Dick Allen

QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 02:28 PM) It should be noted that said former closer was exactly a league average reliever last year. How much do you think O.O WAR is worth? He was 1.7 in 2013 when he had to be moved. Duke was 1.3 last year and it got him $15 million for 3 years. Interesting Steamer has them both at 0.3 next season. Looks like he would have been a bargain to hang on to.

When Andrew Friedman went to the Dodgers, posters were writing Friedman with the Dodgers money as basically being unfair. Why do they now want the White Sox to deal with him, and think KW and Hahn will pull off a coup?

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 02:01 PM) This is the kind of guy that the Sox bullpen needs though. Another thread talked about leadership, Duke has done it all from a pitching standpoint. As a rookie, he looked like he was going to be the real deal, but eventually bombed as a starter then bombed in his transition to the bullpen, but kept working at it and is now getting some pretty good results. The bullpen is going to be pretty young next year, and someone who has the perspective of handling a lot of adversity can be a good leader for that group. Hes a solid bullpen arm, can go multiple innings if needed, and throws left handed. The contract is not large by the context of what other players have been getting or what I think they will continue to get in FA. Why was a certain former White Sox closer and his projected $3.8 million 1st year arb contract considered expensive, but Zach Duke 3 years $15 million, not much of a gamble?

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 01:39 PM) His point is that $5m buys you a bench player for a year. So no matter how you value an RP with or without WAR or LI, it's easy to see Duke being at least as valuable as a bench player. If the White Sox are spending $5 million on bench players, they will have a team record payroll. As for those comparing Miller and Duke, I'm not sure if it was up to me, Andrew Miller would be offered a 4 year $40 million contract. But even if it meant some team would, it doesn't make this Duke signing a good idea. If he sucks, I hope we don't get the "it was a great idea at the time posts". It's a reach.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 01:28 PM) Ultimately, I would have liked to have safeguarded this a bit by not guaranteeing the 3rd year, but the Sox believe in the change he made and believe it's sustainable. They are betting a lot on their scouts on this one in hoping that they'll get a great lefty reliever for 3 years. This is also not an unreasonable AAV. Teams are paying approximately $7 mill per WAR on the free agent market at this point. If Scherzer signs a $200 million deal, the signing team will expect him to produce 28.6 WAR over the duration of the contract. Given that the White Sox gave Duke $15 mill, they are expecting roughly 2 WAR. He basically has to be effective. He doesn't even have to be particularly good to make this a valuable deal for the Sox. So your position has changed regarding WAR and relievers?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 01:27 PM) Only if you come out and admit you're Marty's 2nd alias, Ncorgbl OR the autographed picture is actually from a member of the band Rush. On second thought, I'll settle for the perfect trifecta of all autographs on the market: Gordon Beckham, Victor Martinez and Ubaldo Jimenez posing together at some imaginary MLB All-Star game that never took place. What about Finnegan and Duffy?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 01:18 PM) You must HATE the White Sox because you're betting on our newest free agent acquisition to fail. Where have I heard that one before? So somehow hoping with your heart for good 'ol boy Gordon Beckham is better than just being another version of Marty34 and taking the counter-argument to everything that Hahn/KW decide to do because you have at least a 50% of being right? Why are you a White Sox fan, lol? You have some fascination with me. Would you like an autographed picture to hang in your room?

If Zach Duke like relievers get $5 million a year for 3 years, the White Sox, whether they have done it before or not, will be paying a reliever $10 million in the near future.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 01:12 PM) I'll bet you that Downs, er, Duke....is more valuable in WAR than Gordon Beckham. Double or nothing? Don Cooper.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 01:10 PM) Hopefully the difference here is that the White Sox believe that what he changed last year is both significant and sustainable. I get what you're saying, and I agree in premise -- but at least with this guy we have reason to believe he legitimately made a change that raised his true talent level. It's a story we have heard before. Guy has a big year, and has found it. Maybe it has happened before, but he DOUBLED his career k-rate at age 31. Has anyone A. Ever done that, and B. Sustained it for a few years? His 2014 was the outlier of all outliers. If it was a 1 year deal with some kind of option, fine. But 3? Even Wil Oh Man had a decent year once.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 01:06 PM) No more minor contracts with invites to spring training! They are spending that $189 million! If you ever learned how to read my posts it would be incredible. But this is along the lines of Keppinger, and Belisario and Downs and Paulino, except a little larger. It isn't a player who has had a lot of success. He has been around forever, and he will be paid based on 2014. I'll bet anyone Surkhamp is better than Duke in 2015.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 12:59 PM) You should be thrilled, they aren't going cheap any more... No, this is exactly what I don't want. Signing one year wonders who are over 30 and have been released a couple of times the last 2 years. Coming into this season, the White Sox didn't think he was worth 1/5 of what they paid Scott Downs or they could have signed him for exactly that. Now he's worth $15 million over 3 years?

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 12:45 PM) Ya I have a hard time getting angry about the 3rd year, if we have to eat 5.5 mill then oh well. That said, definitely a bit of an overpay but as others have said we were going to have to spend a little money on the pen and I'd rather go with Duke for 15 total than Miller for 40(if he gets around there of course). You eat Duke, you eat Keppinger, guess what that adds up to?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 12:34 PM) Doug Padilla ‏@ESPNChiSox 49s49 seconds ago White Sox's deal with Zach Duke is for three years and $15 million. Jeff Keppinger II.

Supposedly it is multi year and from what I was reading the other team involved was the Mets and they weren't willing to go 2 years. So I would imagine it is fairly cheap.

QUOTE (bmags @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 11:38 AM) Sox trade: Alexei Ramirez Chicago Receives: LA weather for next 30 winters Pull the trigger hahn. I'd throw in Abreu and Sale for that return.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 11:51 AM) If you go from throwing fastball, cutter, changeup to two-seamer, cutter, slider, curveball, you can see drastic changes like that. At age 31? I doubt it lasts. Do you have some examples? If it is a one year contract with some kind of option, that's fine. But these 3 year deal suggestions would be crazy to give him.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 11:47 AM) Let's hope we get 2012/2014 Zach Duke and not the Zach Duke who was a dumpster fire in 2013....Fairly meh on the signing till I see how he performs. You really don't want the 2012 version. He only gave you 13 innings. If it is for multiple years at a decent rate, this is the pitching signing equavalent to Jeff Keppinger. .

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 11:48 AM) I'm good with this. There's a little bit of a Will Ohman feel to this signing, but Duke was really, really good last year and it coincided with him throwing a cutter. His K-rate went from Buerhle to Kershaw. I doubt that continues.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 11:43 AM) Jesus DA, what did you want for LH in the bullpen? This guy has been horrible for a while both in the bullpen and starting. He has one crazy good year. I read on here don't spend money on the bullpen. REGRESSION is almost guaranteed. It's worth a little money to see if he actually has become someone you can count on, but not a lot.

If it is any more than a couple million guarantee, it is pissing money away.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 10:43 AM) Well, Montas hasn't pitched for the White Sox either, and every GM in baseball would take him over Bassit. He was essentially just a "lottery ticket" at the time of the Peavy trade, along with Rondon and Wendelken. To say that ANYONE expected him to be knocking on the door of the Top 100 MLB prospects a year ago would be laughable as well. And he throws 100. As I stated, there is a chance this guy might be great, a better chance he may be OK, but probably about as valuable as a lottery ticket with incorrect numbers.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 10:29 AM) They did give up on Neal Cotts. That worked out pretty well. I have no idea why that would be relevant, but this is a guy the A's gave up for one month of Adam Dunn. The odds are overwhelming that he never plays for the White Sox. To say he is anywhere near Bassitt who has pitched for the White Sox is laughable at this point.

QUOTE (flavum @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 10:19 AM) https://twitter.com/BNightengale/status/534741629630812160 Wow us, Dodgers. Nightengale is usually really accurate with White Sox stuff.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 10:00 AM) Also worth noting... MLB Draft ‏@MLBDraft 19m19 minutes ago .@BlueJays sign Russell Martin, forfeit No. 17 pick and slot value, which, in 2014, was $2,200,600. Updated order: http://atmlb.com/1xsOfmA I would guess they are hoping Martin has a great 2015 and then they will try to trade him. I am not sure if he received a NTC, but it seems to me getting one almost guarantees you will be traded at some point.