Dick Allen

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 02:02 PM) I've said before, though it sounds odd, I think Phegley has better potential as a hitter than Flowers does. Keep in mind that you can't look at Phegley's numbers in the minors at face value. Look at his jumps, how little development time he actually had at any given level. He didn't have a full, healthy season until 2012, at which point he was in AAA with very little development time at other levels in terms of games played. Then in 2013 (and even late 2012 really), once he had a year to adjust to level, he exploded. Flowers value offensively appears likely to only be his power. The walks he put up in the minors have vanished. He could lose 25 pounds and not come close to hitting his weight. But, he has shown he is a decent back up which has value. No one really knows how well Phegley can hit, not even considering how he would be able to hit if he were a guy not playing regularly. Sporatic ABs don't seem to matter to Flowers. If I were the GM, if I am acquiring a legit starting catcher, Flowers is the guy I keep. If it is another part time guy, Phegley is the guy I would keep around if someone had to go.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 01:49 PM) Why are you a "meathead" if you want the Bears to win and not lose on a decision to put a QB in who hasn't played in 8 weeks, over a guy that has played the best stretch OF ANY QUARTERBACK IN THE HISTORY OF THE GOD DAMN FRANCHISE? Can I repeat that point any stronger? The best f'n stretch of games as QB in ALMOST 100 YEARS. I am only using his term in which I apparently am bunched in, as I don't see why the Cutler fan club refuses to admit to several flaws in his game. If it isn't his receivers, its his line, or its the opposing defense. It's always something besides Jay. Some people have a hard time admitting he sometimes just has a lousy game. OTOH, if McCown really is a guy who can be this good for more than just a stretch, you would think that by now he would have been in a few pro bowls and super bowls and probably cemented his path to Canton. There is no question he has been outstanding. IMO, if you could reasonably determine he would be able to keep it up, there is absolutely no reason to pay Cutler what he would command. The fact that the Bears are going back to Cutler seems to indicate what they currently think.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 01:32 PM) I get yours and everyone elses point, I guess I'm just think it's unrealistic to expect Jay to go for 350+ against this Browns team that features perhaps the #1 CB in the league, Joe Haden, and the other corner is leading the league in pass deflections. I think everyone just wants the win. The only thing that will get "meatheads" really going is if the Bears lose and Jay is bad. I think, on this board at least, and the vast majority of places, 99% of people know Cutler is better than McCown. The only questions are, is McCown as good as he's played moving forward, and if he is, which the Bears are more capable of determining than any of us, is it enough to walk away from Cutler. I think they don't think so. I don't see why the would go back to Cutler now if they thought McCown was the solution, especially with the roll he has been on.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 12:13 PM) First taste of big league action Castro - .205/.286/.287 Phegley - .206/.223/.299 Why should we not assume that we already have Jason Castro on the roster, except that his name is Josh Phegley? There is no need to spend that much on a catcher at this point. I think you are very, very wrong on this one. You really can't be serious can you? Now you can blow off minor league track records, age, and anything else and call players similar by how they start out the first couple hundred major league ABs? Besides, the OBP is nowhere near similar.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 01:14 PM) Please. They couldn't even beat that s***ty Philly team who's leading scorer was GOAT candidate Lou Williams. They should've at least won that series, even without Rose (and they had a 1-0 cushion). The Bulls were never built for the playoffs. Noah got hurt too. This team is always injured.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Dec 11, 2013 -> 07:22 PM) Whats gonna (for lack of a better word) "suck" is after weeks of playing defenses ranked in the 20's and 30's against the pass Cutler is returning against the 9th ranked Browns who have only allowed 1 300 yard game all season (this past week, when Brady threw for 179 in the 4th Q). So chance are he doesn't put up McCown like numbers so you just know the meatheads will go off about the switch even more. If Jay is worth $15 million a year, he should be able to do OK vs the 9th ranked defense in the same offense a journeyman can light up lesser defenses, or there is no point paying him that much. Why is it there is always an excuse for Cutler? Everyone knows he has talent, and a lot more talent than McCown. The question is whether it is worth the difference in salary when the team is going to have a lot of issues to address.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 12:41 PM) Zoom to the Bulls' FO rescue once again. And the FO will always be able to use that excuse and enough people out there will fall for it. Point is defense, rebounding and Rose was NEVER going to be enough. Just like defense, rebounding and LeBron wasn't enough in Cleveland. I think if everyone is healthy, they have enough to win. The problem is everyone is never healthy, and it has been an issue for years. And it's not because Thibs plays guys too much. JR owns 2 teams. His baseball team is annually one of the healthiest. His basketball team seems to always have at least a couple of key players out. It's time to change the core, and perhaps the training and medical staff. It's not like these guys who miss 20-80 games every year are going to start playing 80. That's where GarPax is just wrong.

QUOTE (Jillian Michaels' Abs @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 12:00 PM) Maybe it's a "work from home" position. Harold watching video of all of Adam Dunn's Ks All he has to do is watch MLB Network. 90% of the time they are talking about a pitcher and they show footage of that pitcher, it includes video of Adam Dunn striking out. It is uncanny.

QUOTE (Jillian Michaels' Abs @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 11:42 AM) Harold Baines is the assistant hitting coach, a position not listed on the Sox web site. Why would Thome be listed? I heard an interview with Rick Hahn a couple of months ago and they were asking about Thome. Rick really was having a hard time answering exactly what he did, a lot of hemming and hawing, but did concede that Thome's title was special assistant to the GM. Maybe Jimbo is taking Harold's spot. They could probably have him just work home games.

QUOTE (balfanman @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 11:34 AM) Did I miss something? Is Harold no longer with the team? I was looking through the White Sox MLB site and noticed that Harold Baines is no longer listed as a coach of anykind. I am on Soxtalk most days and I don't remember any mention of Harold being gone. Anyone able to shed any light on this? http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/team/coaches.jsp?c_id=cws Evidently. It is interesting though. There has been no mention. Maybe he is retiring.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 10:53 AM) Even in the modern age, there is nothing that equates to pressing the flesh. Rick said even the meetings that used to be done face to face in a hotel room during the Winter Meetings are mostly done over the phone. There was that picture of the 3 GMs in a room. I don't know if they were in the same room when the deal got done or they met to go to their press conference or what. They probably aren't going to get rid of them any time soon, but for deals-sake, it appears they don't make much of a difference anymore. Obviously there are other aspects to the meetings that most fans don't care much about.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 10:58 AM) I disagree that Flowers is the starting catcher, I'm fairly sure they are more confident in Phegley. I would think of the 2, they should be more confident in Flowers as a back up. They know he can be somewhat effective if playing infrequently. I don't know how they can have any feel for Phegley until he actually shows he can hit. He can throw, but the guy is a catcher and one of his problems is actually catching the ball.

It wasn't that long ago that Montero was a huge prize. What a bust, and he can't catch.

QUOTE (flavum @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 10:21 AM) Probably not. It's a mad dash to the airport after the Rule 5. Sure they could do something, but it's more likely to happen after today. Yes. Rick Hahn was quoted in a story basically saying the Winter Meetings have become obsolete. With everyone with cell phones, and texting and email, they can get just as much accomplished, if not more in some instances, in their own offices. He came to the meetings on Monday and said he got more done at home Sunday than at the meetings on Monday. There is probably some groundwork done, and some stuff should happen shortly. I think a lot of teams want to have certain things done by the holidays.

There's no need getting upset about who the Sox picked up or didn't pick up in this draft. Go back 5 years. No team has had much luck getting anyone using this venue.

This is like playing the daily lottery. You throw in a dollar, so what, you probably are going to lose. But if your number comes up, it's more than worth it. The odds are stacked against any of these guys actually helping the White Sox. Just go back over the rule 5 in recent years and it filled with names you will only hear when your searching for a better rate on your homeowners insurance. But, there is always a chance it works out.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 08:26 AM) Baseball America had him listed as a "Player who can help now" so there's a chance he wouldn't be. Hopefully they are correct. Odds are, 2 years from now none of us will remember his name.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 12, 2013 -> 08:10 AM) This has become something Hahn has done far differently than Williams. During Williams' tenure, I can really only remember the Sox taking Jason Grilli with a Rule 5 pick. Hahn attempted to settle the utilitiy infielder role with a Rule 5 pick last year with Angel Sanchez last year, and now they are at least attempting to add to the catcher's competition this year with Nieto. At such minimal cost, there's no point in at least attempting to bring someone in every year unless your 25 man roster is virtually set already. I like this quite a bit. In all fairness, it is really hard trying to hide a position player on your roster when you are in win mode. Hahn selected the guy last year and he wasn't the typical rule 5 guy as he was a veteran with some experience. There is nothing to lose here. Hopefully he shows enough to stick, or enough to keep and then they could work something out with the Nationals.

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Dec 11, 2013 -> 03:13 PM) You're just wrong about him being a lame duck in every sense. You won't know if he's fired until this time next year. If they make a bowl next year and look decent, there's a decent chance he gets an extension. That's far from a miracle season. Zook wasn't there 2 years and looking to be fired by his 3rd year. You're missing the boat - you fire a coach after 2 years without really, really good justification, good luck getting anyone, anywhere to take the job. Coaches walk into bad situations all the time, but they usually get more than 2 years to fix it. Which is what Beckman is getting. Next year decides it. This is difference between football and basketball in Champaign. There actually are people who think there is no justification to fire Beckman. No matter what, year 1, year 2, if a basketball coach came in and his only conference win was a close one vs. NU, he would be gone in a heartbeat. And you are only kidding yourself if you don't think his job status has any effect on his recruiting.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Dec 11, 2013 -> 03:05 PM) I agree that the odds are very great that he won't put up the .344 average, or .442 OBP, which he produced hitting behind Eaton at Reno, in 2012. But, who says he as to perform at that astounding level to be good enough to bat second on the White Sox? I'd take a .300 average, a .375 OBP, and the ability to execute the hit and run, as well as take and foul off pitches. Wouldn't you? Hey, maybe you should be debating this point with Brett Butler. He is the one who raved about his ability as a number two hitter. Of course I would take that, but .......... It's amazing the DBacks waived him if they thought so highly of him, and then the next year, the Astros, who can use all the good players they can get waived him as well. He had a great year at Reno, but it's really stacked against him just being a regular on a major league team.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Dec 11, 2013 -> 02:39 PM) My "love" is based upon his specialized skill as a #2 hole hitter, which is a unique offensive role. A left handed hitter, per se, has never been an issue with me. It is the need for a left handed, middle of the order bat, to break up the succession of right handed hitters, about which I have written so often. In fact, for a number 2 hitter, batting from the right side can be an advantage because he has a better look at the runner on first. He also has a bigger hole to hit in, providing he can take the ball the other way, at which I suspect Elmore is quite adept. I'm very intrigued by the way he worked so well with Eaton, in front of him. Don't you agree that the ability to foul off pitches, work the count and take walks are skills that translate well to the Big Leagues? Beckham has more potential, but he has never demonstrated that he can hit in the 2 hole. They are different players. If Eaton and Elmore could work some magic at the top of the order, and set the table for Abreu, ?, Garcia, Viciedo and whoever else the Sox stick in the heart of the order, the offense could be very interesting. If the Sox were playing next year in AAA, I'd say give it a whirl. 2 organizations have given up on him even though he only costs them the minimum. I'd say the odds of him being the same player in the major leagues that he was at Reno are beyond slim.

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Dec 11, 2013 -> 10:49 AM) A bit of both, obviously a ton of youth. I would have been fine with Banks going, as the fundamentals/scheming didn't seem to improve. At this moment in time, he's not a lame duck head coach. If that's your opinion, fine, but as of this moment, MT isn't sitting there figuring out who to hire next year. If a bball coach inherited the garbage on this year's roster, and showed improvement with it, then yeah, I could see him getting more time. It takes 3 years, especially with this roster and situation, to see where you are at. Has to make a bowl next year and show a lot of improvement now that a decent amount of the roster is back and older, and will have 2 good qbs to help. If you fire him now, NO ONE is going to take the job knowing they have 2 years to fix everything, and even if they show improvement in year 2, they are still gone. No coach walks into a situation knowing that now. Good luck selling that. So that's how it gets better, even if there is more failure. Everything will be determined next year. Good luck Beckman selling recruits he will be the coach when their redshirt season is up. He is a lame duck in every sense. So his recruiting class will be weak. That is what happened to Zook's recruiting classes. Once your job status is up for debate, even if your institution has said nothing, you become a lame duck. The only way for him to escape it is for a miracle season and an extension. If he has 2 good QBs coming in, there would be plenty of guys willing to take that job. You can only go up. Coaches walk into bad situations all the time. They have egos. It is rather obvious Beckman is in over his head. Waiting just prolongs the losing, something that wouldn't happen there in basketball.

I wouldn't mind having Morrision if you had a place for him at 1B/DH. He is a nice buy low candidate who could be a star. At worst, you lose a guy who will probably be selling insurance in a couple of years to get him.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Dec 11, 2013 -> 02:22 PM) The Sox don't exactly have world beaters at either second or third. It shouldn't be that hard to find a place for Elmore. Keppinger adds very little, and Beckham could play third, if the Sox want to keep him. Even if this is not Hahn's plan, I can see it at least being tried as an experiment. Imagine Eaton and Elmore going to Ventura, in Spring Training, and telling him how they worked together as an effective tandem at the top of the order. Wouldn't Robbin want to see what they could do? Elmore is 9 months younger than Beckham and in over 200 plate appearances in the major leagues has put up a .588 OPS. He also was waived by the worst team in baseball. Maybe he can stick as a versatile reserve, but why base anything on what he did in AAA? Look at Beckham's minor league numbers. I don't get your love. He doesn't even hit left handed.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Dec 11, 2013 -> 01:21 PM) So yeah, this just makes it somewhat cheaper for New York, Boston, and LA to sign them. And whatever they save from the posting fee, they probably will have to spend on the player given there will actually be competition. I am surprised the Japanese teams agreed to this.