Dick Allen

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Oct 2, 2014 -> 09:32 AM) Oh yea, when he first accused Wittenmeyer of making up something out of whole cloth, he also mentioned that he was using anonymous quotes and that he should attribute them The truth is most likely somewhere in the middle. Bryant can't "be on board" with the Cubs plan of not calling him up, so the CUBS can save some money and service time. But his agent is Scott Boras. He will not hold it against them. If he is as great as projected, the Cubs offer him the most money when he becomes a free agent, he will re-sign. But 6 years is a long time. Maybe he is gone by then. Maybe he sucks. Maybe Theo is gone. But logically, there is no way he is happy about not getting called up, being screwed over, just because the team can. It makes sense for the Cubs, for sure. I don't blame them. But Bryant is getting a raw deal.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 2, 2014 -> 09:07 AM) Except the BMOC specifically mentioned a RHSP, first on his list. Which is exactly what JR mentioned about a month ago. A back end right handed starter. I think it is safe to assume one will be added.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Oct 2, 2014 -> 09:05 AM) Why would anyone be disappointed with that? Because White Sox fans are the most self loathing (team-wise,not personal) fans in Chicago. I am guilty of it, but say something positive about anyone other than Abreu or Sale, and someone is usually posting how wrong you are. Take Q, the guy ranks the last couple of years basically as an ace, but while many here acknowledge that and give him his props, others still say he is a #3 starter. A couple of posts above said the Sox have no power. They were 4th in the AL in homers, then went on to say they are even worse power-wise without Dunn and could upgrade LF, 3B and DH and still have no power? Really?Also, he mentioned defense. Upgrade in 2 spots, probably have a GG SS, a plus CF, but the defense cannot be any good. He actually thinks the Sox can get 2 top end bullpen guys, a #2 starter, an upgrade in LF, 3B and DH and still won't be any good.

I have the feeling a few posters would actually be very dissappointed if KW is correct and the Sox actually have a good team next season.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 02:29 PM) Nobody has said they love Steverson, but there was a noticeable change in approach amongst the hitters in the lineup this year. Swing at hittable pitches, do not swing at unhittable pitches. It's much easier said than done, but there were a few guys who looked better at the plate compared to last year. Ultimately results matter. Take Abreu off this team and Eaton, Steverson is universally and unfairly just the next idiot to hold that job. I really doubt there is anyone out there that can change many careers. You may help one guy like Walker helped Paulie when he took over midway through 2003, but Paulie was pretty good before he bottomed out in 2003. The vast majority of guys don't make big strides because of the hitting coach or wouldn't there be some sort of hitting coach saber stat? Unless they talk about it, we never really have any idea who really pays attention to these guys. IMO, they get hired for their philosophy and fired if that philosophy isn't what they preach or they don't work hard or, and I think this is what happens most often, fired just because they make cheap sacrificial lambs. Teams constantly swapping out hitting coaches don't usually see the team OBP rise or OPS rise unless they swap out a few players. One exception was when Cleveland fired Eddie Murray, but that team hated him. A friend of mine emailed me an article last year written by a club coach for youth Soccer. I wish I still had it, but basically he said there are so many parents who spend 10s of thousands of dollars to get their kid a great coach with some club, and are ultimately dissappointed because the kid winds up average, and isn't scholarship worthy. He said basically no matter how much money you spend, if your kid has average ability no matter who is showing him what, chances are he or she will wind up average. If there is somebody that makes average or even pretty good hitters great consistently, they would probably be paid more than most players.

I was watching Butler, and I think I would stay away. He hit a few line drives last weekend, but the ball doesn't have much zip coming off his bat. Maybe I am being a little too simple, but while I think he can come back and hit for a decent average, I think his power is what it is, and that is pretty unacceptable for a guy you really don't want playing the field at all, and a guy who rolls into as many DPs as he does.

For the record, Walker didn't get fired. Maybe he saw the writing on the wall. But now that he is gone, pick all Braves hitters for your fantasy teams next season. Bargains galore.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 09:24 AM) So the Braves younger players having significant declines isnt pudding proof, but other players not getting better is? They declined, but also put up numbers you are comparing the declines with under him, and we know from this board he suddenly didn't get stupid, he's been stupid for years. Guys have bad years. Look at Heyward's season before Walker got there. I think his first season they led the league in runs scored. If Walker were as bad as so many here claim, we would see a ton of improvement from guys once they got away from his poison. The fact is, and I know that usually isn't what some want to look at, it hasn't happended.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 08:55 AM) The one thing I can say is that I still can't fathom why Adam Dunn was not on the A's 2 days after the Lester trade. Ok it's not a perfect match but by all accounts you're downgrading your lineup by taking Cespedes out of the middle of it, if you're paying the kind of price you paid for Samardzija then why on Earth would you go cheap about adding in a replacement bat? It doesn't seem like it would have made much of a difference, because I don't think getting Dunn an extra month makes up 7 or 8 games, but maybe it does make the WC game a home game, and that could have made a huge difference.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 08:41 AM) A worthwhile question for the Braves is what do you do when it seems like the entire team takes a step back at once. Fine, BJ Upton flopped. I'll even grant you that is on the GM and player evaluation, assuming that the hitting coach had no say in that, and the GM was appropriately fired as a consequence. Jason Heyward's OPS went down 40 points last year and 30 points this year at a time when he should be approaching his prime and getting better, and injuries don't seem to be an excuse this year since he was solid in the OF. Chris Johnson fell apart, put up his worst season of his career. Maybe he's not the player he was last year but he's been an above average bat almost every year of his career. Freddie Freeman signed a big contract and his OPS dropped 50 points. Andrelton Simmons isn't there for his bat, but the drop off from his .692 OPS last year to a .617 OPS this year almost makes it difficult to put him out there for that glove. The only 2 guys in their lineup who got slightly better were Evan Gattis and Justin Upton, each by about 20 points of OPS. Basically they, within error, repeated their previous seasons. So what the heck happened? Was the entire team hurt? Was the entire team misused? Guys who are at ages when they should be getting better seemed to uniformly go the opposite way. Was there something in the water? What else do you say about that? Didn't many of these same players also have the successes you mentioned while Walker was the hitting coach? How would you explain that?

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 09:16 AM) absolving them of all blame is equally as ridiculous, especially if you dont know their exact relationship I think the proof is in the pudding. Not many White Sox hitters went on to higher success under other hitting coaches. Nick Swisher did, but as been stated here many times, one reason he was dumped by the White Sox was his refusal to work with the coaching staff.

Dunn is 34 or 35 years old, has all the money he will ever need, and can do whatever he wants the rest of his life. Not a bad consolation prize for not getting any postseason ABs.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 08:39 AM) I don't know how comparable the 2011 and 2014 rosters are, even if you count Abreu. But the 2013 roster didn't have Eaton or Abreu. Adding those 2 would have made a difference. Obviously 2011 Paulie was a lot better than he was this year, and that is not on Steverson, but overall, Viciedo hasn't seemed to be much better. Beckham didn't get better, Ramirez really about the same, after a couple of seasons of declining power. De Aza, not an improvement. Flowers, perhaps an improvement but luck does seem to be a bit better this year. I don't think if you asked Feeky if he thought Flowers could hit .240 next year he would say yes. Gillaspie was better this year, although less power and pretty awful the second half. The offense changes when the hitters change. Blaming a hitter's failure on the hitting coach is ridiculous, especially if you don't know their exact relationship.

That was a pretty awesome game. If Beane doesn't make those trades, I wonder if they just don't even make the one game playoff. He still has Jeff S. for another year, and I would guess he will get traded. It was a collapse pretty much of epic proportion for Oakland and last night's game was their season in a nutshell. Sometimes you go for it and get burned. I was reading something several years ago which basically stated deadline time deals usually don't help you much, and in hindsight many are regrettable. It did seem like they were lined up for some pretty good things a couple of months ago. It seemed like a sequel to Money Ball was inevitible. I still don't understand Ventura pitching last night. I think KC is really behind the 8 ball this next series. I am not a Beane fan, but I can't argue with the Lester trade. I always questioned the trade with the Cubs because I am not a Jeff S. fan and he was sure to drop off as well as the other guy. Russell was a high price to pay.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 08:20 AM) So what you're saying is, Jose Abreu needs to be the hitting coach. No, what I am saying is adding Jose Abreu to your line up suddenly makes your hitting coach a heck of a lot smarter. The Sox are definitely on the upswing, and should have better hitters fill their line up in coming years, so Steverson won't be an idiot until they start to decline. I think many place way too much responsibility on a player's failure to hit on the hitting coach. Hitting is a tough thing. BJ Upton doesn't suck because Greg Walker is the hitting coach. Leo Mazzone was the pitching coach of pitching coaches. Then he takes Baltimore's money and their crappy pitchers, winds up getting fired and couldn't find another job. Same with Rudy Jaramillo. Hitting guru in Texas. Someone here was once so impressed, he thought the Sox, if they couldn't bring him in, needed to hire his "assistant". Then he gets the Cubs crappy hitters, and he is no longer a major league hitting coach.

While it is always the hitting coach's fault the team can't hit, just look at this: Greg Walker, idiot 2011 White Sox .252 avg. .319 OBP Jeff Manto, idiot 2013 White Sox .245 avg. 302 OBP Todd Steverson, genius 2014 White Sox .253 avg. .310 OBP 2014 White Sox without Jose Abreu .245 avg. 300 OBP When BJ Upton continues to suck, who will be the next to blame since Walker will be watching TV? If Hahn wants Steverson to really look good, the roster will have better hitters.

QUOTE (sin city sox fan @ Sep 30, 2014 -> 01:12 PM) Robin gotta go....fire his ass today. They can let Sale manage, but he doesn't have any experience so he won't know like typical message board posters hiw to craft a line up, unless he has been secretly posting on here or other boards. Then you are looking at at least 145 wins a season.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 30, 2014 -> 05:41 PM) After what he did this year, that would be like us laughing at an offer of Chris Beck for Adam Dunn after his 2011 or 2012 seasons. I don't think that would be laughable if the team giving that guy up took the salary on. Sure, if you discount Dunn was several years older, owed many millions more (about $20 million in guaranteed money),and blow off Dunn wasn't really a defensive player and Bruce is a plus RF., and had a far worse season. Other than that, you are right, it is pretty much the same.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Sep 30, 2014 -> 01:37 PM) The lack of interest in the Cubs really hurts the Sox. People in Chicago just don't care about baseball right now. Not only that but since they are partners on Comcast Sports Net when the teams are good, the other programming draws a lot bigger ratings, increasing ad revenue. I read an article about it last year. So in the summer months when both teams suck, not a lot of people tune into see Kap or Pat Boyle.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 30, 2014 -> 12:26 PM) Rienzo I think they keep around and make him a reliever. Thompson they can probably leave exposed, he's got some Rule V claim risk but not a lot and he's not a huge loss. So he may get DFA's. Raul Fernandez I get the impression they like, so I'd be he stays on. Don Cooper clearly doesn't think much of Rienzo on the mound. I do doubt they just let him go, but it wouldn't be too surprising. I think it's more likely he is a trade throw in.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Sep 30, 2014 -> 12:25 PM) It's a big difference if your home park is Coors Field. Gonzalez has some of the most ridiculous splits in all of baseball. Home:.329/.387 /601/.988 Away:.258 /314/.437/.750 There is a difference of .238 between his home/away OPS. If you could find me a player who A.) doesn't play in Coors Field and B.) has a difference of > .238 in home/away OPS (minimum of a 1000 PAs), I will drive to North Dakota and buy you drinks until you keel over. Ian Kinsler had about a .160 point difference in home/away splits for his career. When he went to the Tigers, he hit pretty close to his lifetime away splits. Far closer than his lifetime home splits.It does happens both ways,where the split doesn't come into play. But I am with you, on a split that large, you have to be leery.

One problem the White Sox may have acquiring LH hitters is Boston is in the same boat, and they usually spend a little more cash and have a few more desireable prospects at the higher levels. In other words, there probably won't be a bargain to be had unless they land a breakout guy.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 30, 2014 -> 11:27 AM) I am saying that there is very little risk involved in bringing back a player who is Super 2 eligible for approximately $1-1.5 million after he pitched better than his peripheral numbers projected he would pitch this year. You must really be bored if you are trying to bait this hard. I am not trying to bait this, but if Greg pointed out his ERA and was upset the Sox let him go, you can bet these numbers would be used to slam him and you did say he was quite effective this year.

So you are saying middle relievers with a FIP at 3.95 and an xFIP at 4.44 are very effective out of the bullpen, and the type of guys the Sox should pay through arb years?

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 30, 2014 -> 10:50 AM) This is not relevant to the discussion on hand, has been beaten to death, and bringing it up is unnecssary. There was no need for this. No. It is. He clearly is not effective using the same numbers you use to tell us others suck. And he is hitting arbitration.