upnorthsox

Ahhh let's just say we're both right and drink to many less GIDP's this YR!!!!

No, he constantly tries to pull that outside pitch.......... ......right to the SS.

Yes interesting that Maggs leads Kong, who'd a thunk.

Rex, never mind I forgot I can look up all posts by a poster by clicking on their name which is sweet.

I was hoping someone had a link for this old man if it was up already.

I wouldn't call KC a fluke but of the three they have by far the toughest first two months, that is what'll most likely knock them out of the race.

So Maddux is going to the Twins?

Baj, Speaking of bandwagons, I know a few guys who are jumping on yours bigtime and I'd love to hear a self assessment from you and where you feel your road is leading this yr.

The only similarity I see between Cotts and Foulke besides their fastball speed(which is hardly unique as tons of guys are in the 90-91 range) is that they both have a hesitation at the top of their delivery, things pretty much stop after that. If there was disappointment in Cotts it's that we were hoping for an F-Rod and didn't get it, but that's our fault not his. It goes to show just how incredibly lucky that 2002 Angel team really was.

That's not quite how I recollect it Past, IIRC the players came back from the strike out of shape and incredibly pissed off at their owner who had traded away their staff ace and proceded to go 10-20 or something like that and Lamont took the fall for it. Also, Fernandez was never hurt while with the Sox, Alverez was almost the same way, and Bere didn't start his injury spiral til '96 long after Lamont was gone.

Jeremy Affeldt - S - KC Jeremy Affeldt thinks the removal of half his fingernail may result in the end of his blister problems. When a doctor removed half the fingernail on the middle finger of his left hand, Affeldt said it was discovered that part of the nail was growing down into his skin and causing him to feel a "spike." Since the removal and permanent termination of the fingernail, Affeldt has had three pain-free throwing sessions in the Dominican Republic.

I understand people not going for the Pena trade, that's just my opinion but when he's a GG All-Star next yr there's going to be alot of ITYS's out of me. Maddux is no more a pipedream than Colon was last yr and I believe I laid out how we can afford him already so I won't repeat myself. Of course, I agree with you on Konerko for Perez.

Interesting that you'd add Seaver in there Past as I like the parallel's to Maddux. Seaver was about the same age as Maddux now when we got him and was our best pitcher we had for 2 yrs winning 31 games and of course giving us that memorable 300th win in Yankee Stadium(if Maddux could do they same in Wrigley on the 4th of July, man........). Actually, Seaver should be held up as the example FOR signing Maddux for 2 yrs.

Too funny!!!! The 2 best things to happen for Sox fans last season are now the 2 biggest things being used against us. First the Cubs losing, and to think I thought it would be bad for the Sox if they lost. Now the Marlins are being held up as the excuse for cheapness, man if I'd a known I'd have been crying instead of LMFAO. Second Loaiza winning 20, now we're getting the excuse that a 20 gamer can be found every yr by dredging the scum on the bottom of the FA pond. Well that's Sox fans luck I guess, no wonder it's all our fault.

So you're saying then that if Maddux is signed by the Cubs then there's no way that LA would trade Perez for Konerko? Why has this never been mentioned in the 3 months before but only comes out now in the past week? LA got a pitcher in return for Brown so I don't see why that would end Perez discussions. If you think that LA wouldn't do this deal straight up then as I said we could throw Schoney in also, but it has been reported several times that it's KW who wanted more than just Perez and the hold up was the that and the ownership issue.

I wouldn't be so fast to crap on the Tiggers(or Clevelands) chances with recent history in the AL Central, '00 a bad Sox team the yr before comes out of nowhere to win the ALC, '01 a bad Minny team(8 straight losing seasons, 4 straight over 90 losses) surges to take 2nd place then 2 straight ALC crowns, '03 a 100 loss KC team(8 straight losing seasons) roars back and stays in contention until the final 2 weeks. They are now being considered the favs by some in '04.

Amen!!! It has little to do with dumping a ton of cash, it has everything to do with putting out a rotation that can win. If that takes adding payroll this yr then so be it. next yr the payroll will be down about $30 mil, if they are fielding a team that can win it all then so be it too. Btw, Cleveland was in 2 WS.

But the Perez deal/talk has been there long before the new Maddux wrinkle so they were willing to make it before. Like I said, the reason I like the scenerio is that KW controls the action, he can afford to stand pat at this point LA is the one who needs to make a deal. Maddux is a luxury to LA at this point and they'd still need to make another deal, KW doesn't, so if he makes the deal contingent on signing Maddux then LA has little option but to blink. Of course, KW could throw Schoney into the deal to solve one of his problems and give LA some face saving on the whole deal. This is infinitely more doable than waiting on Seattle to trade us Soriano, the M's like KW can just say no and be little worse for the it.

As great as it would be to get Jackson and/or Miller I don't see the Dodgers trading either mostly because they don't have to, and if they were available there'd be 29 teams offering up trade deals for them. I mean don't ya think Torii Hunter would all of a sudden be available? Or Nomar, or Andruw Jones, or Chipper Jones? Hidalgo is already available and Houston is willing to send money with him. Does Brett Boone become available, or Chavez from the A's, or Soriano in NY or Sweeney in KC or Lowell in Florida? Where does the soon to be FA Maggs stack up then? And for Konerko? Puhlease.

One final thing, when I proposed this elsewhere I was immediately jumped on about how that's overpaying for Maddux but if it fills a need, fits within your budget, and doesn't hamstring you in the future, who cares. Besides, thinking you are going to get him without being the best offer out there is just being unrealistic.

Ok to finish my scenerio from above, one of the reasons I like it the most is that KW controls the action thru the whole thing. At $17 mil the Cards are blown out of the water and the Cubs would bow out. There's still LA but to even match the offer they'd need to have the Konerko deal in place and even then that's adding at least $12 mil to the payroll. IMO and probably theirs they'd end up being satisfied with just the hitting upgrade and if not then KW doesn't have to make the move and they're left with nothing. This is very much a winning situation for KW, much like his out lasting the Colon negotiations last yr with the end result being one of the top rotations in the Majors and the biggest PR bonanza this ownership group has ever had. Plus, they don't have to compromise with a long term pitching contract, they maintain their mediocre budget, and they have positioned themselves for next yr too. That's win, win, win. Now my Pena deal(Hi MSF!:-)) to finish things off is this, Rauch, Ginter, Schoney, and Joe B. for Pena and Brandon Inge. Sounds like alot huh, and it is which is exactly why Dombrowski would be a fool to turn it down. That's 4 guys who have a legit chance to make their club(including 2 possible starters) for one young 1st baseman and a catcher who's going to start the yr in AAA. So why would KW do it? First, we get rid of Schoney's contract, Ginter probably won't make the team and won't make it thru waivers anyhow so no loss, Rauch has upside but it seems like he has issues too plus he's regressed from his MLBOY season and another yr like the last 2 and he'll have little value at all, finally trading Joe B. doesn't thrill me because of his upside but with Reed coming on and the risk of another mediocre season bellying up his trade value I make the trade. In return we get our starting 1st baseman for the next 5 yrs plus the second half of our catching duo for the next 5 yrs, we also get the final upgrade to our IF defense with, when Uribe is in the lineup, 3 and possibly even 4(depending on Willie) GG caliber fielders. In fact, an IF of Pena, Harris, Uribe, Crede, and Olivo/Inge might be the best young defensive infield in the majors. Combine that with the proposed rotation, BP, a new and refreshing manager, and two legit MVP candidates on O and that's a championship quality team. Of course, all this makes way too much sense and that's why it'll never happen. This team always opts to shoot itself in the foot instead.

Ok, here's my trade scenerio: Trade Kong for Perez straight up, that saves you $4 mil. Sign Maddux for 2 yr/$17 mil($8 mil in '04/$9 mil in '05) with $2 mil defered in '04. That puts ya $2 mil over from where we are now. Trade Schoney for a prospect, that save ya almost $2 mil. Viola! Our budget then is where it's at now but we have a rotation of Buehrle, Loaiza, Maddux, Perez, and Garland. Our BP still looks strong if Koch comes back and our GIDP's go down in the lineup. Plus, if things go terribly wrong you still have Maggs to trade at the deadline to save money and get prospects. Hell, I could even put together a package to trade for Carlos Pena to replace Kong.

I don't believe that to be true and I believe history backs me up on this. A good example is Ray Durham, we got next to nothing for him even though he was a consistent performer having a good yr. Another example of the dangers of waiting is El Duque, I'm sure people in NY were b****ing that they coulda got more for him than Osuna if they had just waited til the deadline but guess what, they'd have gotten nothing. Zip ziltch. You could point to a guy like Ponson but he's more the exception than the rule, he had little trade value going into the season and it was only the fact that he was in a career yr that he brought what he did. In retrospect ELo should've been on the trade block too as his value will never be as high as it was in July, but then that brings up another aspect of waiting, in doing so you don't know what your own situation will be at the deadline and while making a trade may be in the long term interests of the team the here and now says making a trade would be a flipp'n disaster. Even with all the negativity this off season about the Sox, the fallout from having traded a Colon and an ELo at the deadline last yr while we were in a deadlock for the division would've been unbelievable, I know that would've been the final straw for me. As to Maggs, he's a consistently good performer, in good current health, who you expect to have a good season, and he has trade demand now. Waiting only brings the possibilities of poor performance, injury, lower return because he'd only be available to the team for 2 months, and huge possible fan backlash for trading someone while in a division race.

Didn't mean it to come out pesimistic, I was trying to answer how things would be if they traded him in July and I don't think they could do it if they're in contention even if it's what's best for the franchise in the long run. IMO you trade him now and hope what you get in return will put you over the top or you hang onto him and let him walk at the end of the season. Personally, I could go either way depending on the trade.

Will they dislike it any less in July with the team out of contention?