Dick Allen

MLB free agency sucks. Most of these guys won't sign for another month or longer. I love it in the other leagues with the salary caps. It a mad dash to sign someone and for the players to sign before teams become capped.

Yes, according to Forbes the White Sox lost money in 2013. But JR has had his minions tell us they only strive to break even every year. If that is truly the case, they have some catching up to do. The last time they lost money in a season was 2001, since then, according to Forbes, they have pulled a $189 million profit. Can we quit the crying poor for the White Sox? They have even trained the media into thinking they are broke. Remember when they signed Dunn? Paulie and AJ were out the door, until they weren't. JR was asked, "where did you get the money?" "You save a little here, save a little there" that was the response. There is plenty of money. Dumpster diving gets you Felipe Paulino. Get some real players.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 5, 2014 -> 08:33 AM) The same way Iguchi, Everett, Contreras, Pods, Vizcaino, Politte, Hermanson, Dye, AJ and El Duque worked for the White Sox...or the veteran additions the Red Sox made heading into the 2013 season. Remember Napoli, Victorino, Uehara, Gomes and David Ross??? None of those guys were "headliners" like Victor Martinez when they were acquired. Same thing with all the players the White Sox brought in (with the exception of F. Garcia)....Everett and El Duque were among the most expensive additions. But you are going bottom of the barrel. Brett Anderson. It's an upset if he pitches 60 innings, but it's OK to just blow money on him because Jeff Passan thinks someday he might actually pitch an entire season. And it probably is an awesome bet that would happen now, 5 years since he reached 100 innings, coming off back surgery. At least if you sign Victor, you can at least EXPECT production, instead of just hoping. As Hawk said, you want to win, you have to spend money. I honestly don't understand the fascination so many have about keeping money in JR's wallet.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 5, 2014 -> 08:22 AM) Just like $60 million will be a HUGE waste of money for Martinez. I'll take 5-10 Anderson's and win that bet every time. The problem is that Hahn has to make much better assessments in that salary range than Keppinger, Belisario, Downs and Paulino (to a lesser extent). Besides, we wasted a lot more than that on Beckham and DeAza with little payoff as well. Yeah, spread it around. $4.25 million for Keppinger, $3 million for Belisario, $2 million for Paulino, $4 million for Downs, how did that work out? All the proverbial low risk, high reward BS that so many like better than actually watching a team win games.You are going to need a lot more than 5 or 10 Andersons to make it through the season. You do not "win bets", let alone win bets everytime loading your roster with players that cannot play even half a season.

Brett Anderson hasn't pitched more than 83 innings in a season since 2010, and hasn't pitched more than 112 since 2009. Coming off back surgery, I don't know how anyone could project him to suddenly be a guy who can pitch the entire season. Giving him $5 million is a waste of money. Sign players that will actually help you win, not guys who will spend most of the year on the DL.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 06:32 PM) If he sincerely wants to return to the Tigers, they may sign him for the 4 years, $60 Million. However if he signs elsewhere, I will be surprised if it is less than 4 years, $70 Million. I would guess $20 Million for each of the first two years, and $15 Million, for each of the last two years. If that is what it is, then I think the Sox should pass. I think he will be cheaper than that.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 03:25 PM) No idea. I know that I was drug tested heavily as it was but when you are training so heavily trying to fulfill your dreams I cant see going out before an event or even doing drugs in season something I would do. The problem is people that age make dumb decisions. We all have at that age, and those who aren't there yet will. Combine that with how they have been given red carpet treatment since they have shown they were special athletically, a monster gets created. Some overcome it. Some fall predictably into the trap.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 02:54 PM) I mean, some athletes nowadays are just very entitled from their HS careers across the board. If I had a chance to step on the court or field at my dream school I wouldnt be partaking in drugs or alcohol, especially the night before an event. Would you say the same thing if you were 18 or 19 and it ws being shoved in your face?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 02:55 PM) Just to point out how solvable this position is every year, in addition to Laroche, here's the WRC+ career for various guys who are also available: Michael Morse's: 122 Kendrys Morales: 111 Billy Butler: 117 Michael Cuddyer 117 Pablo Sandoval: 122 Of the 5, 2 hit LH, one will cost you more than Victor, and the other hit like Leuri Garcia this year and has and agent named Boras.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 01:57 PM) What you're saying makes a ton of sense, and I think it's at the center of the logical portion of Dick Allen's argument, too. There is ALWAYS risk with EVERYONE, and to avoid all risk is to not really play. That said, you can accept risk without completely ignoring it. What I'm trying to say is that V Mart is MORE risky than the average (age, injury, outlier season, inflated price, etc.) free agent. He may the MOST risky, in fact. I just think that, in our position, we should not take the RISKIEST step available to us. Remember, I'm all for going for Russell Martin, who is 31 and a catcher and also coming of a fluke season, and many have pointed out the risks in that correctly. But there are a lot of reason to think that's still a safer move than Martinez and will pay dividends for longer. Martinez is just the shortest, riskiest guy. In the light of this World Series, what with two hot WC teams making it all the way to the end despite just barely sneaking into the tournament in the first place, one of the hot topics in saber circles now is the mental re-imagining of what the "win curve" really looks like. If 87 wins gets you a shot at a title, you can make an argument that you're contender even if you're a true talent .500 (82 win) team. All it takes is a couple lucky breaks and a handful of extra innings victories. Hell, you can make an argument that you're a fringe contender if you're a BELOW .500 team. What this means is that there is value in sustaining a decent level of performance, without the peaks and valleys, where there was none before. Now, a 94 win juggernaut only has a marginally better shot at the championship, but costs drastically more in terms of time and money to create. Feast or famine is going out of style. For this reason, if we're going to take risks, it would behoove us to take those that have at least a reasonable shot at offering sustained return. I don't think you can look ahead more than 4 years with any shred of accuracy, but you can make a reasonable guess at how things will likely work out for the next few years at least. To me, V Mart is a bold, one year move that might work for two that almost certainly is a problem after three and four. It's a feast or famine move in an era where the middle road is looking like the most prudent path. Riskiest would be giving one of those pitchers over $100 million or giving Scherzer a 7 year contract. If you are thinking, 3 years $48 is a doable thing, it would have to go a lot higher than that to be as risky as those signings.

QUOTE (PorkChopExpress @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 01:23 PM) Is it just me, or does Oakland claim a lot of players from the White Sox? It almost rivals KW's love of near 40 year old former Cleveland Indians. And I say this wanting the Sox to sign Victor Martinez.

27 year olds with career ERAs over 10.00 usually get waived. He wasn't too impressive during his short stint this past season.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 12:58 PM) I cannot and will not believe that there will be an offseason any time in the near future where there are 0 legitimate DH options for a team. How about with with a career 125 wRC+ who bats lefthanded (actually both) can be plugged into the middle of the line up, and rarely swings and misses.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 12:34 PM) A 3 year conract is building forward for 3 years. In 3 years time half the roster won't be the same most likely.If we're lucky Bassitt, Rodon , Danish and Montas will all be established pitchers wreakng havoc in either the pen or rotation. Anything the Sox do now is a bridge or road to becoming that team with the killer rotation. That is what I believe too. It would be nice to think you know 6 or 7 guys in the White Sox regular line up 3 or 4 years from now and/or their rotation and bullpen, but I am not sure if it is BA or BP that projects the line ups 3 or 4 years down the road. They usually wind up with only a couple of guys correct. To say before the Sox fill this huge hole, they need to fill this hole and that hole, is IMO being timid. You need to fill the holes when you can. And if those holes cannot be filled now, at least the one you did fill should be filled for a couple of years at the very least until someone develops or another opportunity arises. Or you still are going to be in the same spot year after year. The Sox cannot continue to waste Sale and Q and to some extent, Abreu. If you are waiting for this system to develop all these players before you take any decent sized risks, history has shown, we will all be waiting a long time.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 10:44 AM) I haven't seen anything about ticket prices going up. How much are we talking? What seats are we talking about? The only person I have seen say anything so far was a season ticket holder who said his entire package went up $1 for the entire season. I have it at home. My invoice is for the exact same as last year, but the chart at the back of the package shows about a $3 per game increase for season ticket accounts which is still a discount from game to game. I am guessing those are for new accounts.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 10:36 AM) White Sox are raising ticket prices, therefore they should be targeting the same free agents as the Royals. Read again. They are raising ticket prices, which means raising payroll, which means trying to contend, which is exactly what the Royals are trying to do which makes Martinez a "perfect fit" for them. The White Sox could use a little more offense, a little more contact, and left handed presence. Just what he provides.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 10:13 AM) I would just respond with what shysocks said, again: Additionally, I think our team is one that needs to invest in some good defense. The Royals are NOT, and thus can actually really benefit from a bat that doesn't take any of their good defenders off the field. The problem with investing in defense is there really are only 2 places realistically they will invest. 3b and a rOF spot. Avasail Garcia, whether we like it or not, is not going to DH at this point. They are going to use a prospect at 2b. Alexei at SS. Abreu isn't going to be a full time DH, and Flowers is a cheap C. Eaton is going to play CF or maybe a corner if they get a CF.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 10:15 AM) I think the difference is that the Royals window on contention will likely close as VMart hits the back end of his contract while the Sox should just be entering their window. If the Sox were one piece away for next season he would make sense, since they are multiple pieces away it makes less sense to me. You really want a piece that is going to contribute at a high level from 2016-2019 if you are the Sox, and I don't think VMart is that guy. Judging by the White Sox raising ticket prices in some cases very significantly, I think they are expecting to spend some money this offseason, and expecting to contend in 2015. So really, they are in the same boat as KC.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 10:03 AM) Because the Royals are substantially better than the White Sox and are very obviously ready to contend next year. LMAO. How do you get into contention if you are afraid of paying good players? If Victor Martinez is a good fit for the Royals, he is a good fit for the White Sox. Newsflash....Hahn is trying to win, not see if 1 in 100 waiver claims works out.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 09:48 AM) He did have a point where he notes that people are counting on Rodon to do the same thing for us in order for the Sox to be competitive next year. Rodon was the 3rd pick. Finnegan the 17th. Rodon is by far the more decorated prospect. Finnegan has 34 innings as a pro. Banking on him being a big part of a playoff rotation is a bit crazy.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 09:25 AM) The Giants have averaged about the same number of regular season wins (87-90) in 2010/12/14 and have three World Series championships to show for it. It's simply a matter of getting there. Seattle was badly fading down the stretch. It wasn't THAT close where you can say they BARELY made it. Don't compare the Royals with the Giants. That is beyond silly. The Royals had not "been there" in 29 years. There is no reason to think with their limited resources ( I actually read where trading Alex Gordon is a possibility) that they are the next Tampa Bay Rays. You seem to have Finnegan in the HOF already, but chances are you are more than a little overboard.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 09:11 AM) WHY? They have Ventura/Duffy as co #1's going into the season, then Guthrie and Vargas for the back end. It would be like assuming the White Sox would need a pitcher when they only have one rotation hole, when in reality there are probably two more(depending on your feelings regarding Danks and Noesi) and that's IF Rodon makes it in 2015. Ventura Duffy Finnegan (the Royals see him exactly as the White Sox view Rodon) Vargas Guthrie Kyle Zimmer (depending on health, was pulled from AFL) Sean Manaea Liam Hendricks Lamb Binford If they're going to make ANY move in their rotation, it's for a one year veteran "placeholder" to have as additional insurance for Finnegan, but I'm not even convinced 100% they will go that route. They might even look at Aaron Crow as a possibility, although it's a longshot.... The Royals have DH and RF (do they add another big name or platoon Dyson with someone?), and the only other starting position that's open for debate about changing is 2B with Omar Infante, but they absolutely don't HAVE to get rid of him, either. So you're telling me if the White Sox had THREE high draft picks all close to ready for the majors....and there was only ONE available spot in the rotation, and then you had three or four other realistic possibilities in Hendricks, Lamb, Binford and Aaron Crow, that you'd STILL pull the trigger on expensive/overpaid veteran starting pitchers in the Peavy/Volquez/Hammel/Vogelsong, etc., tier???? Even with the injury to Zimmer, I think a big-time pitching move is highly unlikely. Their bullpen is about to eat a lot of their payroll, and as bad as Shields was in the postseason, he was really good in the regular season. It is highly doubtful they can replace that, (227 IP 3.21 ERA) and this is a team that barely made the playoffs and 99% of the time would have lost the wild card game. They could be decent, but I doubt we are looking at a run Royals contention.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 08:57 AM) That seems fairly obvious - the Sox aren't primed to be contenders next year when VMart would be most likely to earn his money, and he'd be declining and potentially done when the team was ready to compete. The Royals are at a different point on the win curve and an upgrade in 2015 could make the contract worth it despite the decline years. Let's save the rehashing of whether or not old guys decline and which ones do or don't for another time. Whether or not you agree with the above, that's the reasoning. Why can't the White Sox be contenders next year? The anti Victors are saying his production will not match the contract. That isn't a perfect fit anywhere. If you think Victor can hit, he would be good for the White Sox. If you think he isn't good for the White Sox, he isn't good for a team with less revenue. I don't understand the reasoning of Victor being an upgrade over Butler, but posters actually preferring Butler over Victor for the White Sox.

Why is Victor Martinez perfect for the Royals, but for the White Sox he would be nothing but a bad contract?

QUOTE (Lillian @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 08:04 AM) For those speculating about what it will take to sign V. Martinez, it might be interesting to note what some of the other great hitters are going to be getting paid in their late 30's, and beyond: Age 36 -39 Albert Pujols 25M, 26M, 27M, 28M, Plus 29M at 40, 30M at 41 Robinson Cano 24M each year, plus 24M at 40 Miguel Cabrera 30M, 30M, 30M, 32M, plus 32M at 40 with vesting options for 32M for two more years if top 10 MVP Given that Victor is the only really great left handed hitter in this year's free agent market, I would guess that it will take at least $20 million, per year for the first 3 years, with something close to that for the 4TH. I know that he is pretty much strictly a DH, but he is a switch hitter, and last year helps him make the case that he is aging well. Please don't assume that any of this suggests that I'm advocating signing him to that kind of contract. I'm simply speculating about what it might take. It is possible it will cost that much, but he is pretty much strickly a DH and is a lot older when signing the contract than those you mentioned. On the other hand, they usually do get more than you would think, so who knows? We do know one thing, if the White Sox sign him at whatever price, they can afford him.