Dick Allen

I still don't understand why the Bears burned a TO and didn't challenge the Jeffery near TD. The worst thing that happens is they are out of challenges. I think as long as you need a TO anyway, take a chance. If it goes your way, you get 6 and save the TO. One play no one is talking about was the lateral after the Jeffery fumble at the end of the first half. It was a forward lateral and wasn't even close. It was received 3 yards in front of where it was tossed. That gets called, it changes things up at the end of the first half.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 30, 2013 -> 10:26 AM) Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan 1h Over the last 24,300 MLB starts, pitchers have gone 130+ pitches 23 times. Over his last 123, Masahiro Tanaka has 15: http://yhoo.it/1ePRRIB In 1989 as a 42 year old, Nolan Ryan went over 130 16 times. He was over 125 another 3. Don't they pitch once a week in Japan, like college ball?

On the play GB scored the TD on the fumble, even they had no idea the play was still live, although there may be some merit in the Bears perhaps scoring there if Lovie was still coaching. Anderson was the guy who could have picked it up and ran. He wasn't coached by Lovie and his group. I have bashed Cutler plenty, but I thought he played a really good game yesterday. There were a couple of throws a bit off, but conditions weren't ideal. He also had a couple of drops, and the final throw for an INT was nothing you could hold against him. I don't know if Mel Tucker is an answer, but if you have to play guys like Conte and Steltz, and don't have much of a pass rush, I think there are a lot of coaches considered defensive geniuses who would look like fools.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 29, 2013 -> 05:56 PM) why do you not go for 2 there? the one point gives you nothing. Weird. I think it shows he thinks the Bears are going to do some more scoring. Zero confidence in his defense.

Cutty is coming up big.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 29, 2013 -> 04:45 PM) That lateral was clearly forward. Almost 3 yards

That clearly was a forward latteral.

Cutler can shut a lot of people up with a good game today. A bad one, and his Jeff George comparisons will continue. Up until now, Cutler is the Javy Vazquez of the NFL. He can make that all go away in a few hours.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 27, 2013 -> 10:47 AM) Garcia is a non prospect who the Sox apparently don't even trust to be on the bench of a rotten team. He likely never starts in the majors and certainly should not be counted on going forward. Let's call a spade a spade. He certainly hasn't hit much to this point, but to call a 22 year old who made it to the major leagues as a 22 year old a non prospect even though he has mulitple plus tools, is just being a Debbie Downer. It's easy to say a prospect sucks. You can say that about Eaton, Davidison and A. Garcia, and chances are you will be more right than wrong just on those 3. Garcia has to develop some offense. Given the Sox lack of success developing that particular aspect of the game, he probably will not be all that great, but some tools are there. He's fast. He has a gun for an arm. He is going to most likely be an excellent defender at mutiple positions. He definitely has value at least as a bench player moving forward.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 26, 2013 -> 03:36 PM) Man, you really like to argue just to argue. Fine, they bought out his arb years plus 1, so they locked themselves into 4 years for a whole 32 million, not 7 years for 120. The situations aren't even comparable, you're just trying to make a point for some reason. You argued with my post which was correct. So any arguing to argue was brought on by you.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 26, 2013 -> 03:23 PM) The contract extension added one more guaranteed year, so yes he was. No. He was year to year before that. If he blew out his arm in September, the Sox could have walked away. It bought out arb years, but there is no obligation to offer him a contract. Do the Sox owe Dylan Axelrod money for the next several years?

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 26, 2013 -> 03:19 PM) He was under contract for most of those years already, much different story. No he wasn't. I don't think people realize Tanaka is only 5 months older than Sale.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 26, 2013 -> 03:16 PM) And as much as we all like Abreu we'd have a ton of money locked down on basically 2 prospects. I just honestly never want to give a pitcher a 6-7 year deal and that's what he's going to get. No thanks. Sale has a 6-7 year deal.

Bet the ranch on the Bears if they are getting 3.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Dec 26, 2013 -> 11:19 AM) There are big arms all around the league the Sox could take a shot on without giving up a key player, either making a deal around a lesser veteran like DeAza, a reliever, or a prospect. None of this costs huge payroll room. I agree with the poster who said we should wait until we are contenders to add big FA contracts, especially on the pitching side. Just think, what happens if Danks comes back to full health, and both Johnson and Beck/other RHSP turn into above-average MLB SP? By the time we're a real contender again, we could be 6 deep and dealing with a beautiful excess of SP for all we know. Let's spend our money elsewhere & not be stupid. I mean, if we were going to hand out that kind of money, why didn't we get in on Ellsbury or Cano? Why did we stay away from McCann? Hahn isn't spending Tanaka money anywhere, especially not on a pitcher. And it's unlikely to me that Jerry Reinsdorf would ever want to go along with that anyway, nor would I see Kenny Williams on board with that, and given all the options in his deals, I see no reason why we should expect Hahn to even ask any of those guys what they thought about a Tanaka type of deal. I bet Hahn has spent more time thinking about what he plans to offer DeAza in arb than why he'd offer Tanaka. No reason to even think about it at these rumored figures. If you have excess pitching, and no one ever really does, you can easily flip that excess for hitting.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 26, 2013 -> 10:37 AM) They can bid all they want, they just aren't going to outbid the rest of baseball. More than most likely, but that shouldn't be the reason not to bid.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Dec 26, 2013 -> 10:06 AM) You guys are bringing NPB stats into this thing, not me. I'm just pointing out how ridiculous it is to post them as some sort of indicator for success. Just like with the Cuban players, you go by talent & scouting. The Cubans seem to be far, far superior natural athletes anyway. In general. And they grow up with competition, just like in Japan. And while much of the league over there is junk, same thing in Japan, but the stars in Cuba are better, period. Tougher league, better players in general, better athletes. Give me Cubans over Japanese guys 7 days per week. But that's still not my argument, nor does it have anything to do with my argument. My argument is that it's foolish to chase Tanaka at what his cost is purported to be. Posting NPB stats does nothing to change that, nor does the posting of absurd contracts given out by other teams. We don't do that stuff. Abreu was the craziest thing we've ever done with an unproven player and there have been no signs from this organization anywhere that we'll not only continue that behavior, but go even wilder. No pun intended. Would you rather have Darvish or Contreras? Kurodo or El Duque? Pitching-wise, the Japanese have been better IMO, and I was the biggest Contreras fan there was.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Dec 26, 2013 -> 10:01 AM) Kazmir got something like $22M guaranteed, Vargas IIRC $32M guaranteed, etc. Meanwhile the Sox will be paying Erik Johnson the league minimum next year & even as a rookie I like how he stacks up in comparison. They'll be paying Quintana well under a million even if they give him a good raise, they'll be paying Sale $3.5M and Paulino $1.5M, and their big albatross is Danks, who if healthy again will look like a solid bargain at $14.25M per for 3 seasons. I'd say we should continue following our own model and f*** everyone else. And that model hasn't won consistently, in like, forever. I don't know what you have against top of the line players being added to the roster, maybe you like lost seasons, but if Tanaka is anywhere near as good as advertised, his signing would set this team up for year in, year out winning for years to come.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Dec 26, 2013 -> 09:37 AM) The Sox were desperate when they were bidding for Abreu, and they still got him at an average annual value of a shade over $11M per for 6 seasons. Compared (probably ambitiously) to Miguel Cabrera. If they could get Tanaka for anything even remotely close to it then go for it. You can't. That's the point. You have to draw a line somewhere. Considering Scott Kazmir gets $11 million a year on the open market, I think you need to adjust what you think is a lot and not a lot of money now. Things have changed. MLB teams, including the White Sox, are flush with cash. There is zero reason for any of us on a message board trying to be responsible with JR's money. It's available if he wants to spend it. This is a unique opportunity. You don't sit around and say, well maybe in 2 or 3 years we will bid on someone. That opportunity may not come. You take advantage of opportunities when they occur. Passing and waiting on the next one or maybe the one after that, usually leaves you with nothing. Maybe the Sox scouts aren't all that high on Tanaka. If that is the case, that is the ONLY reason they should not be involved in trying to acquire him for nothing but cash.

I don't understand how anyone could come to a conclusion this guy is at best a #3. He walks no one. He gives up very few homers. His strikeout rate has declined, but is still good. His ERA the last 3 years is 1.27,1.87,1.27. 25 years old. There is nothing to suggest he is anything but an ace.

If you are ever going to spend $100+ on a free agent pitcher, a 25 year old is your best bet considering the length the contract is going to have to be to get him. I realize the Sox have next to no chance to get him, but not getting involved would be a mistake. Make him say no. Pick 4 of Sale, Tanaka, Q, Johnson, the #3 pick...I could be the 5th starter and that team would be tough to beat. This is exactly what you get to build teams around. Scouts say he has the best splitter in the world, and say he should adapt faster to MLB because, unlike most Japanese pitchers, he pitches off his fastball. Most pitch backwards. The risk you take is an injury risk, but you take that with every player you acquire. I don't think there's much of a chance he's not very successful if he is healthy. At worst, if he performs, you can always trade him. The Sox signed Peavy last year. It didn't work out but did turn into Avasail Garcia. Money doesn't appear to be much of an object these days. Bring as many quality players to your team as possible.

QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Dec 25, 2013 -> 09:36 AM) If you're asking me personally, I'd rather we save our money for next year and go after both Jed Lowrie and James Shields. Or we could go really crazy and throw $300 at Kershaw... So a better way to spend money on a 25 year old ace is to throw even more money at a 32 year old or spend $300 million on another.

QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Dec 24, 2013 -> 02:55 PM) Surkamp is probably just as good as Danks at this point. And you say people are talking out of their ass about Beckham. I thought you like to aggregate data.

QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Dec 24, 2013 -> 01:17 PM) Think he'll finally learn how to pull the ball? There are no data remotely suggesting a "breakout" -- you all need to stop talking out of your ass and give up on the dream. He hit 16 homers in 2012, and in 2013 was hitting over .300 in the middle of August when he went down with the quad. His wrist injury zapped his power. If he stays healthy, and that is a huge if, a lot of people are going to be surprised, and even some haters will flip and say they knew he had it in him all along.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 24, 2013 -> 12:57 PM) The question is...what happens if we're talking about the 5th guy out of 5 and there's really not a big difference between them? The one they think will have more success. Picking starting pitchers based on handed-ness to me would be like selecting a HS catcher with the #3 pick because of need. A guy doesn't hit a pitcher hard because the guy who started the day before him was close in stuff and threw with the same hand. He hits him hard because he hung a curveball or his mediocre fastball got too much of the plate. You put the guy who would do less of that in the rotation.