southsider2k5

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 4, 2015 -> 11:54 AM) You have successfully predicted 142 of the last two recessions though Eta and aren't cheap commodities prices, especially for things as widely used as copper and oil, good for the overall economy? And are junk bonds usually any sort of indicator of the overall economy? They are good for the economy, but a sign of weakness in the economy typically. I would say in this specific example a oil is being hit by more external forces and isn't going to be exhibiting typical behavior because of the supply war going on, and the decade of the 2000's push to drill as much as possible all coming together at once in the last year or so.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Dec 3, 2015 -> 05:11 PM) It wouldn't ultimately be their decision though. I'm sure they wouldn't want it released, but they're not the ones that decide. This is Emmanuel trying to cover his own ass at this point...he's in full damage control mode. It is just like when he was in the Clinton White House. Instead of making a stand early to do what is right, he waited until the political winds of popular opinion shifted, and that is why his opinion changed. Same thing with firing McCartney.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 4, 2015 -> 12:56 PM) If inflation and unemployment were really high, would you lower the rates to counteract the unemployment? Lower rates would actually not stop inflation and would serve to accelerate it unless something else was going on. Higher rates are used to tame inflation, ala the early 1980's. The combination of high unemployment and high inflation would probably mean a real recession as it isn't easy to fix one without screwing up the other.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 4, 2015 -> 10:35 AM) He told Vincent Goodwill yesterday that he will opt-out. He will opt out because he can double his annual contract by doing so.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Nov 18, 2015 -> 11:33 AM) Yes, but as was established earlier in the thread, Kenny is often full of poop. It is also quite acceptable to not believe any of what was said, and if that is the case, there really is no reason to freak out about things, though for many here the only exercise they get is jumping to conclusions.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Nov 18, 2015 -> 11:08 AM) KW just needs to go away and let Rick have a chance to steer the ship. The conflicting approaches leave the Sox in purgatory, not enough commitment to either win now or to build up the system from the bottom up. AA left his job in Toronto because he did not want the micromanagement from Shapiro the way that KW is there to manage Hahn. Too many cooks in the kitchen. The funny thing is this is demonstrating that this is exactly what Kenny is doing. He isn't saying this is our plan, or my plan. He is asking Rick Hahn for HIS plan.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 18, 2015 -> 10:39 AM) This idea that our front office is unprepared is such a stupid narrative. Anyone who has worked in any business at all knows that when you are depending on making investments where costs and availability are not certain, you have to have several backup plans and you have to be resigned to the fact that you will need to make a quick decision when the information finally gets to you. I mean, think about all of the questions you'd have for the WS front office regarding who they should acquire or who they should trade. Now, how many of those answers are anything other than "it depends"? Should they trade Chris Sale? Depends on the return they could get and depends on the direction of the team which depends on the outcomes of other deals which depend on the costs that are attached to those deals which depends on what other teams decide to do when given the exact same problem under the same circumstances at the same time. There are a billion ways to skin the cat, and almost NONE of the requisite information to choose the best way is even available yet. Cubs management said almost exactly what was said here about a week ago, and no one said a thing about it. Theo and Jed are supposed to be meeting next week to decide on their plan.

QUOTE (fathom @ Nov 18, 2015 -> 09:52 AM) I stopped listening to what KW said a long time ago, as it's usually never honest. I'm sure people on here will still blame him for any bad move Hahn makes. The thread should be closed here, as this is the most true thing that will be said in the entire thing.

Right now they are a team without an identity. They are still figuring out the system, and who is going to play where and when. There have been some positives and negatives, but we are still early on the learning curve

Bob Nightengale ‏@BNightengale 2m2 minutes ago The #SFGiants reward SS Brandon Crawford with six-year contract extension.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 04:56 PM) I doubt that the Sox would even be interested in him. I'm just thinking hypothetically. The White Sox have no good reason to be interested in him. He isn't what they need.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 04:54 PM) Following the white flag trade, we eventually went on one of the franchises best runs, so that might not be a bad thing. The fan base came back and was at its peak following the world series that was one again, following the trade. I'm not saying the trade directly impacted the world series, but the 2000 era White Sox were molded from that trade (along with draft picks, etc) and then a contingent of that base evolved into the 2005 champ. Additionally, this is trading your best player for prospects. Yes, it is a sign of a change in strategy, but unlike the white flag trade, we are not a few games out of the playoffs or favorites for anything right now. We are a combined 59 games under .500 over the past 3 seasons. Also, from an attendance perspective, while the white flag trade (along with other things) led to a 400K decline in attendance from the 97 season into 98 and 99, the Sox followed that up with the best attendance run in modern franchise history (with exception with the early new comiskey years where they, like any other team, benefited from the newness of the park (and a pretty damn good roster). We also had a Hall of Famer in the line up. In this deal, we'd be trading the face of our franchise, and unlike that deal, he is no where near free agency.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 04:44 PM) It's the Marlins, anything is possible. That said, I agree lol. I'd build a package around Fulmer if possible. Quintana is already more proven and on a better contract than Fernandez, so he's out of the question unless the Marlins add. Quintana would fit the Marlins, in that he is signed long term and cheap.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 04:47 PM) For those that are wanting Rich Hill, he is close to signing, Rays and Padres look to be the front runners. I get the reasoning why some people wanted Hill to sign with the Sox, but injury risk, and the amount of innings he has pitched in the last 6 years just don't add up with his age. In all seriousness, I would rather sign Jeff Samardjiza long term, versus Rich Hill to any real contract.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 04:43 PM) I honestly think their recent performance is already a PR disaster so what real downside do they have. Ratings are bad, attendance is lousy, the team has struggled. Are you really going to disenfranchise that many more people? All we really want is wins and if you think it is the right move, then you need to make it. If a team is going to go crazy for Sale than you should probably bite the bullet vs. wait another year (if we really don't think we can contend this year). If the Sox take a, lets give this one more shot thing (given last years roster) and then if it doesn't work, we'll move some young pitching / others and retool, well then that just doesn't make sense to me. You have no idea if your assets get hurt, etc. So if they think they'll move Sale in a number of scenarios (depending on how the club performs this year), then I think you move him now (or at least listen to offers). Bottom line is we need to find a lot of quality position players and figure out a way to become a good defensive team. In this era of baseball, you either find a way to have an unusually potent offense (and live with mediocre pitching) or you have awesome pitching and strong defense. Right now the Sox have a crappy offense, a crappy defense, and above average pitching...that just doesn't fly. And they don't have a ton of young position talent to upgrade the area, so they are going to have to look outside of the org to find the talent. Hindsight is 20/20 and I probably am making things sound worse then they are (as I still think with the right moves, we can contend pretty quickly), but I think it will be a challenge to get their without moving existing major league young talent and leveraging our young proven pitching to get position talent while relying / hoping our track record of developing young pitching can continue to be true (and thus we get to the spot where we have the defense, hitting, and pitching to become an elite team). Right now we are just such a flawed / patch work team. It was as if strategically we had no idea where we were going to go last off-season and instead of being strategic in where we headed, we kind of pieced it together and knew the collective parts didn't mesh but hoped the overall results would somehow overcome it. It also reaked a bit of building a team without appreciating / considering the current roster construction in baseball and the deflated offensive era and the overall importance of a run. There are plenty of people still going to games, even at this reduced rate. Another "White Flag" trade would put the franchise in a state where they might as well start looking for a new home. This is a middle market revenue team, keep in mind.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 04:34 PM) It'd be cool if the Sox traded for him. Sale/Fernandez/Quintana/Rodon/Fulmer would be awesome. I don't see how we could get Fernandez without giving up one of those pitchers, at least.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 04:33 PM) Given Dombroski's track-record and history of finding ace starting rotations (and building around an ace or two) as well as his aggressiveness when it comes to trade (and use his prospects), I would be stunned if he hasn't asked the Sox about Sale. Absolutely stunned. I also think Sale is probably the best chip to move, but obviously a lot of risk with moving him. You need to get a huge haul and you need to be extremely confident in your scouting. I'm to the point now that I used to be totally focused on pitching, that I'm totally switched and we need to find talented, toolsy, multi-faceted position players who can contribute on a daily basis. While Sale is amazing and awesome (as is Q), the premium right now is on positional talent. Pitching is just so freaking good that the old addage of you can never have too much good pitching is less true because their is just so much damn good pitching. With where Sale is at in his contract, I honestly don't think the Sox could be realistically offered enough to trade Chris. Factor in the PR disaster that would result from it, and it becomes even more unlikely. Maybe in a couple of years if the rebuild still hasn't gone anywhere you think about it, but pretty much the price would start with a current or soon to be star offensive player, and go from there. No package of prospects would be enough.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 04:10 PM) It's been mentioned in several articles that Dombrowski has checked with the A's about Sonny Gray and the White Sox about Sale. I haven't seen any that said he actually did. I have seen ones that said he should, or he could, not that he actually has done it.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 02:08 PM) lol. Loria is like "WAIT HE IS GOOD AND PEOPLE RECOGNIZE IT NOW PLEASE DITCH HIM" It is called he didn't extend.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 01:31 PM) Prepare to be disappointed. In all seriousness, if we get to the point where Sale is on the free agent market, at the prices that top pitchers are going for, I am plenty OK with letting someone else take a $250 or $300 million risk on him.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 12:24 PM) I won't because what the prospects do is irrelevant. I think it's bad because they could have used those same prospects to get someone more valuable. I think Fulmer has a better chance at being a starting pitcher than Montas does so I disagree there as well. Between Fulmer and Montas I would say Fulmer has a higher floor and a lower ceiling. I think Fulmer will be on a major league roster doing something for a long time, even if it is relieving, though I think he will start. Montas still has enough growth left to achieve, you can see him being a wash out if he can't get his control/repeatability and health to stay consistently. But if Montas could put it all together, he could be a top end starter, or a premier closer at his ceiling. I don't see that for Fulmer.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 11:38 AM) That's kind of what I was hinting at. Kershaw would get way more than $215 million in today's market for aces. Hell, Cueto or Zimmermann could get something close to that number this offseason and they're not even close to the talent level as Kershaw/Sale. Also keep in mind that only one team was bidding on Kershaw when he signed that deal. Who knows what he gets on the open market.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 09:10 AM) Lol. You can't be serious right? The richest contract for a pitcher in baseball history belongs to Clayton Kershaw at 7 years, $215 million. Before signing that contract Kershaw had already won 2 Cy Youngs, 3 ERA titles, and a triple crown. You really think that Sale would get nearly double the guaranteed money when he has not accomplished what Kershaw has and has lingering durability concerns? Even if it were a 10 year deal it would have to be $40+ million per year which is roughly 33% more per year than Kershaw makes. While I think $400 million is a bit crazy, I could see something between $250 and $300 with the dearth of pitchers around next year.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 09:34 AM) Thank you. Sometimes it seems as if I'm the only one who thinks Montas should be given every chance to start. Those relegating him to closer or the bullpen at this point in his career are misguided. He isn't ready to either start or close in the majors yet as he has control and command issues . His upside is still a number 2 starter and that would be extremely valuable to the Sox. The kid will be 23 in March . Give him a chance to reach his potential. He can always be converted to a reliever when he has proven that he can't start. I am with you. He has barely made a mark in AA, let alone MLB. With an arm like that you give him every chance to start, as the bullpen is always there. If we were a title contending team, maybe then you use him in the pen, but where the Sox are now, there is no good reason for it.

Not much. I don't think he would get much more than he has in terms of contract left if he were a free agent today, which means he has minimal excess value. That also means he doesn't have much trade value.