Dick Allen

Miller was a top 10 prospect no so long ago and still has done a decent job on the major league level and is controlled for several more years. I don't understand why some think this is a steal. The Braves usually don't make really bad trades.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 10:31 AM) Webb is a guy who just needs to start in a less intense role. Give him the 5th/6th maybe 7th inning work. Let him get his reps and earn a move up to the later innings. No reason to rush him. According to Soxtalk, it was just the opposite. The idiot manager didn't realize he had an 8th inning pitcher on his roster.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 10:33 AM) Miller is also going to cost around $40 million for 4 years, and he's been fairly inconsistent as well. It's no surprise that the White Sox have interest in Miller but if they ultimately sign him for $10 mill a year over 4 years, I'll be a bit upset. It's better than spending $7 million a year on Downs and Belisario.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 10:01 AM) This is legal. This is what the Astros have been doing with their prospects before bringing them to the majors. I am OK with it. The FA market is pretty strong at the top and then thins out very quickly. To me this is a situation akin to Byron Buxton being declared a free agent, yes there is some risk, but to acquire a star level player is worth more to me than taking a chance on some re-tread. With his talent level he could use one more year in the minors and then fill a hole on the roster for the next six years at a minimal cost over that duration. Yes it make take the Sox out of being as large of players in FA this season, but they will have the same amount of money to spend next year when they can go after an OF like Upton, Heyward, Cespedes, or Austin Jackson, and find a RHSP like Cueto, Latos, Fister or Gallardo to round out the rotation. I am totally fine punting FA this year as I think the team is going to need some time to develop SP this season as Noesi and Rodon try to take steps forward and they get another year to determine what they have in Beck, Johnson, and Danish and figure out the bullpen situation. It also leaves money free in case Shohei Otani is posted next fall. The other piece to remember is that the Sox will be saving ~$7M in the next two seasons in international spending, money which can be re-allocated to bringing in some additional bullpen arms. Many fans may be different but to me it is much more about acquiring assets that can keep the Sox competitive over the long term than a race to see when the Sox can be competitive. You might be OK with it, but if the White Sox are as broke as some here seem to think, they aren't going to spend all the cash they have for the next couple of years on a guy who is probably 2 or 3 years away from contributing. They cannot and will not punt these seasons. If you do that, you might as well trade Sale and Abreu. Then you would have the best system in baseball. If they can afford him and still throw money into the major league team, that is the only way they should consider him.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 09:19 AM) I've still got nothing after looking through a variety of stats. We're not the worst in 9th inning ERA, we're just about as bad in the 9th as we were in 7th-9th, and in all cases not historically so, a couple teams were worse in every ranking. We're 6th from the bottom in fWAR out of the bullpen. Pretty much every stat you want, we're ~bottom 5, with the same teams about tied with us and the same teams worse than us. I know it's tempting to say this is the worst bullpen in history and all we have to do is moderately improve it and we'll be competing for the central but it's just not true. This was a bad bullpen, but not ridiculously so, and pretty much every stat says the same thing. A great bullpen would be a big boost but it wouldn't make this anywhere close to an 88 win team on its own. Why aren't you taking percentages into account? And if they were just as bad in the 7th inning, it shows the bullpen cost them when the game was tied or they were down a run or 2 but got blown out when a blown save wasn't recorded. The bullpen was horrible. The team won 73 games, but some of that was because guys like Wilkins were playing. If they were playing to win as much as possible after they were basically non contenders, it isn't inconceivable this team would have won 2 or 3 more. There needs to be several moves made, but a solid bullpen makes this team a lot better.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 16, 2014 -> 03:26 PM) I know it sounds like a nice easy thing to do, oh just don't blow 1/2 of those saves, but go a step deeper. Exactly 1 team in all of MLB had 11 blown saves or fewer - the Padres. Even the Royals tallied more blown saves than that. So to say yours a different way, "If their bullpen was replaced by a bullpen even better than the Royals, they'd have been above .500!". Does that put into context how truly huge of a jump that would require? You aren't taking everthing into account. Teams that win more games have more save opportunities. The Royals save percentage was over 80. The White Sox was barely 60. Oakland, Hoistin and Colorado were worse. And that is just save opportunities. No telling how many other games that were either tied or they were trailing by a run and might have been able to win except for bullpen failure.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Nov 16, 2014 -> 01:58 PM) So there's no gameclock right now... 7:12 left in the quarter according to ESPN.

Except for the fumble hat he was lucky wasn't called and the unsportsmanslike conduct penalty, Cutler has been All Pro quality today.

A key penalty stops the Bears again.

That was a sweet play by Cutler.he has so much ability, but obviously his brain will always hold him back.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Nov 16, 2014 -> 11:41 AM) DA's "sources" are about as worthwhile as my inferences IMO, neither has any 100% ground in certainty. The Middlebrooks stuff is just hearsay. I don't believe that many FOs are operating by committee and I don't believe the Sox are either. Committees don't work because there is no accountability. The buck has to stop somewhere and I have a very, very, very hard time believing Hahn would operate without 100% full authority because as an up and coming, young executive it would be career suicide to hitch his wagon to a setup where he is the GM but doesn't have full authority. KW had about as much to do with the Abreu signing as Clay Davenport (as another voice saying HEY THIS GUY IS GONNA BE REALLY GOOD). Hahn negotiated the deal, just like he negotiated the Sale and Q deals. I never said my source was accurate but here are some quotes from the actual people that shows your scenerio is wrong http://chicago.sbnation.com/chicago-white-...e-sox-rick-hahn And here is one where KW says he has veto power http://m.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article/423...ess-of-being-gm And here is the detail of the Abreu signing. It was KW and JR. http://www.suntimes.com/sports/27118486-57...ml#.VGj2Zn5OKrU

Stupid penalties, check. Poor special teams, check. They get a huge break on a Cutler fumble (check)), yet it doesn't matter. Still a few minutes left in the first quarter. I really hope they either turn it around and win or get blown out again.

If the team who signs him has to pay a $40-50 million penalty when would that be due. And for the people with their eyes on the balance sheet, doesn't that eliminate the White Sox from consideration?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 16, 2014 -> 09:11 AM) Yeah, I was trying to guess in my mind what the Mike Stanton of 2027 would be getting as a free agent $40 million? $50 million? The opt out will take risk away.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 16, 2014 -> 07:31 AM) Frank Clark arrested for domestic violence. He missed one game for felony robbery. Will he be back for the game? Stealing laptops and beating up chicks isn't nearly as horrible as getting paid to sign things or doing bongs in your dorm room. C'mon man.

This is imeresting http://chicagosuntimes.com/sports/chill-th...rone-to-injury/

QUOTE (Jake @ Nov 15, 2014 -> 12:49 PM) It's worth bearing in mind that 13 years from now, $30 million per year is going to be the number that guys like Nick Swisher get Maybe, but the Cubs aren't cashing in on a TV contract, and that $2 million a game ship may have sailed. Of course 13 years from now, they will probably be making money off things we can't even think of now.

If he is ready to go in 90 days, is it the Cubs who are out? Supposedly the teams with the most people at his showcase were the Red Sox, Yankees, and Cubs.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 14, 2014 -> 03:17 PM) It really would be funny if they gave up 50 to Minnesota. We are to the point, since the playoffs are out of the question, where Bears fans can't lose. If the Bears win, great. If they lose, it's pure comedy for the next week.

If you guarantee me $325-350 million the next 13 years and don't want to give me a no trade, there isn't a major league city I wouldn't love to play in. He has to sign this. It is crazy money.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 14, 2014 -> 02:16 PM) I agree with that. A deal to make if you miss on your OF/SP targets. And if you get those targets but still have something left over the Astros want and you are willing to dump. I have the feeling this offseason will either really excite people or really bum people out. I don't think there will be much meh.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 14, 2014 -> 02:12 PM) I feel like everything I see referenced comes from StatCorner: http://www.statcorner.com/CatcherReport.php Do you remember which other sources you've seen? I feel like Baseball prospectus had their own but I can't find anything other than Team Rankings Someone had one in one of the threads here a week or so ago and Flowers was #11. And that jived with one I saw around midseason showing the same. Flowers awful/Flowers really good.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 14, 2014 -> 02:07 PM) Because, at the time, he had a reputation as an above average defender. This past year, he graded out as one of the worst receivers out there. I'm guessing he probably was always worse than his reputation and that we're just now gaining more insight into how to measure it. But yeah, my desire for Salty was always predicated on the probably erroneous idea that he was at least a slightly above-average defender overall. Castro is better than Flowers, but IMO, there are bigger fish to fry. I'd keep all the trade assets available for the bigger fish and if you keep getting shutdown, then go after this upgrade.

I forget where I read the story, and really don't know if it is true, but there was something out there last year that in the Peavy trade, Hahn was prepared to do the trade with Middlebrooks included and that KW shot that down. Eventually they reworked it and got Avi.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 14, 2014 -> 01:54 PM) I hope it's for a good defender. Bat is gravy for me. What changed your mind? You used to be pretty gung ho for Salty? The concept of pitch framing makes a lot of sense, and the better framers should be worth a lot more than the poorer ones. I just think there are too many factors that cause some strikes to be balls and some balls to be strikes other than the catcher. The two different formulas I have seen used, most of the top 5 are the same except for order, but below that, there is a wide variance. Flowers is terrible in one and one of the better framers in another.