Dick Allen

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 22, 2011 -> 07:15 PM) Like Gordon Beckham? Cooper made Lance Broadway a stud. Aaron Poreda is a HOFer. Please. Humber and Floyd were top 4 picks I believe and Floyd doesn't even have a league average ERA.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 22, 2011 -> 07:12 PM) I kind of asked this in the other thread, but I'll ask it here too... Who is Greg Walkers Esteban Loiaza that he plucked from a minor league deal to the all-star game? Who is his Phil Humber that he picked up off of waivers that he turned into a solid starting hitter in his first year here after failing at all other stops? Who is his Gavin Floyd that he turned around from awful and down on himself into an everyday player with solid numbers? Who is his Sergio Santos that he literally taught how to hit from nothing? The whole silliness of why doesn't Cooper catch grief when a pitcher does bad is because he as a history of doing some amazing things. Greg Walker doesnt' have nearly that history. KW doesn't acquire those players offensively, but Carlos Quentin was a guy who probably was the MVP in 2008 if he doesn't get hurt. He made Aaron Rowand a ton of money. When he took over in 2003 Paulie was hitting like Adam Dunn without the whiffs, and as long as you're talking one year wonders, Uribe was much better offensively in 2003 with the Sox than he was with Colorado in 2002.

Brooks Boyer should tell Hawk to stiffle the "race for second place" crap. If second place in the AL Central is any reason to celebrate even a little bit, no wonder the Sox are a dissappointment.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 22, 2011 -> 07:07 PM) And if he wants to do that, he probably needs to answer something like which hitters have been brought in off of a minor league contract and turned into decently regarded hitters and all-stars? How many high first round draft picks has KW brought in offensively? Quentin was one, and he did OK.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Sep 22, 2011 -> 12:35 PM) Coop gets a good amount of praise because his predecessor was abysmal. You can not complain about the staff results as a whole under Cooper especially compared to Walker. Yet Buerhle had just as much if not more success under Nardi Contreras. I don't see where Adam Dunn is Walker's fault but Billy Koch wouldn't be Cooper's.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 21, 2011 -> 09:38 PM) Does Walker deserve credit here? Absolutely not. Only if a hitter fails is it proper to give Walker "credit". Now if Morel was a pitcher and pitching in Sept. like he has been hitting, you know it would be because of the fabulous work of one Mr. Don Cooper.

QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Sep 21, 2011 -> 09:18 PM) Kotsay/Thome, yes. but let's not forget that both of Kenny's kiddos are playing in the sox system. One was picked wayyyyyyyy too high. One of Ozzie's kids played A ball for a period and then got bounced. then the sox failed to pick Ozzie's other son, not once but twice. I think that -- along with the natural bruising that comes with two huge alpha male egos -- was also a major factor. be gone -- both of them. Neither one is worth the aggravation any longer. I think Sox fans would be happier with a more cerebral approach -- like a Friedman. I agree they both need to be gone, but to be fair only one of KW's sons plays in the White Sox organization, and while he was drafted way too high, when he was Ozney's age when the Sox drafted Ozney, KW's kid was selected by the Sox in the 36th round and didn't sign. If Ozney was a top 3 round prospect like the Guillens believe, its hard to imagine why all the other organizations passed him over 100 times. Even the Marlins didn't feel Ozney was worth drafting.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 09:03 PM) Yes, Dave Magadan is getting a fair amount of grief for Crawford, he's tried to rebuild his swing but it is being described as "mechanically unsound". And if kw traded Beckham for scraps after his first 30 at bats...no one would have blamed walker, they'd have been furious with Kenny. Just like I was about the hudson trade. Magadan is getting grief and the Red Sox lead the world in runs, slugging, OPS, and second in batting average? Yeah, he sucks.

I know JR has a special place in his heart for Ozzie, but I wonder if he feels betrayed at all with Ozzie using the media angling for a new contract and USING Cowley as his mouthpiece.

The best thing that happened for us but the worst thing that happened for their relationship was winning the WS. Their egos couldn't take the other one getting credit for the victory, and it deteriorated and deteriorated. The Thome thing hurt, Oney's tweets didn't help much and Ozney not being picked in the first few rounds hurt, but Oney wouldn't have been tweeting what he was tweeting at the beginning if their relationship was solid.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 09:32 PM) 98 would be about Oney's IQ... He'd get a 98 on an IQ test, only if he guessed correctly on a lot of questions.

QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 09:26 PM) Just think if he leaves.. This place will have an entire new scapegoat to pin Kenny's failures on next year. I hope JR fires them both. Why does Ozzie deserve to stay? If the answer is 2005, then Kenny deserves to stay. The reason..........2005.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 09:20 PM) I think we just have 2 guys, Quentin and Pierre, who stand very close to the plate Beckham has been hit 12 times. Quentin will help a team lead the category, but the Sox never retaliate. There was no question Konerko was drilled on purpose tonight and he was pissed about it. It would have been nice to dust someone after that. Might have saved Anorexei a bruise.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 09:19 PM) I see, so he might well be so good you don't want him at leadoff. Clearly that would be a bad thing. Ideally he'd like the guy who makes the most outs in the league leading off. This guy has to either be Cowley or be related to Ozzie.

QUOTE (kjshoe04 @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 09:11 PM) Why? Did Juan Pierre just get in a time machine and emerge 6 years younger? Considering he would be replacing 2011 Juan Pierre you'd be a fool not to believe that's what you were referring to. Nice try though. Not only that, but if Pierre took a 50% paycut, he'd still be making 10 times what they would have to pay De Aza.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 09:09 PM) Ozzie won't protect his boys. According to Hawk and Stone, we've been hit the most and hit others the least. Maybe its just my imagination, but it seems we hear this just about every year. Perhaps teams take liberty knowing the Sox won't retaliate, just like they throw 85 mph fastballs down the middle on 3-0 because they know the Sox aren't swinging.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 08:28 PM) What manager would rather manage the 2012 White Sox on a one-year contract rather than the 2012 Marlins on a multi-year contract? The Sox are in a downward spiral, Guillen knows that and wants out. Can't blame him. I don't think anyone is going to hold him back. Who wouldn't want to work for Loria and all his meddling. Maybe Joe Girardi has some thoughts.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 08:49 PM) Dick, curious what your thoughts are on this article from a couple weeks ago. I quoted a big chunk of it in one of our threads. Pay particular attention to section "no. 3". I did read that, and its funny how that works. Depending on the argument BABIP, if its low someone will say it shows unluckiness. Now they use it as a reason to fire the hitting coach. I don't know what that would have to do with Walker. Did you read what Carlton Fisk said in that article. It was up top you have to click on it. He played major league baseball, I'd think he would have a better idea of hitting coaches than Dan Bernstein no matter what SS2K5 says.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 08:44 PM) Look at that list. Hudson had no chance to get better here. Vazquez had a great 2007 and was decent in 2 other years. Richard was made by Cooper out of a non prospect. MMac was great in 06 and never matched that again. Hora io Freaking Ramirez? Gmab, that's like blaming walker for Kotsay. Excuses all around. Look at Vazquez the year after he left the Sox. His two "decent years were 4.84 and 4.67. There's obviously a little difference in decent pitching seasons vs. decent offensive seasons in your mind. If a hitter was hitting like Hudson was pitching when he was traded and started hitting like Hudson started pitching afterwards, you can't tell me Walker wouldn't have been blasted. The bottom line is you could only remember one. I mentioned 8 or 9 off the top of my head. There are plenty of pitching failures. It happens. Even Floyd and Danks are above the league average ERA this year. No one blames Cooper, and its most likely not is fault, just like its most likely not Walker's fault Dunn has been as bad as he's been, or Rios is sleepwalking through 2011 or Beckham has been struggling. Are they blaming Boston's hitting coach for Carl Crawford?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 08:28 PM) How often do pitchers come to Chicago and get worse? How often do we call a left guy up, give him time to develop, and wind up with nothing? I literally can't think of a case since the 2007 bullpen with aardsma. Javy Vazquez, Daniel Hudson, Mike MacDougal, Scott Linebrink, Clayton Richard, Jake Peavy, Nick Massett, Andy Sisco, David Riske, Horatio Ramirez, Tony Pena, Ehren Wasserman to name a few. Some not so dramatic but still not exactly pitching coach genius. Players fail. White Sox fans have it out for Walker which is a shame because he is probably as proud to be a White Sox as anyone.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 08:25 PM) I'm guessing it's mostly due to Cooper's reputation of taking a guy that formerly underachieved and turning him into a legitimate pitcher. With Walker, the reverse seems to happen or there is little improvement, if any at all. That's the perception, its not the reality. Thome and Dye hit pretty well with Sox. Swisher was a bust, but its well documented he didn't work with Walker. Dunn has sucked. Rios has sucked except for the first half last year. Beckham has had his moments, but has been a dissappointment. Everyone else seems to me to pretty much have hit what you would have expected if not better over the years.

I think Paulie was hit on purpose. I'd like a Sox pitcher to respond with some chin music next inning.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 08:18 PM) But Cooper failed as much, if not more...apparently. If just once someone blamed Cooper and was actually serious about it, when a pitcher sucked like they blame Walker when a hitter sucked, I'd stop my crusade.

The Bust with 3 doubles. These games are meaningless, but hopefully he's on to something.

QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 08:07 PM) So pretty much you just summed up what Pierre did at age 28... Thank you agreeing, at best he is Pierre. He has more power than Pierre and defensively is head and shoulders better. You have several screws loose, better get those tightened up. And even if he was just like Pierre when Pierre was 28, its when Juan was with the Cubs, he'd be being paid about 7% of what Juan was being paid.