southsider2k5

QUOTE (captain54 @ Oct 14, 2015 -> 03:23 PM) Okay.. can we officially let go of what the majority of posters thought pre 2015? It didn't work out.. Moving forward, what reason is there for fans to believe that 2015 was an anomaly, or that the franchise magically figured out how to correct what didn't work in 2015? I believe that this franchises' best efforts in 2016, with Robin coming back, Hahn coming back, KW coming back.. a reshuffling of the roster by the "brain trust" (and I use that term loosely) will result in and around a .500 record…and yes, that's an improvement over 2015, but I can't see myself bowing at the shrine of Kenny Williams and the shrine of the 2005 WS trophy over a mediocre, tired franchise… The ONLY factor directly related to my interest in the Sox is come the day, their cage gets seriously rattled, people are held accountable.. and I can watch a game without the thought of what the hell happened to my favorite team So essentially the same group that most thought had assembled a borderline playoff team six months ago, now is incapable of doing anything right. Seems about right.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 14, 2015 -> 02:31 PM) Having an interview is different than being handed a GM job on a silver platter. He's a Chicago native, been living here forever, he knows the owner is super loyal to a fault, so the job is his no questions asked. Why risk that to MAYBE get a job somewhere else? Even if that job wields more power, you gotta take the sure thing when offered to you. How many GM jobs even open up every year? That's why I don't question why he might take a job under KW & JR calling the shots. There is no risk for Hahn. If he didn't get a different job, he'd come back just like everyone else who has interviewed for other jobs. And as I said before, he also knew that as long as he worked with Kenny here, Kenny was going to be his overseer. He either was OK with that, or stupid enough to think that Kenny wouldn't be involved.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Oct 14, 2015 -> 01:11 PM) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_White_...ail_controversy There is also no actual evidence at this point of Clinton doing this deliberately to avoid public disclosure laws or anything like that. lol.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Oct 14, 2015 -> 11:03 AM) The cringe-worthy thing about reading many posts on here, is that if the sox ever go back to the playoffs, people on here would be making excuses for the the people that are being accused of being bandwagoners. If someone is happy about their team winning, than who cares? Do we have nothing better or important to worry about than people being happy over a team winning? In the end, who cares its just a game. It's not like they're the first team to ever have bandwagon fans. Literally every team in the postseason does. Many of the same people excusing emptying of the bandwagon, are the ones upset with bandwagon fans coming back in better days. Take their money and be happy.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 14, 2015 -> 12:18 PM) I used to think that too, but given how few GM jobs there are, I don't think it's that simple. It's not like he can pick and choose any other GM job wants, he'd be lucky to end up in the right opening at the right time. Here he has the perfect connection to get the job, so even if it's not ideal power structure, it's better than possibly starting from the bottom somewhere else. Considering he had a chance at interviews at something like half a dozen different teams, and withdrew or denied all but one, I don't buy that. If teams hadn't been looking to hire him, I'd feel differently. Many franchises tried to convince him to leave.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Oct 14, 2015 -> 10:09 AM) Anyone else stick with the Leftovers? The wife and I caught the first 2 episodes last night. I gotta say, it's basically Lost 2.0 with a few less characters. The opening 10 minutes was a total WTF, "guys, where are we?" type scene. Not sure i'm crazy about the subject matter/main story really (the departed thing is kinda hokey), but holy crap is the writing/filming/editing/everything done SO well. I have. I try not to judge each episode too much when it is obvious that there is a story arc going on. The second episode explained a lot of the first episode, and opened up some new story lines as well. Past that, I will be able to judge the merits of those episodes more as the season gives more answers.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 14, 2015 -> 12:00 PM) I definitely fall in the camp that, at best, Clinton was industrial-grade stupid to get into that email mess. At worst, it was a way to more easily hide stuff. It wasn't stupid. It was a calculated attempt to hide correspondence from the American public. Clinton may be a lot of things, but she isn't stupid. She didn't want stuff getting used against her that was in the public domain.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Oct 14, 2015 -> 11:17 AM) Sanders was right to point out how stupid the never-ending email server drama is, and good for him for doing that rather than making dumb and pointless political attacks out of it. He'd rather go after her on economic issues. On the other hand, I think he's also right that most people are sick of it/don't give a s***, so it's not a useful line of attack anyway. Democrats don't care about it. This was designed to score some points with those people. The people that do care about it, aren't going to be voting for Sanders or Clinton anyway.

QUOTE (South Sider @ Oct 14, 2015 -> 11:55 AM) Rick also put to rest any speculation that the Sox wouldn't offer Samardizja a qualifying offer. Basically he said that "should things work out that Jeff ends up in another uniform next season, we'll at the very least end up with a draft pick..." There was no way the Sox weren't going to offer him.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 14, 2015 -> 10:37 AM) Sox fans take pride in emptying the stadium when the team sucks because we care more about pure baseball than babes in bikinis blitzing back beers before Bryant bats. No Sox fans care only about winning baseball, not pure baseball. They don't go just to watch baseball. They go to watch winning baseball.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Oct 14, 2015 -> 10:32 AM) Who's handwaving? You're the one who consistently compares them, when nobody can operate like the Cubs do. No. The Sox fans don't allow the team to operate that way.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Oct 14, 2015 -> 10:27 AM) Quoted for emphasis, because he still either doesn't get it or conveniently ignores it. Handwaving the truth away doesn't change the impact it has on how the two franchises do business. Because of the differences in fan bases, the White Sox will never be able to do what the Cubs did. Those two things are absolutely 100% related. It also doesn't have to be that way, but then again, Sox fans take pride in emptying their stadium.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Oct 14, 2015 -> 10:07 AM) I agree with some of the points being made including regarding the Cubs but...you also have to consider this. In 35 years the Cubs have made the playoffs now, what eight times? That's not good but it's a lot better than the Sox' five times in that same span. If the Cubs are bad historically (and they are) what does that stat say about the Sox franchise? Just wondering. Mark It is 7 including this year. 6 before this year, to the White Sox five, and were still outdrawing this franchise by one million fans in 2014. They were still outdrawing them when we were in first place, and they were having their worst season in almost 50 years. All you have done is prove my point.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Oct 14, 2015 -> 09:27 AM) Also probably looking at regular season record of all the teams remaining. However, I doubt the Cubs would be the favorite in Vegas in a series against the Blue Jays. The lines are based on how much action each side is placing, not the true odds of winning. Cubs fans are betting like mad, which is pushing their odds down. It literally has nothing to do with who is actually the best team.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Oct 14, 2015 -> 08:59 AM) Cub attendance took a big hit the past few years remember which led to the drive to bring in Theo, completely gut the franchise and get to where they are today. Their were a lot, ALOT of empty seats being shown on TV at Wrigley Field. Cub fans were getting fed up and pissed off. Columns were written about it in both the Sun-Times and Tribune. Just trying to be accurate. And just last year the Royals manager called out his fan base for not showing up with the Royals winning. Three decades of losing will do that to a fan base who has to be convinced the season isn't a mirage. Sounds a lot like things on the South Side no? (example is 2000 after four losing seasons in five years time...) Mark The Cubs drew 2.6 million in 2013 and 2014. 2014 attendance was up over the previous year. The White Sox have drawn that much twice in the last twenty years. They drew ONE MILLION MORE FANS then we did in 2014, in their sixth straight year of under .500 baseball. We even had a year in 2012 where we were in first place until the last two weeks of the season, and still got out drawn by 900,000 fans by a Cubs team that went 61-101. Again, that gives them options that the White Sox don't have. And that is my point exactly when talking about "plans". The Royals fan base was decimated, and because of that it took them WAY longer than a team like the Cubs who has a fan base that still shows up. Our fan base is much closer to the Royals in terms of being willing to see out a "plan". That is my point exactly, and I am glad you finally get it.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Oct 14, 2015 -> 07:26 AM) Didn't mean to make three posts. Internet was acting up. Can a mod delete 2 of the threads? They are gone.

QUOTE (AustinIllini @ Oct 14, 2015 -> 07:32 AM) Right, but no strategy works when you team is consistently awful. Except it does for a franchise that you are actively rooting for right now.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 14, 2015 -> 07:24 AM) And whose fault is it the fans aren't loyal? Does Nokia blame cell phone buyers, IBM computer buyers...do K-Mart, Sears, JC Penney and Montgomery-Ward blame its customers or themselves? Did Apple blame its customers after Jobs was pushed out for a Pepsi exec and nobody wanted to buy their newest inventions? I don't believe any CEO of a major corporation in the world would blame consumers for not consuming an inferior or fatally flawed product. Did McDonalds blame Starbucks, Subway, Chipotle, In and Out, Panera, Five Guys? It would be different if we didn't have an example of it right here in Chicago.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 11, 2015 -> 07:56 AM) they're just citing historical examples that may or may not apply but obscure the crux of the argument. QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 14, 2015 -> 07:05 AM) Or whenever they get an opportunity to have nice things, they completely mess it up. Dunn LaRoche Shark Avi Garcia Beckham Viciedo Keppinger Bonifacio Cabrera Downs Davidson Nestor Molina Zach Duke Brian Anderson Josh Fields Joe Borchard McCulloch/Broadway/Ring/Poreda Jared Mitchell instead of Trout Kotsay/Jones instead of Thome Danks instead of Buehrle Etc.

QUOTE (AustinIllini @ Oct 13, 2015 -> 10:45 PM) I'm not sure how many more playoff wins the Royals, Astros, and Cubs need before this board and the Sox organization figure out the formula. Royals = 3 decades of not winning Astros = hadn't made the playoffs in longer than the White Sox including 3 straight years of 100+ losses and literally 0 rated broadcasts, and rated one of the absolute worst franchises in sports (117 of 132 in the rankings last year, that we are 85th in this year) Cubs = Fans still showing up, allowing them to not only completely rebuild, but also to still sign top free agents

QUOTE (Baron @ Oct 13, 2015 -> 09:07 PM) Rick Hahn has no choice. He also has no money.

QUOTE (Tex @ Oct 13, 2015 -> 08:09 PM) I think we do a disservice to casual fans. I'd rather have a stadium full of loyal fans, than an empty stadium. That is way better in terms of being able to put a quality product on the field year after year. It makes it easier to sustain success and recover from failure. Flailing year after to year to capture the "casual fans" is exact how we have managed for years now. The casual fans only need to look north to see what "disservice" they do to their baseball club.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Oct 13, 2015 -> 07:54 PM) Loyalty is a two way street especially when you are dealing with a public trust. Baseball like business is a results orientated business. The results the last nine years speak for themselves. With MLB a nine billion dollar industry right now that's really the only thing the Sox don't have to worry about. They are making money rest easy on that score. I have this mental image of JR (like Nero) fiddling while the Sox (like Rome) are burning to the ground... Not a pleseant image on many levels. Mark And this is why the White Sox don't have nice things.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Oct 13, 2015 -> 05:50 PM) Would depend on whether or not JR can be expected to spend now to augment 2016 with the knowledge that $29 million comes off the books the next year with Danks and LaRoche- $39 million if they have re-signed Alexei. They won't spend into a deficit this year. If anything they wait until 2016 to spend.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Oct 13, 2015 -> 06:24 PM) Bandwagon fans means more money for the franchise to spend (hopefully) at least part of it on getting good players to keep coming in and continuing winning baseball. Mark Loyal fans mean money when things aren't good. Wouldn't that be nice now.