Dick Allen

If the Sox are going to lose this one, its really going to be tough to make the playoffs. Oh well, a family of 4 can get to Soxfest for only $616 except they can't eat anything or park their car.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 7, 2011 -> 07:50 PM) Just think how good things will be when Viciedo hits well enough that he can move in front of Rios. He's not a veteran and can't handle the pressure of hitting in those spots. Rios and Dunn handle it quite well. Wait......................

Rios hit into a DP. That has to be Greg Walker's fault.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 6, 2011 -> 07:40 PM) And base whether or not the out should have been made based on positioning, speed, and distance. In a few years there will be computer data on player positioning at the start of plays and batted ball velocity that will make this easy. (Field F/X). It will be interesting to see how that effects the results. I believe in some metrics, I also beleive in the eye test. Alexei could win the GG every year, but he makes too many plays like the 2 he made tonight. Its going to happen once in a while, but he is so afraid of baserunners its almost pathetic.

QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Sep 6, 2011 -> 07:36 PM) I will state this briefly about Gordon, he should be in AAA at the start of the season this year. IMO they rushed him up here. Which is why I was glad they never called up DV, until later on this year. Rios IMO should have never been on this club, hated this move.. even last year. But, with that said to answer your question.. They were given enough time, but who replaces them.. Is Brett L an everyday player? At the time is Mark T, a better choice? I didn't see anyone on the 25-man roster that was a better choice.. and that's not Ozzie's fault. Is it? The point the objectors to Ozzie are making is even if he had to play Rios and Dunn to "get them out of their slumps", he didn't need to be putting them in the spots usually reserved for run producers.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 6, 2011 -> 07:37 PM) I believe that one is outs produced divided by chances. That one is 5 years out of date anyway. For things like UZR they actually review plays like the ones you're talking about to see if a play could have been made. So they look at them with their eyes?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 6, 2011 -> 07:34 PM) 75% of overturned death penalty convictions involve overturning eewitness testimony. Metrics are a lot more reliable than your eyes. How is range factor determined?

Hawk sucking the Twins balls. Look at the standings, this team is awful.

De Aza has been as impressive as any call up.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 6, 2011 -> 07:27 PM) No he hasn't. Pick your metric. They all disagree. Metrics don't measure the 2 plays he just blew. He was afraid of the baserunner so no DP. He dropped an out, SB no error. He often sets up for a throw to second way in front of 2B. He's a wuss. A very talented wuss who could be awesome if he wasn't so afraid of possible contact.

QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Sep 6, 2011 -> 07:21 PM) I have question in regards to this... How does a player get out of slump if he is not in said lineup? I also in the minority in this thread, I don't think Ozzie is the #1, 2 or 3 problem with this club. He is more like #4 So you just leave them in the 3 or 4 or 5 hole. Then why move Beckham out of the 2 hole? Why not go with the same line up every freaking day? Who cares what you see. Are you suggesting Dunn and Rios weren't afforded enough time to get out of their slumps? My question back to you is when does actually winning become a bigger priority than making sure you don't hurt feelings?

Alexei is talented, but a p****.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 6, 2011 -> 01:42 AM) Great post. The Sox record is miraculously good considering he has Dunn n Rios. But many on here amazingly blame him for Dunn n Rios. Sad. No one has blamed Ozzie for Dunn and Rios. They may blame him for them being in the line up too long or too high in the line up for too long.

If Ozzie is gone, I believe the odds on favorite to be the new manager is Sandy Alomar Jr. His baseball acumen is beloved by the White Sox organization. They have said he's a manager in waiting for years, since he was playing. The Sox generally like guys with no major league managerial experience the last 20 years or so.........

Thornton's ERA is now lower than Santos '.

QUOTE (flavum @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 03:53 PM) I've heard a couple writers say Hahn won't want the Sox GM job if Kenny is still there above him. The whole "promote Kenny" thing never made a lot of sense anyway. Once he's no longer the GM, he's just got to be gone. That's what I've always said. If you determine he's not the man for the job, why do you want him up in the new GM's business? And why would Hahn or anyone else really want to be the GM in title only. People use this because that is what happened with Paxson, but its 2 separate issues. Paxton tired of dealing with the press and all the things that went with being a GM. He wasn't moved up for incompetence. He wanted a lighter workload and now has it. As far as I know, and I could be way off, KW still wants to get into arguments with coaches and fire them Steinbrenner-style. He wants to make the decisions. Pay him his $1 million parting gift and let him hang out at Market. I do think if only one survives, it will be KW.

QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 03:21 PM) I never said they were in "great shape", I said that one team every year comes out of nowhere to win their division, and the white sox might as well be that team. I added that they certainly had to win 4 of 6 against the tigs. Halfway down, I also indicated that the research I just did illuminated some things that I did not know, which is to say that I did not know that no team that started like this ever made the playoffs. Didn't Boston start out 0-6 this season and no team had ever made the playoffs with that start? If you're saying the season was over at 11-22, that's a bigger indictment against KW and OG as they made it a point in spring training this year that a good start was a must. The way Ozzie used guys in spring training was supposed to make them as ready as can be to start the year as slow starts have hurt this team in the standings before and at the gate. I guess when they were a couple games out a few weeks ago, it really didn't matter that Adam Dunn was batting clean up or that Alex Rios was playing everyday. The research is nice, but the Sox play in a lousy division with a payroll much higher than most teams with that start. Whatever the problem is, the OG/KW fued needs to go away, and the best way for it to go away is not declare one the winner, that would make the future worse. Make them both losers, and cue up Nancy Faust with a na, na, na , na.

Call me crazy, but I really like De Aza. I think he's an upgrade in 2012 leading off instead of Pierre.

QUOTE (LVSoxFan @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 12:59 PM) No kidding. I missed those games--as I tend to do when they're West coast. Either way, I think the only thing that is going to jolt JR into action is the people who DO actually hold management accountable: the fans. Their attendance has been crap this year and I shudder to think what it's going to be like for the rest of the month. Another thing: this has been one of the more unlikeable teams that I can remember. Except for some of our vets and go-to guys like Lilly--who's to like? Dunn? Rios? Morel? Probably the most pleasant surprise has been Flowers, but he really didn't get to play until, what, weeks ago? It's going to be scary empty at the Cell for the rest of this month. Boring makes the team "unlikeable". If Dunn hit 40 homers and Beckham was hitting .285 and Rios .285, most people would love this team.

QUOTE (LVSoxFan @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 12:50 PM) People here have been, yes, screaming for Walker's head for at least that long now--the fact that he's remained is astounding, but not surprising in light of the talk that his relationship with JR saves him. But Jesus, when you've got the announcers for national sports networks openly criticizing our players' hitting mechanics during the TELECAST, how much more obvious could it be that a new hitting coach should be the LEAST of our changes. That, and the fact that Beckham was a better hitter when he got here than he is now. That's alarming. The fact that they didn't fire Walker months ago--as some sort of a jolt to this staggering franchise--set the table for where we are now. Nobody is held accountable for anything. Moving up the chain, Cubs GM Hendry was let go, despite having taken them to the playoffs twice, for his bad contracts: Fukodome, Soriano, Zambrano. Well here you have KW with his Dunn, Rios and Peavy contracts--the former two which have screwed us for at least a couple of years--so why does he not just resign? They need to bring Rudy Jaramillo in. I'm sure the Cubs would let him walk. All of the Cubs have perfect approaches at the plate. Walker is gone after this season. We'll see how this simple fix works in 2012. Has anyone who is blaming Walker played baseball beyond the freshman level in HS?

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 09:58 AM) Pierre lf Ramirez ss Konerko 1b Pierzynski c Viciedo rf Dunn dh De Aza cf Vizquel 3b Beckham 2b Humber p At least he's giving Rios a seat not Viciedo or De Aza.

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Sep 5, 2011 -> 09:14 AM) It's all a crapshoot. A manager is generally only as good as the players perform. Did Joe Torre, who had 1 first place finish in his first 15 years as a manager, become an infinitely better manager when he became the Yankees boss? Or were his players better? Is Ron Gardenhire a bad manager this year? I'm not saying those guys are bad candidates but I don't expect the Sox to be any better if Rios and Dunn are on the team and performing like they did this year. For a manager to have a nice win/loss record he better have good players. You are right there. The problem with Ozzie is all the decision making. Leaving Dunn and Rios in the line up as long as he did without even moving them down. Not putting opponents best hitters or hitters that own the pitchers on the mound with first base open on first and letting them beat you time and time again. Never letting his hitters swing at 3-0 meatballs. Continuing to bunt with people who can't bunt. With a LHP on the mound, having Alexei Ramirez bunt a runner over to second so Paulie can be walked and Dunn can strikeout vs the lefty. We have seen way too much of this. Even Hawk appears to have grown weary. Its time for him to go. Its time for KW to go. Maybe in the next couple of years we can all be thanking someone else for winning the WS and they won't let it get to their heads like these 2 knuckleheads let it get to theirs.

Lou Holtz made a career out of wondering if he could beat teams with 210 pound left tackles when he was stacked with All Americans. Ozzie's "I hope we don't get swept" was nothing, but it still will be nice if someone else is making out the line up card at USCF next season. Just remember he also said he had guys ready to play before the game last night.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Sep 4, 2011 -> 10:41 PM) Wow, I actually agree with Ozzie totally there. I agree with the concept, but they obviously weren't ready to play tonight.

Here's a pre-game quote from Ozzie. As for players not ready to play tomorrow, maybe you should have had them ready to play tonight. Having Sunday's game moved to an 8 p.m. (Eastern time) start was not exactly what the Sox wanted in the first place, given Monday's day-night doubleheader in Minnesota, but Guillen insisted on a no-whining zone about the team's plight. "I don't want to hear any complaints either when we go to play two games in Minnesota," he said. "Get another job. If you think this is tough, try to do somebody else's job. "We get paid very well, we have a great life, then the least we can do is play a day-night doubleheader. Anybody on my club is not ready to play two games, make sure you let me know. I have people here who are ready to play."