sense. I'm happy that the Bulls are doing well this year, and they certainly are having a fantastic season. No one expected them to be this good this year, and it's been amazing to see. I'm really looking forward to their trip to Minnesota on Wednesday, if only because I think they're a really fun team to watch. But none of this gives any reason at all why Rose is a better candidate for MVP than Howard. Rose is having a great season, and I don't think anyone is trying to take anything away from that, but there is a very real, a very deserving case that can and should be made for Howard as MVP.

Derrick Rose is having a very good season, and the Bulls are an excellent team. That's reason enough why he'll win MVP. I don't think he's the most deserving candidate statistically, but I don't think anyone really gives a s*** about the statistical difference between him and Howard (which is really stupid IMO). They look at the teams and leave it at that. All in all, I think that Howard impacts the game much more than Rose does, and given his statistical edge over Rose, I think Howard deserves a lot more talk than he's been getting. I don't think anyone is saying that Rose isn't having a good season, but I certainly think it's fair to criticize his game, which most Bulls fans treat as treason. Also -- and I'm likely going to take a lot of heat for this but whatever -- all the talk about Rose improving his three-point shot is overrated. Yes, it's better than it was last year. But no, it's still not good and he still shouldn't be taking nearly five a game. I don't care what you tell me about how many he's made, he's a below league average three-point shooter that shoots as if he's elite. He's not. Stop using this as a point for his MVP candidacy. It's stupid. I also really don't buy the argument that was brought up a few pages ago (from Bleacher Report of all places, talk about a credible source ) that Rose shoots more because he knows he has Noah and Boozer below the basket. It's bulls***. Rose shoots because he's a scorer. It's his mentality. The fact that he has Noah rebounding for him doesn't have a significant impact on his shots per game. It's like saying Carmelo Anthony is going to shoot more if he has a good rebounding big man. Bulls***, he's going to shoot 20+ times a game REGARDLESS of his teammates. Maybe there are one or two plays every now and again where he might toss it up carelessly because he has a guy in position under the basket, but that's not going to have a significant impact on his shots per game average to hold any water. Rose is having a fantastic season, and the fact that only four(ish) other players in league history have ever had his points, rebounds and assists averages or better over a season is a pretty ridiculous stat (although also cherrypicking, but that doesn't mean it's not impressive). But if we're talking about the player who has had the best season and the biggest impact on the games they play, the answer is Dwight Howard.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Mar 24, 2011 -> 11:32 AM) We're at the exact same place in the series and yeah, that was a pretty tough pill to swallow. Grow a pair and keep watching, p****

Anthony... Randolph? What?