Dick Allen

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 12:11 PM) Considering the number of homers Konerko and Rios hit, Dunn will bat with guys on base hitting behind deAza and Keppinger just as much if not more than if he hits behind Konerko and Rios. So by batting him 3rd you maximize the amount he hits with runners on plus you have guys behind him that can drive him in when he walks. If Viciedo and/or Flowers have breakout years then you might be able to make a case for sliding Dunn down to 5th behind Konerko/Rios and in front of Viciedo/Flowers, but as it stands now Dunn's walks will get wasted if he doesn't bat before Konerko/Rios. Check out Dunn's numbers over his career. His walks have not translated into runs. You have him bat behind those guys. Dunn drives people in with homers, so having Konerko on base when he is batting is almost like having Rickey Henderson on base when he's batting. If he bats in front of Viciedo, he'll score just as often after he walks as Viciedo homers at about the same clip as Konerko these days. I'd like a guy who gets more hits batting 3rd considering the Sox wouldn't be forfeiting OBP.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 11:51 AM) His OBP coming from walks is exactly why he needs to be hitting in front of Konerko/Rios and not behind them. He's not going to hit for enough average to drive in Konerko/Rios, but he will get on base enough for them to drive him in. How hard is that to understand? You want a low average/high walk guy before your best hitters, not after them. No The argument is that the 3 hole hitter bats a lot with 2 out and nobody on base. Dunn was a significantly better hitter both slugging and getting on base with runners on. He only got on base at a .314 clip with the bases empty and had an OPS near .900 with runners on. And he didn't score very many runs last year when he didn't drive himself in. You will argue that is not his fault, and it probably isn't, but it does point to a flaw in your logic.That is why it is hard to understand. What you are saying didn't occur. Maybe your theory would be correct with a guy who runs better , and can get himself into scoring position with doubles or stolen bases, but Adam doesn't do that much anymore.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 11:43 AM) In every thread where you've gone off about Dunn, myself and/or others have pointed out that while Dunn isn't anywhere near the player the Sox expected him to be, he still put up a .333 OBP and drew 100+ walks on a team that is sorely lacking in OBP and moving him down to where he has Ramirez and Beckham hitting behind him would make the lineup even worse than it already is. If you disagree with that assessment, then fine, but STFU about people not showing statistically why Dunn should be batting 3rd. A .333 OBP was 5th among White Sox regulars. Considering he isn't much of a baserunner and most of that OBP is a walk, it's a pretty weak argument.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 11:08 AM) Not at the expense of everything else (history, age, injury etc) that's the difference. I'm not willing to blindly write him off when there are plausible explanations for performance. Now you are defending Dunn, and you are the same guy who was getting slammed for his low first half grade for him last year. All I have been saying is he is no 3 hole hitter, but you want to argue for no apparent reason other than to argue. I won't take the bait. Why don't you just show me statistically or otherwise why Adam Dunn's performance makes him the best candidate to bat third?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 10:10 AM) And interesting thing I found about his injury. Don't know what kind of faith to put into it, but it was more interesting than the whole "he just sucks" theory, with no consideration to anything but statistics and hate. http://blog.anklefootmd.com/2012/06/15/whi...le-instability/ First off I don't hate Dunn. I don't think he's worth what the Sox are paying him and don't think he should bat 3rd, but I don't know why you would have a problem with someone using statistics and hate to rate a player. Its exactly what you use when discussing AJ.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 10:01 AM) Are you saying that injuries that correspond to when Dunn had his big drop offs mean nothing? What I am saying is he didn't get the job done for 4 months. Are you saying if a guy isn't getting the job done because he's just bad is a reason to move him in the line up, but if he's hurt you just continue to watch him fail? I also highly doubt is ankle injury was a 2 or 3 month thing.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 09:55 AM) Or right about the time that he sprained his ankle in June? It actually started at the end of May, are you saying Adam was injured the last 4 months and that is the reason for his tail off? Irregardless, if he isn't getting the job done in the 3 hole, he shouldn't be hitting in the 3 hole, and he wasn't the last 4 months of the season.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 09:51 AM) Dunn went south after his oblique injury. That is a pretty game changing injury for a pure power hitter. He actually started heading south around Memorial Day. Whatever witesox said, I'm not necessarily an Adam Dunn hater. The Sox are stuck with him and his homers do provide value. He just needs to be moved down in the line up.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 09:45 AM) And in his White Sox career, he had the worst season of all time with one of the worst managers in White Sox history (noting that 2009-10 Ozzie was horrendous). You are including an anamoly in those numbers. I'm walking away from this. I know how you feel about Dunn. I think it's very wrong. June he hit .181 with a .333 OBP July he hit .211 with a .311 OBP That's pretty brutal out of the 3 hole. Walk away because you are wrong. 4 out of 6 months in 2012, Adam Dunn was a little better than he was when he had to be held out at the end of the year to keep from having officially the worst season of all time. I hope if he's batting 3rd in 2012, he's not the hitter he has been 10 of the 12 months he's played baseball in a White Sox uniform.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 09:31 AM) Yes, those are ideal. Due to those numbers and his career numbers, he is the ideal #3 hitter for the White Sox. It's possible he may struggle again, while also being possible that he hits .220 or .230, in which case he's extremely valuable. But you don't like Dunn so you won't see past that. I can see past it, but 2011 was brutal and his OBP was .305 the last 4 months of 2012 with an OPS below .750 despite leading the league in walks. Seems the one looking past something is you. That's not even counting Dunn being a base clogger and if he's not homering, chances are if he reaches, he's on first base. Adam Dunn is a .184/.315/.385/.700 hitter in his White Sox career. That is not an ideal #3 hitter.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 09:31 AM) Yes, those are ideal. Due to those numbers and his career numbers, he is the ideal #3 hitter for the White Sox. It's possible he may struggle again, while also being possible that he hits .220 or .230, in which case he's extremely valuable. But you don't like Dunn so you won't see past that. I can see past it, but 2011 was brutal and his OBP was .305 the last 4 months of 2012 with an OPS below .750 despite leading the league in walks. Seems the one looking past something is you.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 09:18 AM) No, traditional baseball wisdom says your best hitter hits 4th. I've been over this before, Dunn is perfect for the 3 spot. Maybe in April 2012 and May 2012 during his White Sox career. Other than that, no way.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 08:45 AM) So now MLB is getting into 1990's technology in 2013. How hard would it be to have touch-screen computer terminals in the dugout and bullpen and have the manager or pitching coach just pick from a list of relievers on the screen and have it flash on the bullpen screen? Stop with the logic.

Alan Trammell according to Bill James is the 9th best SS of all time. I don't know if he is that high, or Bill James is that high, but the guy was a great player both offensively and defensively. He's definitely HOF material.

Interesting. I wonder if they will be subject to the can't get a signal that is rampant in a lot of parks.

Bonds, Biggio, Raines, Smith also Trammell.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 7, 2013 -> 01:39 PM) There's no rebuilding going on. Why should fans be excited about bringing last years team back? Why should fans freak out about the roster 3 months before the season starts?

QUOTE (bhawk99 @ Jan 7, 2013 -> 01:36 PM) I just saw Hahn's picture on the side of a milk carton. Is there an Amber alert out for him? As a die hard life long Sox fan I hate to say this but as of right now we just are not good enough to beat Detroit. Say what you want about Kenny but at least he made the off seasons interesting. Was a castation included in Hahn's promotion? Grow a set Rick and make a move. Let us know you still are alive. KW's big move in his first offseason as a GM was acquiring Boomer Wells. The transaction took place on January 14th. Hahn has already signed a top of the line FA and a middle of the road FA.

QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 7, 2013 -> 11:39 AM) On being a nominee for the NBA Hall of Fame JR is the best owner ever He was smart enough to buy the Bulls no money down with Michael Jordan on the roster. That alone should make him a HOFer.

QUOTE (balfanman @ Jan 7, 2013 -> 11:13 AM) In reality, I'm just trying to kill time on a slow day at work and nothing happening with the Sox. I noticed this quote from our friend PTATC in the NFL thread talking about RGIII injury. Interestingly enough the first real high profile athlete this was done with was Ozzie Guillen after he had that collision with Tim Raines. Up until that point it was common place to do the surgery as soon as possible. It was the case that brought the idea to mainstream sports medicine. Just got me to thinking, could the reason Tim Raines left the orginization be due to Guillen still holding a grudge on this? Anybody know for sure? Ozzie was the one who brought Raines in to coach. That was interesting that he was the model. Ozzie was never the same after his injury.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 7, 2013 -> 09:04 AM) Winning 85 games and being in the race until the end has its value too. It's obviously not preferred, but it's a hell of a lot better than a 67 win team. That is what people don't understand. If the Sox tanked the next 3 or 4 years, sure their draft picks would be higher, but if they developed players, a big if, attendance would be down, advertising would be down, they wouldn't be able to retain the guys who are successful and the cycle continues again. They don't have the gimmick of a new park and an old one shutting down to spur attendance. I know some people here say they would surely go to more games if the Sox went into a total rebuild. Of course they are the same people that write off young players after a bad week.

QUOTE (RadioHost @ Jan 5, 2013 -> 12:52 PM) How do you know this? Do you have sources within the baseball? Sorry this is my first post in years. I do have a friend of a friend where I get infrequent info but he was asked if the Sox roster is pretty much set for spring training and was told not a chance. It is not earth shattering news and a huge scoop. It's more bernsteinesque, but we shouldn't be arguing current roster because that is going to change in the next few weeks. And I have no idea what names are on their way out or what is coming in.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 5, 2013 -> 12:47 PM) What about the Verducci effect on Sale that Ginger Kid brought up? Studies have shown the Verducci effect to be a myth.

Trades are going to happen pretty soon. They will not be going to spring training as currently constructed.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 4, 2013 -> 02:18 PM) The winning percentage is far enough apart. So there is that George 1 playoff victory in 10 seasons, Cutler 1 playoff victory in 7 with a new coach and new OC coming. As for his passer rating, he's never been in the top 10 in any season. 20th this year, 16th last year, 11th in 2010, 21st in 2009, 16th in 2008 and 12th in 2007. There's enough there to say he's been average. He may be at a little lower end, but George's career, when you take everything into consideration, probably is considered average.