2nd_city_saint787

Ah yes, Keppinger has become irrelevant to me.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 17, 2013 -> 01:18 PM) We already have that guy. Semien? I don't want him to be a platoon player, he either starts up here or in AAA.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Sep 17, 2013 -> 12:28 PM) Why would Headley sign a 2 or 3 year extension? At age 30, it's his best time to strike it rich as a free agent. He is gonna hope to play well and sign a 5-7 year deal from the Yankees in the following offseason. That's why I included the word "try" as I too am not sure he'd do that either, and thinking about it more, you're probably right. I still like Headley though and if he hits FA next season I'd be all about signing him. I guess for next year I'd be cool with giving Conor another chance. If you look at what he did against RHP the numbers he put up are similar to what Pablo put up..... Pablo- .278/.334/.441 12 HRs Conor- .274/.333/.430 12 HRs And Conor was just a rookie. Pick up a platoon player and call it a day at 3B.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Sep 17, 2013 -> 11:36 AM) We only get one shot at this trading from our pitching strength to upgrade positional deficiency. I think we need to go after a younger player. QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Sep 17, 2013 -> 11:37 AM) But he's 30 and a pending free agent next year. i know you 2 either said no or haven't touched on Gomez but Headley is only 5 months older than Gomez...I'd get him and try to give him a 2 or 3 year extension before the season. QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 17, 2013 -> 11:41 AM) Those starters that have proven their capabilities as more than just a serviceable starting pitching are off limits for me in a proposed Headley trade. So is Erik Johnson. Rienzo is not. I've said it otherwise, but Rienzo and Snodgress for Headley would be fine with me. That's about the most I could trade. I wouldn't do it for Q but Santiago scares me a bit, I'm not sure he'll ever become an a efficient enough pitcher to garner not giving him up for a gold glove middle of the order bat....Like I said, I of course would like to get him for less but wouldn't hesitate to give up Hector. Just my opinion on 3B.

I'm still liking taking a chance on Chase Headley even if it takes Santiago to get him. He's a gold glove 3rd basemen who if you discard his 1 really bad month still put up a .269/.361/.473(inflated by his .308/.400/.718 September so far.....763 ops if you discard Sept)....I know people will bring up how he only had 1 big year but if you look at his home/road splits he's put up an ops over .800 in 2011(.864), 2009(.803), and 2008(.831) on the road as well. So I think taking him out of Petco and putting him in the Cell will do him a lot of good....I'd like to get him for less than Santiago if possible but probably wouldn't hesitate to do it straight up.

Josh Gordon, Marlon Brown, or Jermaine Gresham at Flex2? Gordon is coming back from suspension so I'm not sure if he needs to "get back in the swing of things", Brown has been money the first 2 weeks, and Gresham is facing the Pack who gave up big yards to Vernon Davis week 1.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 16, 2013 -> 10:44 PM) I can't believe the Sox are 30 below .500 with all this young pitching that is better than average to good. Our pitching is a solid B to B-plus and yet we are 32 under .500 or something. I know it hurts for you to hear this but a lot of this is due to Paulie being god awful. Since I'm on a splits kick, and the whole batting vs RHP has been relevant the last few days heres some ugly stats to swallow. PKs .308 slugging% is only 6 points higher than Keppingers .302, and Phegs .299 for worst on the team. Tyler Flowers has more extra base hits than Paulie in 155 less ABs. That kind of production out of your 1B and 5 hitter is just awful. Oh, and lots and lots of awful defense.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 16, 2013 -> 10:03 PM) Lexi has so much talent. Hopefully this was just an off season. I'd be OK with keeping him in the infield while letting go Gillaspie, Becks and Paulie and of course making Phegs the backup to McCann or AJP or somebody. After looking at Lexi's splits today I really applaud RV for moving him up in the order. It was a somewhat puzzling move at the time but after seeing that he's hit over .300 with an obp over .340 with runners on over the last 3 years it makes sense to move him to the 2-3 spot where there's a better chance that he hits with runners on. If he's back next year, and I hope he is, I wanna see him bat 2nd. Preferably behind someone who gets on at a higher rate than De Aza.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Sep 16, 2013 -> 10:22 AM) Hah, I just read through the comments from the Bears game...I recognize the frustration, as I was b****ing too, but jeesh, the ire for Jay and the coaching staff in this one... You think it was bad here try reading through the comments on talkbears...The whole play for a better pick bs spilled over to there and there was actual posts about playing McCown and going for a top 10 pick.

Meh, me arguing is all based off bucket, who supposedly has insider knowledge, saying Hahn and Co won't be punting on 2014. That to me means they're opening up the check book. Wite that lineup you posted would be fantastic...I'd also have Lexi bat 2nd in that lineup because as I said in another post Lexi, for the last 3 years, has batted .304/.343/.451 in 763 ABs with runners on. Having a guy ahead of him who has the ability to get on base at a good clip then increases the value of Lexi in the process. Lexi with no one on has batted .248/.285/.359. Also to that point, Adam Dunn the last 2 years has been a much better hitter with runners on as well (.731 ops vs .888 last year and .732 vs .782 this year) so I'd bat him 3rd....Adding a good "table setter" has a ripple effect that I think would turn this ball club around.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 16, 2013 -> 01:40 PM) When David DeJesus signed with the Cubs, he was 32 and had splits of .284/.356/.421/.776. During his age 30 season - Choo's current season - he put up splits of .318/.384/.443/.827 over 91 games. His age 31 season, he struggled mightily with the A's. With the Cubs, DeJesus put up a .258/.343/.403/.746 line. Through his age 30 season, Choo has a .289/.389/.466/.855 line. He's walked and slugged more, but they play similar styles. Choo putting up .260/.360/.415 is not out of the realm of possibility over the duration of the contract, and he could be a .250/.340/.380 type hitter or worse by the end of it. This is not a guy you give a lot of money too. As far as a quick fix...you don't worry about that. This is not a team that is in position for a quick fix. Sign a few guys who can be good players for 3-5 years to reasonable contracts, and call it an offseason. Given the pitching staff that's already in place I don't understand why the team isn't in the position for a "quick fix". Also with the whole players "suck" after 32 talk being thrown around there aren't gonna be a few guys to sign who will live up to that 3-5 years of being good. Salty is the only player under 30 who's worth noting and I doubt the Red Sox let him go...I know there will be some guys who get non tendered or whatever that are going to be added to the current list of FAs but chances are those guys won't be good.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Sep 16, 2013 -> 12:04 PM) No, the the $20m doesn't hurt you right now, it hurts you for like 3 seasons later, which happen to be the seasons you might actually have a chance at winning. Also, let's not ignore that defense. I know he doesn't belong in center, but with the Indians in 2012, he was a -16.7 defender in RF. That is insane-horribad. He's -15.6 so far this year. This is a guy who is worse than -30 runs defensively over the last two years. And he'll be 32. Come on guys, what happens to players after age 32? They get worse. And guys who already have huge flaws in their game (extreme platoon splits, garbage defense) tend to get real bad, really quickly. Why are you all so eager to pay for a 32 year old platoon player's career year all of a sudden? To add an embarrassingly bad defender to the most embarrassingly bad defense in the majors? You're not paying for prime Choo, you're paying for post-prime Choo. I love the OBP, but at this stage in his career, he's a hired gun on a contender that is willing to eat it for the final piece. That is not what this team needs. Maybe you guys haven't been watching lately -- this team BLOWS. I was at the game Saturday and left early for the first time in my life. It was just bad entertainment and not worth being there. I hadn't gone that far(a whole year, I know) into the defensive metrics to know he was that bad in RF as well so that kinda curves my enthusiasm a bit but I'd still take the upside here. I've been watching plenty enough and I think putting a guy like Choo atop the lineup, a guy like Abreu in the middle of the lineup(if he is who we hope he is), adding Semien over Beckham(see previous parenthesis), and then maybe trading/acquiring a guy for a CF and or a catcher will put us right back in contention next year. Ala the Cleveland Indians. There are guys out there who are still doin work over the age of 35 even, it's not a given that he'll be awful come age 36. I think a guy like him who has a good eye could even pick up a contract after the 5 year he might get this offseason.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 16, 2013 -> 10:58 AM) You are still paying a glorified platoon player $20 mill a year. Yes, he's very solid against RHP, but in 2 years he may be hitting .260 with no power. Do you really want to pay $20 mill a year for a guy who is putting up .260/.300/.400? With declining defense? Keep in mind those slugging numbers would probably be way worse There's definitely an argument to made against him, I won't deny that. To go along with what Lillian brought up and I elaborated on, the Sox see far more RHP, especially within the division so the fact that he rakes against RHP is a huge plus. De Aza has had 129 ABs vs LHP this year which is tops on the team. I know this has the potential to change from year to year but at this point, sans the Sox of course, our division is extremely RH heavy. His declining D won't look nearly as bad if they put him in LF. I'm also not convinced that hitters with a good eye will decline to the numbers you suggest....Will he be worth the 20M in years 4-5 of his contract? No probably not but for the first 3 he SHOULD be absolutely worth it.. The payroll right now is dirt cheap, signing a guy who like Choo for 20M a year won't hurt that much financially.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Sep 16, 2013 -> 10:35 AM) Do you guys really think we should sign Shin Soo Choo? 1. He'll be 32 2. He has always been injury prone 3. He will likely cost something like 5/$100m 4. He plays the same position as one of the only "building block" position players we have in the entire organization Someone will...Why not? He's played 58 games in LF so if they don't wanna move Garcia to left or center then I'm sure they can put Choo in left. Also he's only been hurt once the last 5 years so I wouldn't really call him injury prone. It certainly would be nice to have his obp sitting at the top of the lineup. Furthermore, there's a trickle down effect to having him up top.. Over the last 3 years Lexi has hit .304/.343/.451 with runners on so batting him 2nd behind Choo could be a huge plus for Lexi as well. Also Dunn has hit 32 points higher with an ops 61 points higher with runners in scoring position.

I'd love to see the Sox acquire Parra or Rasmus for CF. Sign me up for a Garcia-Parra/Rasmus-Choo outfield.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Sep 16, 2013 -> 09:23 AM) To say that Choo will cost to much is one thing, but to say that you don't want him at all is asinine. His bat is exactly what the Sox need. I agree, just not as a centerfielder. I haven't paid enough attention to know whether or not Avisail will be a good enough option in CF everyday. I suppose they can keep De Aza in CF, the benefits of having Choo in the lineup kinda outweighs subpar defense.

I'd like to believe the first few months of Gordo are what we'll get more consistently in the future but given his track record I have my doubts. I've never really liked the words "in his prime" but the one thing he's got going for him is he's "going into his prime"..."I won't cuss" if he's brought back and Semiens given another half a year in the minors, but I also "won't cuss" if he's gone and we see Semien starting from day 1. Oh, and I have no clue what he'll be worth money wise lol.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Sep 14, 2013 -> 03:57 PM) I haven't read anyone suggesting Shin Soo Chu, in quite a while. Why aren't more of you advocating his acquisition? His contract hasn't been extended has it? He's an On Base machine, left handed and a very good outfielder. I'd prefer him to Pence, mainly because he's a LH hitter. Chu is really good against RHP, and as I have pointed out before, our Division has very few good LH pitchers. The Sox could use several bats that would be effective vs. some of the very good right handers on the Tigers and Indians. My post got lost in the game thread so I'd like to dig it out and throw it in here...Hopefully its not viewed as "baiting the troll" This was of course in response to greg saying he "wouldn't cuss" if Paulie was brought back...The above post is what I referenced in my post. QUOTE (scs787 @ Sep 16, 2013 -> 07:30 AM) I would. It truly amazes me how much you hate Dunn but would be fine with PK being resigned. Another poster brought up Choo in another thread and talked about how he would be a good addition due to the fact that there are a ton of RHPs within the division and he smashes RHP. I thought this was a great point because our hitters have around 400 abs vs RHP and around 130 abs vs LHP so it makes sense to put a higher priority on hitters who hit RHP well, right? Here are the Dunn vs PK stats vs RHP... PK- .225/.291/.308 6 HRs 35 RBI (338 ABs) Dunn- .226/.328/.450 25 HRs 60 RBI (380) Sure PK can still smash LHP but he faces RHP nearly 3x as much. Just curious as to what Old Greg has to say about this. A Dunn/Konerko DH platoon could be sexy.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 15, 2013 -> 10:45 PM) Although I won't cuss if Paulie returns. I would. It truly amazes me how much you hate Dunn but would be fine with PK being resigned. Another poster brought up Choo in another thread and talked about how he would be a good addition due to the fact that there are a ton of RHPs within the division and he smashes RHP. I thought this was a great point because our hitters have around 400 abs vs RHP and around 130 abs vs LHP so it makes sense to put a higher priority on hitters who hit RHP well, right? Here are the Dunn vs PK stats vs RHP... PK- .225/.291/.308 6 HRs 35 RBI (338 ABs) Dunn- .226/.328/.450 25 HRs 60 RBI (380) Sure PK can still smash LHP but he faces RHP nearly 3x as much.

Obvious fast count that I'm sure will come back to change the outcome of the main event....Overall an awful PPV.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Sep 10, 2013 -> 12:10 PM) Terrel Pryor gonna be worth a roster spot? Remember I'm rockin the "awful" Cutler/Dalton tandem at QB. Thinking I might add Pryor (Dropping Redman with Bell already on my roster) and let it play out till I'm forced to make a move. Neither Cutler nor Dalton gave me any reason to cut either for Pryor. QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 10, 2013 -> 12:12 PM) Yes. He should probably start over those two Ugh.

QUOTE (flavum @ Sep 15, 2013 -> 04:27 PM) Huge loss for the Rays. Big game for the Indians, who could be a half game back of the Rays and Rangers. Whoda thunk it....a 90+ loss team last year contending this year...

As a former rugby player I love seeing the Bears doing a haka to begin the game...If that doesnt get you pumped up I don't know what will.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 15, 2013 -> 11:48 AM) This really isn't quite true. Despite taking on all that salary, a literally ridiculous amount of salary, the Blue Jays still sent along some decent talent. Here was one early reaction: For comparison, that seems qualitatively similar to the White Sox sending along Semien, Daniel Webb, Micah Johnson, Rienzo, and probably another piece while still taking on $150 million+. I think I'm misunderstanding the argument here. I thought Marty was saying the Sox, who would be the Blue Jays in this scenario, would be getting a good prospect back for taking on a bad contract. The Blue Jays didn't get back a good prospect, they gave up good prospects.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 15, 2013 -> 11:46 AM) I think the prices on the free agent market are going to be super inflated this year because of the lack of depth and new tv money. If you need a CF'er would you rather spend $70M+ on Ellsbury or trade a good prospect to get Upton at $30M? Depends what you mean by "good prospect". Sox will have plenty of money to spend with the money they freed up in the Peavy, Thornton, Crain and Rios deals to go along with PK and Floyd that if they really wanted to they can go balls out on Abreu and Ellsbury, and keep said "good prospect". I'd also rather have the guy who's shown the ability to get on base in Ellsbury over Upton. Hell, Uptons OBP makes ADAs OBP look good (32 points higher). I want a guy who gets on base to bat leadoff.