beautox

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 11:23 AM) I think if the Sox could move Buehrle and his contract, that works too. Either way I see a lot of possibilities between a Floyd or Jackson that could make sense. The key is the Sox would still have to spin for another pitcher. Whether that is Garza or even a Grienke, I don't know. Because moving one of Floyd/Jackson for Joba/Gardner is going to open a whole in the rotation while filling a hole in our bullpen and freeing up some salary. Offensively we improve as well. I'm with you; put the yanks over the coals. If we're not getting a major league piece and some salary relief {pierre or teahen}; i want two of the three "b's" coming back {Banuelos, Betances or Brackman} and Romine. Yes i realize thats a ridiculous asking price; but the yanks are backed against a wall, i cant see TB giving them Garza and ZG will not goto NY; and lastly they've already tried Pavano before.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 09:12 AM) That's the easy response. But they spend on the draft and have become a player development machine. Look at their current core, guys all in their 20's that came up through their system: Pedroia, Youk, Ellsbury, Lester, Buchholz, Papelbon and Bard. You're talking all-star to MVP caliber right there. When your system can produce that much then yes, it's A LOT easier to flex your financial muscle. And then have enough to land a bonafide superstar (Gonzalez) and still have valuable pieces in the system? I won't discount the financial advantages they have. But it's certainly not as simple as "well, they can spend x amount of dollars." Seriously its too easy and a cop out to just say "well they have so much money". As you said if you look up and down their roster most everything has been bought and paid for by their farm system. There have been some washes {hanley for beckett}. But the way the red sox have been able to previously manipulate the draft in the past by signing/trading for all those type A rentals and then offering ARB and letting them walk for first, sandwich and second round picks is really a testament to their scouting and player development.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 07:55 AM) Youth Movement = spending $300 million on Carl Crawford and Adrian Gonzalez. i said quasi quasi- combining form seemingly; apparently but not really having said that and getting back on topic, yes the red sox just dropped a ton of coin on crawford and gonzalez, but they've still got a strong farm to supplement talent at the major league level and up the middle no less. I also think Boston signs Martin and he turns it around in Fenway.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 07:36 AM) I definitely see Mike Cameron being involved in such a deal. Indeed. Boston's quasi youth movement is going to be fun to watch between this season and next. I think they give the keys to Lowrie and move Scutaro for pieces as well, and then after JD drew leaves next year or gets hurt during this year they have Kalish and Nava ready to step in, all though i think Nava breaks camp as the 4th OF and Kalish gets a bit more polish at AAA.

QUOTE (Pale Sox @ Dec 13, 2010 -> 11:33 PM) Yeah, the Rays might be the biggest winners of this deal (Phils aside). Agreed; but it appears the Yanks are going to be locked out of nearly all the talent thats available via trade. I can't forsee the rays trading garza within the division to the yanks and they don't have ML ready prospects or talent to fill the holes that the rays have. Also on the ZG front, I might be mistaken but I could've sworn, he said he wouldn't goto a big market club like New York.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Dec 10, 2010 -> 04:43 PM) 10:40am: The Cubs are one of four teams in the mix for Rays righty Matt Garza, reports ESPN's Bruce Levine. The Rays are interested in receiving prospects in return. I realize the rays have lost a lot this offseason but quite frankly they are not that far off from competing again in '11. They need to trade Garza for a cost controlled DH and 1B and sign someone like Jenks. The rays and marlins have a propensity for turning figurative s*** into gold in their respective bullpens, I'm actually very curious as too what Russell and Ramos can do for them in Tampa.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Dec 10, 2010 -> 05:05 PM) Quentin and specs for Garza goddamnit. Then deal a starter for OF AND RP help. Trading Q for relievers alone scares the s*** out of me. I would love to see this happen. Personally if we do land Garza i'm not very keen on turning around and moving a starter, I don't think Peavy will be back till June. If we're really "all in" I would love too see the four following things happen for this offseason. 1.) Trade Quentin and Viciedo for Garza and a prospect 2.) Burn down the farm to go get Soria 3.) Trade for Beltran(18.5m) with a swap of bad contracts for Teahen(4.75m + 5.5m) and some $(6m?) coming from the mets {thats a saving of 2.25m for them) 4.) Sign LHP Andrew Miller L Pierre LF R Beckham 2B S Beltran RF R Konerko 1B L Dunn DH R Rios CF R Ramirez SS L AJ C R Morel 3B SP - Danks, Jackson, Buehrle, Floyd, Garza BP - Soria, Thornton, Sale, Santos, Infante, Miller, Pena Bench - Castro, Lillibridge, Vizquel, DeAza win. It would be a lot to burden for this season; but going into 2012 we shed a ton of payroll: Beltran(18.5), Jackson(8.35), Buehrle(14), Pierre(8.5), Thornton(3m), Vizquel(1.75) and Castro(1.2) would all be coming off the books(55.3m). Going into that offseason the FA market looks pretty thin outside of Prince and Albert the outfield options look something like this Michael Cuddyer, Jason Kubel, Carlos Beltran and J.D. Drew. Our rotation going into '12 is still in tact with Sale and hopefully a healthy Peavy. We could also re-sign Threets, by that time he should be healthy. I also imagine going into that offseason we would be offering ARB to Thornton & Jackson and possibly Buehrle depending on Peavy's health and how he performs this year.

With the royals waiting for the cliff lee sweepstakes to end before moving Grienke and possibly Gordon, I'm curious if they will be moving Soria in addition to that. Most of their pitching depth in the minors will not be ready till '12, and Soria's very friendly team contract (4m in '11, *6m in '12, *8m in '13, *8.75 in '13) runs out in '13 he will be 30 that year. Looking at the royals farm and major league roster they are very thin up the middle. I imagine some of that will be addressed with ZGs trade in the near future; but i wonder if the sox have enough to go out and get Soria. If KW is serious about being "all in" and not wanting to address relief options on the free agent market Kenny Williams I wonder if Dayton Moore's affinity for anyone who once had a connection to the braves organization, in addition to Wil Myers being a ways off and possibly having to move off C. Maybe selling high on the helium of Escobar, Viciedo and throwing in Flowers as well as an arm like Infante or Rodriguez might be enough to pry Soria from KC. {yes i realize KC is pretty deep at CI}

QUOTE (Lillian @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 04:40 AM) I posted this on Whitesox Interactive: http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbullet...694#post2660694 What do you think? I think that Scutaro gets traded to the CIN, SEA or SFG - for a bullpen arm or low minor high upside arms I think they keep Drew and trade Cameron to DET or LAD - " "

QUOTE (Lillian @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 03:08 AM) The last thing for which the Sox need to trade is another starting pitcher. Jackson will not be a free agent at the end of this season. He only has 4.07 years of ML service time. He'll be a free agent after the 2012 season. Quentin is the best hitter we have to provide Dunn some protection, and should bat 5th. I agree that he is not a good enough defender to play RF, but then I've covered that subject pretty well in other posts. wite already addressed it below, but jackson is a FA after this season. I just think it would be prudent to get another starter for our continued strength going forward. 2011 2012 2013 Buehrle Danks Floyd Danks Floyd Garza Floyd Peavy Sale Jackson Garza Peavy**/ ? Peavy(?)/Pena/Sale* Sale ? Garza *Sale in the BP ** Peavy's opition It appears going into '11 sale will be used strictly out of the bullpen; I would rather the organization take its time with Peavy coming back and not risk re-injuring himself in addition to setting up rotation for 2012 & 2013, I think Pena could potentially be serviceable but KW has always put a precedent on our rotation and this hypothetical situation just makes alot of sense between both teams; thats all. OS: What is boston going to do now that Crawford is locked up, i wonder if we see Cameron and Scutaro moved. From a baseball perspective im looking forward to seeing what lowrie and the red sox in general do next year edit: code tags

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 01:37 AM) I like Garza. But why exactly do we need another SP right now when we've already got 50+ million invested in our current rotation? For a number of reasons: Going into 2011 we don't know what Peavy's health is going to be, he might not even break ST with the sox and he could regress, if not, its never a bad thing to have too much starting pitching, if Peavy is healthy then it allows you to work out an extension with danks/garza or at the deadline or possibly move one of our pitchers not named Buehrle or Peavy. We have situation looming ahead of us with our rotation. Buehrle & Jackson are both FA after this upcoming season, Peavy and Danks in 2012, unless Peavy pitches like his former cy young self the next two years, I don't foresee us picking up his 22m option for 2013, Floyd's a FA after 2013. Garza would be a free agent the same offseaon as Floyd. It would serve the sox well to know what they have going into the 2013 season with a good looking core of Floyd, Garza and Sale. Lastly Quentin is not fit to play RF and he is made of glass, i'm of the feeling he would've made a very good DH but now we have the best DH in the AL so its redundant to keep him on the roster and in addition to that unless Dayan is going to Learn RF with konerkos signing it doesn't make sense to keep him, unless we are going to string him along like the angels did morales. Like i previously stated the rays are pitching rich but need cost effective solutions at 1B and DH, unless their going to use Dan Johnson which if they are going to compete in the east this year they're going to need something with a bit more upside.

With the rays seemingly looking to deal Garza; I think the white sox match up very well. The rays need a 1B and DH that are cost controlled, and once the bartlett deal goes through in the morning they will have a little bit of money to sign a closer for one year to fill out their bullpen possibly even Jenks. I think viciedo + quentin and maybe a high upside relief arm for garza is a distinct possibility.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Dec 7, 2010 -> 05:32 PM) The bullpen panic is funny to me. We have 3 legitimate relief options in Thornton, Santos, and Pena, and a 4th in Sale. Yet people are saying we have 1 reliever. I'm of the same mindset as you; the market is flooded with decent relief options and potential high upside pick ups. in addition to that we have some back end material in infante, nunez and santos rodriguez and that wavier wire claim from SF. I would like to see the sox go after these relief options out there. Joel Peralta, Andrew Miller, George Sherril, Hideki Okajima, Takashi Saito. or maybe trade to get bell or broxton.

QUOTE (smalls2598 @ Dec 5, 2010 -> 08:57 PM) Rotoworld is speculating that the Jays are attempting to acquire prospects to trade for Greinke I wouldn't be surprised if they had the pieces to get both geinke and gordon. something like Snider, Lawrie, Drabek and Perez or D’Arnaud, both toronto and kc match up very well.

As a marlins fan Beinfest has made some pretty s***ty player evaluations lately: Olsen and Willingham for Bonifacio, The whole cabrera deal, letting cody ross go for nothing and now uggla for a utility infielder and a decent looking left handed reliever.

I know this has been discussed a ton over the past few years; but with A-Gons pending free agency and the fact we could really use an established LH 1B, i would love to see KW use Escobar's helium rise in the AFL coupled with Viciedo's modest showing in the show and something like a throw in like Danks 2.0 and see if the padres would be interested. In addition to that i wonder if as previously discussed on these boards Sizemore or Upton might be had for a potential injury riddled swap with Quentin. Sizemore has 16m remaining on his contract through '12. Move Pierre and Teahen while paying most if not all of their combined salary for some project arms ala thornton and threets, maybe someone like Cesar Ramos of San Diego. try to find a potential non tender trade target partner for jenks Sign one of Crawford or Werth and one of Manny or Vlad, call it an off season. re-up with andruw. Ideal opening day line up L Crawford LF R Beckham 2B L Sizemore RF/CF R Rios CF/RF L A-Gon 1B R Manny/Vlad DH R Ramirez SS L AJ R Morel

Ten days in and 10 pounds down, feeling great and have a ton of energy

thanks everyone, ill be spending my evening watching johnny cupcakes lecture at columbia followed by some p90x yoga.

three days ago i started p90x with my girl friend; we're doing the lean version. needless to say it has kicked my ass but i love every second of it. in addition to p90x i ride a bike 6 miles a day and have decent three day long distance running regime in place. I'm 6'4 and my weight is 288 pounds, i don't need muscle mass as i've had plenty of it in the past im just looking to trim down and get tone. Also we have both changed our diets to phase I cold turkey pun intended. wish me luck as of today i am 25 and looking to get into as good of shape as i was in senior year hs.

Going into next season im looking forward to the white sox defense, between morel, ramirez and beckham it could be very exciting. If the sox decide Viciedo is going to man 1B, i think he could be above average there as well.

QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Sep 15, 2010 -> 11:46 PM) Not sure who should go, but neither one will. If I had my pick I'd say Kenny Williams, it seems he just makes trades now for the sake of trading and has now shipped 3 excellent starting pitchers...all young...all cheap to other teams for overpriced players (Peavy), crappy players (Swisher) or guys who won't be around very long anyway (Jackson). Having faith in the young guys, faith in your coaching would have eliminated the necessity of having to go get Jake Peavy or Edwin Jackson, which would have freed up money to address the disgusting situation at third base. And speaking of third base, what drug was Williams on thinking a guy who Kansas City dumped off third base could come to Chicago and man that position? Mark Teahen plays terrible terrible defense and has absolutely no power for a corner fielder. So what is his use again? On a championship team? All told the outfield wasn't halfbad even with CQ's struggles this year. Rios had a good year...Quentin could still get to 30 homers and Piere will steal 60+ bases. Although defensively the OF is still average at best. It appears none of the players obtained for Vazquez will amount to much. Flowers will need to really come on next year, but overall he looks awful. Lillibridge wasn't so bad, but looks to me like a utility type. Given what we have given up for players, it seems we surely didn't max our value for Javy. Kenny Williams is just like the dude in your fantasy league who just likes making trades. I've been thinking alot about this since the sox traded for jackson. As much as we sox fans rag on our farm system and complain about its rankings; it has produced some very solid major leaguers. I like other posters just wish KW could the teams long term financial stability into its proper perspective as well as letting our farm system bail us out. I doubt any GM would've kept this core but its interesting to think about; the white sox could've fielded a very competitive homegrown or acquired team on the cheap with plenty of money to lock them up long term, acquire whatever was needed and invest internationally and in the draft. TL;DR Sox could've fielded a good cheap homegrown team *some cherry picking moves* DH - {Quentin} Re-signing Thome or PK in the offseason C - Huge hole here, re up with AJ or make a bold trade in the offseason 1B - Brandon Allen or Vicideo 2B - Beckham SS - Ramirez 3B - Morel LF - Rios {Quentin} CF - Young RF - Sweeney {Quentin} SP - Danks SP - Floyd SP - Gonzalez SP - Hudson SP - Richard LR - Poreda LO - Logan MR - Jenks MR - Infante SU - Santos SU - Thornton CL - Sale to me its kind of mind blowing how much above average talent the sox have given up, if they could've just done a better job evaluating from within in addition to the shrewd pick ups they acquired {Santos, Threets, Floyd, Quentin, Rios, Thornton & Jenks} they would be a model of efficiency.

I hope rios enters sept. like he entered and finished may; Apr 29, 2010 to May 30, 2010 .343/.400/.667 1.067

I hope we can turn it around

QUOTE (Dizzy Sox @ Aug 28, 2010 -> 08:23 PM) Wow, bad news for Threets, who was finally having some success at the big leauge level. Best of luck to him. Indeed, well at least he gets to collect that big league pay check for a while. when he comes back we could be looking at another matt thornton situation again!, he'll be 30 and i might be mistaken but he will still have 6 years of service.

i will be there as well, out in RF