A guy with tools, but not really a very good baseball player, is one thing. But Engel has so much potential. Having had the opportunity to see him play, it is easy to see why the Sox have given him every opportunity to succeed, despite his poor offensive numbers. His defense is off the charts. I can't remember a better centerfielder on the Sox. He is right up there with Jim Landis and Ken Berry, from my kidhood days. He has plus-plus speed, great instincts, a good glove and a very good arm.

 

Perhaps he just needs more time to learn how to hit. If there is any way that they can get hm to become even a .250 hitter, with power, which he certainly possess, he would be worth keeping in center, just for that Gold Glove in waiting. What do you think he needs to do to make better contact?

 

A guy with tools, but not really a very good baseball player, is one thing. But Engel has so much potential. Having had the opportunity to see him play, it is easy to see why the Sox have given him every opportunity to succeed, despite his poor offensive numbers. His defense is off the charts. I can't remember a better centerfielder on the Sox. He is right up there with Jim Landis and Ken Berry, from my kidhood days. He has plus-plus speed, great instincts, a good glove and a very good arm.

 

Perhaps he just needs more time to learn how to hit. If there is any way that they can get hm to become even a .250 hitter, with power, which he certainly possess, he would be worth keeping in center, just for that Gold Glove in waiting. What do you think he needs to do to make better contact?

I don't think you can learn how to hit when you hit as badly as Engel. I will say his defense is amazing though.

If the Sox had any clue how to utilize speed on the basepaths I would say he has a solid role as a PR/defensive replacement on a good team, but they dont so its going to be really hard to fit him in. Keep giving him AB's though...who knows maybe he'll start hitting.

I'm 100% behind giving him the CF job, next year and giving him every opportunity to figure it out. You find fast, good defensive centerfielders, but rarely one with potential power and a good arm. It is so intriguing.

I'm 100% behind giving him the CF job, next year and giving him every opportunity to figure it out. You find fast, good defensive centerfielders, but rarely one with potential power and a good arm. It is so intriguing.

Yes agree. Sorry Tilso and sorry Leury. This guy makes highlight reel catches. He has a knack for the incredible with his instincts. I love having him out there next year.

 

And i love Engel in the Outfield!

When this team is good, he'd be a useful late inning defensive replacement.

He has plus-plus speed, great instincts, a good glove and a very good arm.

 

I'm 100% behind giving him the CF job, next year and giving him every opportunity to figure it out. You find fast, good defensive centerfielders, but rarely one with potential power and a good arm. It is so intriguing.

I think his arm is actually below average- and what about Leury?

Leury has done very well, but he does not have Engel's upside and he is not really a good defensive centerfielder.

Regarding Engel's arm. My understanding is that his arm is highly regarded. Here is what Future Sox had to say:

 

"Engel has true plus-plus speed, a strong arm and elite athleticism. He's gotten body comps to Mike Trout, and he's got enough strength that some scouts see latent power potential he's yet to tap into. Defensively, he's a true center fielder who tracks well, has the speed to cover a lot of ground and a very good arm, so that's already a foundation to work from."

 

I just think that if he could hit .250 with an OBP of .330 plus and hit 20 - 25 homers, he would be a terrific player, the way he plays centerfield.

Edited September 5, 20178 yr by Lillian

Play em all and let baseball sort it out.

 

Aside from 2b and that possibly not human thing that we'll see take over a corner OF spot midseason, that's my plan for pretty much every position next year.

Leury has done very well, but he does not have Engel's upside and he is not really a good defensive centerfielder.

Regarding Engel's arm. My understanding is that his arm is highly regarded. Here is what Future Sox had to say:

 

"Engel has true plus-plus speed, a strong arm and elite athleticism. He's gotten body comps to Mike Trout, and he's got enough strength that some scouts see latent power potential he's yet to tap into. Defensively, he's a true center fielder who tracks well, has the speed to cover a lot of ground and a very good arm, so that's already a foundation to work from."

 

I just think that if he could hit .250 with an OBP of .330 plus and hit 20 - 25 homers, he would be a terrific player, the way he plays centerfield.

I don't think Leury is a poor defensive CF, although Engel is obviously better.

 

Regarding his arm, I was unaware of that write-up, but every metric and the eye test have shown that his arm is nothing special. We'll see if it improves

I don't think Leury is a poor defensive CF, although Engel is obviously better.

 

Regarding his arm, I was unaware of that write-up, but every metric and the eye test have shown that his arm is nothing special. We'll see if it improves

 

I agree that Leury is not a poor defender, but I doubt that he is any better than average.

I agree that Leury is not a poor defender, but I doubt that he is any better than average.

Both DRS and UZR have him coming out at basically being an average CF during his time there.

 

And of course, that's while being a platoon player and not being able to focus on the position.

I would love Engel to be able to hit, even a minimal amount.

I'm 100% behind giving him the CF job, next year and giving him every opportunity to figure it out. You find fast, good defensive centerfielders, but rarely one with potential power and a good arm. It is so intriguing.

 

Yes agree. Sorry Tilso and sorry Leury. This guy makes highlight reel catches. He has a knack for the incredible with his instincts. I love having him out there next year.

 

And i love Engel in the Outfield!

 

I agree about giving Engel another shot as starting CFer next season. I think Leury should be given a shot at the starting SS job going into next season. If Anderson is to make it, let him compete and earn it. If Anderson does beat him out, Leury still is valuable as a super utility guy.

You can't play a guy with an OPS of 530 in any sort of role, not even off the bench. Sorry. Adam Engel is absolutely useless hitting that poorly. Let him go back to AAA next year and earn another chance but trotting him out in a competitive year? Ha, don't make me laugh.

Leury was always regarded as a plus middle infielder, but the outfield is really new to him.

Leury was always regarded as a plus middle infielder, but the outfield is really new to him.

Right. And now that he has come around with the bat, he deserves a shot at the SS job. Anderson should not be annointed as the starting SS but should have to earn it. Let them both compete for the job next year.

You can't play a guy with an OPS of 530 in any sort of role, not even off the bench. Sorry. Adam Engel is absolutely useless hitting that poorly. Let him go back to AAA next year and earn another chance but trotting him out in a competitive year? Ha, don't make me laugh.

 

I think we all agree that his current skill level level with the bat is not acceptable. That is the point. We are contemplating how to get him to a respectable level, as a hitter, to go along with his elite defense and speed. So, you believe that he has just as good of a chance to do so, back in the Minors?

 

Whether, or not, next year is a competitive year is a big question. I think it depends upon how fast the pitchers will be ready, as I have stated elsewhere. It's doubtful that Kopech and Hansen will be big contributors, that soon.

Edited September 6, 20178 yr by Lillian

I think we all agree that his current skill level level with the bat is not acceptable. That is the point. We are contemplating how to get him to a respectable level, as a hitter, to go along with his elite defense and speed. So, you believe that he has just as good of a chance to do so, back in the Minors?

 

He needs to completely re-tool his swing. The hitch in his swing will not ever allow him to hit above 230ish at the MLB level. And he's not going to walk or hit for much power either so he needs to be in the 270 range to be passable.

 

He's gotta retool this offseason and try and work on it in the high minors next year.

He has power. His issues are contact, and pitch selection.

Yeah, Engel is a negative WAR player, at -0.4 fWAR in 71 games.

 

Leury is at a +1.1 fWAR in 87 games.

 

Leury was pretty good before the injury, and not as much thereafter. He's also got much more positional versatility than pretty much anyone else in the roster, and is a switch hitter.

 

 

On balance, if it were a choice between Engel and Leury, I'd probably go with Leury, given that Engel simply can't hit enough to be a starter. I'm also not convinced that Engel is an overall better player than Tilson, but for Tilson being made of glass.

 

 

I do like competition, and I would not count out any of our cavalcade of middling OF options for next season. I'd let Tilson, Engel, and Liriano duke it out for CF; I'd let Anderson and Leury duke it out @ SS for next season.

Yeah, Engel is a negative WAR player, at -0.4 fWAR in 71 games.

 

Leury is at a +1.1 fWAR in 87 games.

 

Leury was pretty good before the injury, and not as much thereafter. He's also got much more positional versatility than pretty much anyone else in the roster, and is a switch hitter.

 

 

On balance, if it were a choice between Engel and Leury, I'd probably go with Leury, given that Engel simply can't hit enough to be a starter. I'm also not convinced that Engel is an overall better player than Tilson, but for Tilson being made of glass.

 

 

I do like competition, and I would not count out any of our cavalcade of middling OF options for next season. I'd let Tilson, Engel, and Liriano duke it out for CF; I'd let Anderson and Leury duke it out @ SS for next season.

 

I agree that, at this point, Leury is a better player, and will always have more versatility. That is not the debate here. I'm just intrigued by the elite defense, that Adam provides at a key defensive position, and the potential as a hitter, given his power and speed. That is a rare combination. But again. we all agree that he has to hit, which he hasn't yet been able to do.

Edited September 6, 20178 yr by Lillian

Yeah, Engel is a negative WAR player, at -0.4 fWAR in 71 games.

 

Leury is at a +1.1 fWAR in 87 games.

 

Leury was pretty good before the injury, and not as much thereafter. He's also got much more positional versatility than pretty much anyone else in the roster, and is a switch hitter.

 

 

On balance, if it were a choice between Engel and Leury, I'd probably go with Leury, given that Engel simply can't hit enough to be a starter. I'm also not convinced that Engel is an overall better player than Tilson, but for Tilson being made of glass.

 

 

I do like competition, and I would not count out any of our cavalcade of middling OF options for next season. I'd let Tilson, Engel, and Liriano duke it out for CF; I'd let Anderson and Leury duke it out @ SS for next season.

 

I highly doubt SS gets any of the treatment you are suggesting. And if the plan is for Davidson to man 3B all year, then Leury's only chance at a starting gig is CF. Personally I think Leury is the perfect super-sub and I'd rather see a Tilson/Engel CF, leaning Engel.

I do like competition, and I would not count out any of our cavalcade of middling OF options for next season. I'd let Tilson, Engel, and Liriano duke it out for CF; I'd let Anderson and Leury duke it out @ SS for next season.

As it should be.

No offense, but spring training competition is horses***. They know who is on the team before they get there, and then it's a matter if a player is lazy, showing up late, etc.

 

The only exception may be the last bullpen arm or two, and that's just hoping for the best. Kahnle didn't make the team, and he ended up getting them Rutherford.