southsider2k5

QUOTE (bmags @ Sep 1, 2016 -> 11:53 AM) I have 100% confidence that if we assume our budget can increase by no more than say, $130 million, we will make the playoffs faster selling Chris Sale and Nate Jones than if we kept our current roster and tried to wait for our current farm, trades and FA to get us there. For all the talk about how boston wasn't close in their proposed Q offer, I'm pretty sure we'll look back in 3 years and say "OMG we could have had Benintendi, Kopech and others!" While there are certainly exceptions, I feel like it is way more often we look back and rejoice that we didn't make deals like this.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Sep 1, 2016 -> 11:28 AM) I actually disagree here. Engel and May can both play CF defensively which makes them good at 1 thing to Garcia's 0 things. Garcia is at least a mediocre hitter. Engel and May wouldn't do that at the major league level.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Sep 1, 2016 -> 11:29 AM) But the game has changed and it's nearly impossible to take that long to rebuild a club if done the right way. The combination of high draft picks and huge bonus pools (amateur & international) gives the worst teams a huge edge in rebuilding. Nothing is obviously fool-proof, but we could have the best system in baseball and a young necleus of talent at the major league level by selling Sale, Quintana, etc. and having three strong draft classes on top of the one we just had. We're in a very unique situation in that we could kick off a rebuild by selling off three of the top 30 assets in baseballs in a huge seller's market. It gives us a headstart no other rebuilding team has had. Again, nothing is fool-proof, but we have a better chance of reaching the playoffs in the next five years with a "blow it up" strategy than another "half ass / go for it" strategy. Unless ownership is willing to spend and the front office can actually execute their offseason plan (both unlikely based on last year), there is really only one choice here. Blow this s*** up and let's start building towards sustainable success. This is the key here. This is a big assumption being made. Do you have confidence in that? I don't.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Sep 1, 2016 -> 11:29 AM) So you don't think Jerry is going to spend an abundance of money because of the fans and trading our best players in a rebuild is irrational so what do YOU want the Sox to do? I don't want to put words in your mouth but it sure seems like you're fine with them sticking on this road that they've been on for a decade now. Nope. What I am saying there is if you really feel the team fails in this area, why would you want to put the entire future of the franchise precisely on the thing they do worst?

QUOTE (chw42 @ Sep 1, 2016 -> 11:02 AM) Mr. Robot: Yes. That was a great pull together of the season to this point. I am amazed that this series has kept at the level it has, even after the big reveal of last season.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Sep 1, 2016 -> 11:10 AM) We kind of have. The 99 games played since the 23-10 start, which is a pretty decent sample size, shows the Sox playing (or losing, depending on how you look at it) at a 2013-esque level. In fact, I don't know if it's still true or not, but somewhere in the last week or so I saw a report that said the Sox had the worst record in baseball since the 23-10 start - and this with not one but two Cy Young candidates in the starting rotation! That in and of itself tells you how awful the rest of the team is at the moment! No. You are talking about a fraction of a season, and this moment. I am not. I am talking about long term awful.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Sep 1, 2016 -> 11:05 AM) Wow, it really seems like you're ok being stuck in the MLB version of NBA hell. That's awesome we float right around .500 each year and pretend to be competitive for a few months, but that doesn't change the underlying fact we're never legit playoff contenders. So while other teams pick a clear direction and reap the rewards (playoff runs or huge bonus pools), we remain in a perpetual cycle of mediocrity because we're afraid things can get worse in the short-run. And guess what's going to happen when Sale leaves for nothing in three years? Thinge have to get worse before they can get better, otherwise we're simply delaying the inevitable. How many other teams do you see rebuilding on the fly? That should tell you everything you need to know about how stupid our approach to organzation building is and explain exactly why we're in this version of NBA hell. No. Not at all, but nice assumption. What I am against is doing something stupid, simply to be doing something, and pretending that the state of the team today is actually the worst possible scenario for the franchise. It isn't about things being worse in the short run. It is about them being the worst for the long term.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Sep 1, 2016 -> 11:01 AM) Two more years and that will be a decade without a playoff appearance. Sounds like they are already punting a decade. That would be another decade. We just saw two franchises do exactly that for three.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 1, 2016 -> 11:01 AM) Just to stress - this assumes that the people doing the rebuild are terrible at identifying talent and completely fail at their job. Repeatedly. The Astros blew 2 #1 picks and turned one around in 5 years. This management has to be worse than "getting jack squat out of two #1 picks" to pull off your downside. So having them trade their best players for more talent that needs to be developed is their best solution? That is so irrational.

ChicagoSports ‏@ChicagoSports 52m52 minutes ago Healthy again, White Sox's Alex Avila trying to make most of final month http://trib.in/2bL0qoh via @ChiTribKane

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Sep 1, 2016 -> 10:49 AM) And what, ride off into the sunset of mediocrity until we lose Sale in a few years? Holding onto Sale & Quintana is pointless if you're never going to be able to build a winner around them. Obviously you don't give them away, but their value will never be higher than this offseason and if this magical haul some posters are expecting isn't there, then maybe you need to reset your expectations. There will be enough bidders this offseason to get fair market value for them, whatever that may be. I've said this so many times, but the absolute worst thing this franchise can do is hold onto these guys and end up getting nothing in return and not winning s***. There needs to be a sense of urgency this offseason to either to buy talent around them or to aggressively sell them. Waiting to be overwhelmed is the worst approach for a team in dire need of a clear direction. f***ing up a rebuild and punting on a decade is an absolutely stupid way to respond to "a clear lack of direction".

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 1, 2016 -> 10:44 AM) You personally were in the Guaranteed Rate thread saying how bad of a sign the indifference of larger companies was for this franchise when you look ahead to the next TV contract. I'd say you don't get to be scared of where things are going in that thread and then say how much worse things could be in here, because if things are scary right now...they're scary. I'd say things aren't nearly as black and white as you want to make them out to be.

QUOTE (balfanman @ Sep 1, 2016 -> 10:34 AM) This is where your GM has to grow a pair and say NO! We already know what he is, leave him in the minors until he figures out to do at least one area of the game well. At this point ( actually at least a couple of months ago now) give someone else an extended try out to see what they have. Coats, Engle, May, scrap heap fodder.....anyone. By trotting Avi out there again and again you are just fueling the fan base thoughts of " is this the best you can do......really". Because at least 2 of those 3 guys would be WAY worse than Avi. I promise you that if May or Engel were up here today, there would be meltdowns about them being rushed, not ready, and/or not good enough. Coats is the one guy who may actually deserve a shot, but isn't exactly a guy worth setting the world on fire for anyway.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Sep 1, 2016 -> 10:31 AM) Given the apathy currently present in the Sox fanbase, would "worse" even matter? The attendance sucks, nobody is watching, what's the difference between slightly under .500 and very under .500 every year? I'm not saying you have to trade them, but when you say "at least you still have Sale & Q", that just accepts this barely mediocre path JR has the franchise rolling on now. No that recognizes that trading them just to do something is a terrible, awful idea that would completely waste your best assets.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Sep 1, 2016 -> 10:31 AM) They're going to bring some sort of haul in return, I have no idea what it is, you have no idea what it is and nobody knows what the hell their "worth" is. We can pretend that we do but we don't. All I know is that having them together on this team has done absolutely nothing for us as our front office has no idea how to build around them. As I've said before, trading them is a complete crap shoot but I'm willing to take my chances as I know what results are yielded when we try to build around them. Instead we're going to keep waiting around talking about how valuable their contracts are and continue to miss the playoffs year after year because we need to get full value for them, and nobody knows what the f*** that is. We've made the playoffs one time since the WS year, one of 5 teams to only have 1 playoff appearance in that span and we have 0 playoff appearances with these two on the team together. No, things can't get worse. We haven't seen anywhere near the worst. We didn't go decades without being over .500.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/carlos-rodo...a-step-forward/

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Sep 1, 2016 -> 10:14 AM) And what good has that done the Sox? This is the exact same stuff that was said about John Danks. Just because things aren't great, doesn't mean they can't be worse.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Sep 1, 2016 -> 09:43 AM) Lots of good points being made in here. The Sox have tried to shed Avi, but injuries and Adam LaRoche being an abnormal human being have thrust him back into the lineup every time. I agree that it would be reasonable, but I would be opposed to it just as I was opposed with Viciedo. Both were known to be bad and I'd rather the money, time, coaching effort, and Spring Training plate appearances just be used another way. Seriously the dude must have a deal with the devil. The White Sox sign Austin Jackson, Adam LaRoche retires Austin Jackson gets a season ending injury The Sox trade for Tilson, gets hurt in his debut. Sox sign Justin Morneau, Avi is playing lately because of issues with Melky's health. He just keeps coming back.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Sep 1, 2016 -> 10:06 AM) I would say as is, Q and Sale contracts are the best value vs. performance in MLB and maybe in all professional sports. This team has a decent rotation. There were a lot of injuries. A new manager who is not a former Sox and a modified pen will also be a difference. Frazier will have a year of facing AL pitching so there will be some improvement. He's not a high avg. guy anyway. Abreu had an off year. Anyone remember those PK slumps? Remove an injury or two, Robin's management, pen pissing away games, they would have been closer this year. All great reasons they shouldn't be actively shopping Sale and/or Q. If teams want to come to you, and blow you away, hey great, you listen and make it work. If not, you still have Q and Sale.

They should have "little interest" in trading them. If either gets traded it should be because a team made a f***ing ridiculous offer to get them. It shouldn't be a situation where teams are telling you what is off of the table that gets a deal done. With the mediocrity of the offers at the deadline which were reported, I have little interest in that either.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Sep 1, 2016 -> 06:59 AM) No such thing. If you ask anyone if they'd rather come up to the Majors for a month or play in a minor league playoff game, 9 out of 10 would rather spend a month in the majors. The Sox like to put their top guys into playoff situations. They do it often.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Sep 1, 2016 -> 12:32 AM) He's been starting in Charlotte And went 5 IP in his previous start.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Aug 31, 2016 -> 07:21 PM) As much as I can't stand this organization right now, I do agree with this. They have been trying to replace him and something always comes up, I don't see him back next season. This I don't agree with. The dude has no ceiling at this point. Its all relative. I mean who else is there right now? Shuck sucks. Coats isn't exactly a premium player either, and isn't on the roster at this point anyway.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Aug 31, 2016 -> 06:33 PM) Why continue to play him. It's call up season so play coats or a few other guys. I know Hahn and Williams aren't really interested in this players but maybe one will have a good September and Hahn can throw him in the package for the inevitable trade for a veteran. Because he has more ceiling than anyone else that would be called up right now, and we are out of it. It isn't like we are playing to win anyway.

Ask me after September. They have been trying to replace the guy for a year now, and every time they think they do, something else happens and he works back into the line up. I know they are working on the whole "launch angle" thing, and there is always a small chance that yields results, but the odds have to be pretty small.