Lillian

Since I'n the one who started this thread, please allow me to clarify my intent. Adam Engel is not a "one tool" player, and he is intriguing because he has elite defensive skills and tools, for an important defensive position. Of course, it's the "if" that is problematic, and I agree that you could say that about any player; "if Davidson were an elite defender, with great speed, a great batting eye, terrific contact skills and a great baseball acumen, to go along with his considerable power, wouldn't he be something?". However, it is not necessary to stretch the imagination, in order to see Engel's realistic potential. He is really only lacking in one critical skill; he does not make consistent contact. We don't know what the cause is. Is he swinging at bad pitches, is it his approach, or bad mechanics? He has power and elite speed and athleticism, do go along with his stellar defense, but obviously he has got to figure out how to become a productive, or at least acceptable hitter. There is a reason that he was a pretty highly ranked prospect in our system, and why management is still trying to provide him with opportunities to develop, even at the MLB level. Apparently, those of us who are intrigued, are not alone. Look, hitting at the Major League level is incredibly difficult and is more of a learned skill, than a natural athletic gift. We are seeing plenty of guys initially look clueless, but later learn to be good hitters. You can't teach speed, athleticism or power, but you can teach hitting. It's a skill and you don't need to be big, or strong to do it well. Look at Altuve. That little guy is leading the League and his Slugging % is amazing, for a guy of such small stature. I'd just like to see Engel develop the ability to barrel up the ball. He would be a real stud. Again, I'll simply quote Future Sox, in their assessment: "Engel has true plus-plus speed, a strong arm and elite athleticism. He's gotten body comps to Mike Trout, and he's got enough strength that some scouts see latent power potential he's yet to tap into. Defensively, he's a true center fielder who tracks well, has the speed to cover a lot of ground and a very good arm, so that's already a foundation to work from."

QUOTE (Two-Gun Pete @ Sep 5, 2017 -> 07:04 PM) Yeah, Engel is a negative WAR player, at -0.4 fWAR in 71 games. Leury is at a +1.1 fWAR in 87 games. Leury was pretty good before the injury, and not as much thereafter. He's also got much more positional versatility than pretty much anyone else in the roster, and is a switch hitter. On balance, if it were a choice between Engel and Leury, I'd probably go with Leury, given that Engel simply can't hit enough to be a starter. I'm also not convinced that Engel is an overall better player than Tilson, but for Tilson being made of glass. I do like competition, and I would not count out any of our cavalcade of middling OF options for next season. I'd let Tilson, Engel, and Liriano duke it out for CF; I'd let Anderson and Leury duke it out @ SS for next season. I agree that, at this point, Leury is a better player, and will always have more versatility. That is not the debate here. I'm just intrigued by the elite defense, that Adam provides at a key defensive position, and the potential as a hitter, given his power and speed. That is a rare combination. But again. we all agree that he has to hit, which he hasn't yet been able to do.

He has power. His issues are contact, and pitch selection.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Sep 5, 2017 -> 06:45 PM) You can't play a guy with an OPS of 530 in any sort of role, not even off the bench. Sorry. Adam Engel is absolutely useless hitting that poorly. Let him go back to AAA next year and earn another chance but trotting him out in a competitive year? Ha, don't make me laugh. I think we all agree that his current skill level level with the bat is not acceptable. That is the point. We are contemplating how to get him to a respectable level, as a hitter, to go along with his elite defense and speed. So, you believe that he has just as good of a chance to do so, back in the Minors? Whether, or not, next year is a competitive year is a big question. I think it depends upon how fast the pitchers will be ready, as I have stated elsewhere. It's doubtful that Kopech and Hansen will be big contributors, that soon.

Leury was always regarded as a plus middle infielder, but the outfield is really new to him.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Sep 5, 2017 -> 06:00 PM) I don't think Leury is a poor defensive CF, although Engel is obviously better. Regarding his arm, I was unaware of that write-up, but every metric and the eye test have shown that his arm is nothing special. We'll see if it improves I agree that Leury is not a poor defender, but I doubt that he is any better than average.

Leury has done very well, but he does not have Engel's upside and he is not really a good defensive centerfielder. Regarding Engel's arm. My understanding is that his arm is highly regarded. Here is what Future Sox had to say: "Engel has true plus-plus speed, a strong arm and elite athleticism. He's gotten body comps to Mike Trout, and he's got enough strength that some scouts see latent power potential he's yet to tap into. Defensively, he's a true center fielder who tracks well, has the speed to cover a lot of ground and a very good arm, so that's already a foundation to work from." I just think that if he could hit .250 with an OBP of .330 plus and hit 20 - 25 homers, he would be a terrific player, the way he plays centerfield.

I'm 100% behind giving him the CF job, next year and giving him every opportunity to figure it out. You find fast, good defensive centerfielders, but rarely one with potential power and a good arm. It is so intriguing.

A guy with tools, but not really a very good baseball player, is one thing. But Engel has so much potential. Having had the opportunity to see him play, it is easy to see why the Sox have given him every opportunity to succeed, despite his poor offensive numbers. His defense is off the charts. I can't remember a better centerfielder on the Sox. He is right up there with Jim Landis and Ken Berry, from my kidhood days. He has plus-plus speed, great instincts, a good glove and a very good arm. Perhaps he just needs more time to learn how to hit. If there is any way that they can get hm to become even a .250 hitter, with power, which he certainly possess, he would be worth keeping in center, just for that Gold Glove in waiting. What do you think he needs to do to make better contact?

The Nats fans, on that forum, can't hold a candle to the people on Soxtalk. Makes one appreciate the great insight, which this site provides. Thank you, guys.

QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Sep 3, 2017 -> 03:47 PM) If you look at the numbers I posted earlier, he isn't hitting the ball significantly harder or hitting more line drives, yet his BABIP has increased signicantly, at a very unsustainable rate. He's bound to regress to somewhere around 1-2 WAR next year. Ok, however you don't see him beating out a lot of weak infield hits, or hitting Texas Leaguers.

The value of the BABIP stat is a little suspect. What is more significant is how the hitter is consistently "barreling up" the ball. If he is hitting lot's of line drives, rather than soft grounders and pop ups, his average simply reflects that. By contrast, if a hitter makes a lot of weak contact, it probably isn't simply bad luck that is causing his poor results. It appears that Avi is not trying to hit homers, and is not using an upper cut swing. His hits consistently have high exit velocity. If he continues that approach, it may not be unreasonable to expect him to have continued success. On the other hand, if he is to become more of a power hitter, he may have to alter his approach, which will significantly reduce his BABIP, and average.

Eloy has no protection in that Baron's lineup, and yet he is putting up the best numbers of his short career. It's surprising that opponents are still pitching to him.

Today is probably the realistic deadline and I haven't even seen a rumor. Have any of you heard anything?

Nice couple of innings for Burr. 4 K's in 2 innings, no base runners

QUOTE (BamaDoc @ Aug 29, 2017 -> 10:44 AM) I noticed in box scores, he is playing first and I think dh ing. I double checked and 11 games at third with 7 errors. 17 games at first 2 errors. 20 games as DH. Young enough to improve. Yikes!!!! 7 errors in 11 games, at third, does not sound encouraging. Have you seen a scouting report on his defense?

QUOTE (raBBit @ Aug 28, 2017 -> 12:57 PM) Kid is a beast. I hope he can pick it at third. To your point; how good is his defense?

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 26, 2017 -> 11:57 AM) A player is only eligible for a qualifying offer if they remain with 1 team the entire season. Once they are traded, they are no longer eligible for the offer. This does not affect Gonzalez's trade value one bit. Frankly, Miguel Gonzalez is likely a 5th starter at best, and the Sox just haven't gotten the offer they want yet. There's no rush. He just has to be gone by midnight on August 31st, which means he must be traded on or prior to August 30th. If he is traded on August 31st, he is not eligible for the postseason, which doesn't mean he can't be traded, but it would greatly diminish the need for a team to trade for him, and greatly diminishes his overall value. http://m.mlb.com/glossary/transactions/pos...son-eligibility Thanks for the clarification. I didn't know that. Since coming off the DL, he has held the opposition to 1 or fewer earned runs in 5 of the 8 starts, while going at least 6 innings, in all but one of those games. Only one of those 8 starts was not a "quality start". Wouldn't you think that someone could really use him, for the stretch run? We may be surprised at how good of a return the Sox get for him, if he is traded before the 31ST.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Aug 26, 2017 -> 11:44 AM) Why would it hurt trade negotiations? No one would ever consider giving him a QO so it's a non-issue. If a team is considering their options, once the season is over, it might diminish his perceived value to them, in that they would not get a draft pick, unless they were willing to make that kind of qualifying offer. So, it means they would receive no additional value, beyond his contribution, during the next month and a half. Is that not a valid consideration? I don't know.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 26, 2017 -> 11:30 AM) Will be upwards of $18 million. Wow, really? I'm surprised that it would require that much. That hurts. Maybe a qualifying offer isn't such a good idea, after all. I wonder if that isn't negatively affecting any current trade negotiations.

How much would the Sox have to commit to a qualifying offer? That might make sense, if no team steps up to offer a worthwhile prospect. It wouldn't be such a bad idea to sign him to a one year contract. Someone has to start, until the Sox are ready to bring up Kopech, and Hansen to join Rodon, Giolito, Lopez and Shields. At that point, next season, providing he is still performing, maybe they can deal him at the next trade deadline.

Look at Collin's split stats, for the season. He has very good numbers vs. RHP. That should be all that matters, because as a catcher, he is not likely to face many LH pitchers. He will be platooned, as are almost all catchers, in order to provide the necessary rest from the rigors of that position. Between Winston-Salem and his first few games at Birmingham, he is hitting approximately .250 with a .400 OBP and .500 slugging %, versus RHP. He's also hitting XBH at a rate of about 30 doubles and 30 homers.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Aug 25, 2017 -> 02:39 PM) I think you read some old scouting reports, because I don't he has any future at 3B anymore. Yes, the scouting report was indeed an old one. I couldn't find anything current, regarding his defense at third. So, you don't think that he is capable of playing solid defense there?

QUOTE (ptatc @ Aug 25, 2017 -> 02:15 PM) Bone contusion is not the correct term. It really should be the stress reaction terminology. But I think that will scare too many people. "Ptatc," should we be worried about Moncada's long term health, or is this the kind of thing that will heal? When I hear "shin splints,' I think of Micky Mantle. That was the condition to which was attributed his loss of, once dynamic speed. Is shin splints the correct label for this diagnosis?

This should help: http://www.chicagonow.com/future-sox/seby-zavala/