Dick Allen

QUOTE (Sockin @ Aug 23, 2011 -> 10:39 PM) http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...home-again.html Its the typical Guillen trait. Forget what he did last year, Ozzie had nothing to do with Thome leaving. Oney did the same thing. Last year when Kotsay hit his second homer and it helped the Sox win, Thome was riding pine in Minnesota and had 2 homers. Oney tweeted that it was obvious the "skipper" which is what he calls his dad, made the right choice. Oney also tweeted that although Thome was a nice guy, he really wasn't a winner. When "the choice" was clearly wrong, it went from 100 percent Ozzie Guillen's decision to Ozzie had nothing to do with it, blame Kenny Williams. Looks like Ozzie is going the same way.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Aug 23, 2011 -> 09:38 PM) I find that award is more about offense than defense. A good publicity tour can win it. Its voted on by managers and coaches and they can't vote for their own. I think they vote more who they would want in their line up at SS than who they thought had the best year fielding.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Aug 23, 2011 -> 09:30 PM) The central might finally be evolving again. Indians have some nice young players and if the Royals ever put it together... I think Cleveland got a ton of breaks with a lot of come from behind victories this year and are still at the Sox level with the Sox playing most of the year with basically a guy hitting like a pitcher in the clean up spot. KC has some heralded players, but they have to do it at the major league level before I believe. Detroit could be a problem because the get Maggs off the books, will probably have some playoff cash this year and Illich will probably spend on pitching. Minnesota has huge question marks.

We don't know the roster for 2012. They may be average, they may be outstanding. The division is still going to suck so they won't have to be all that great to have a good year. I wouldn't assume Dunn is going to snap out of it next year. I bet Seattle fans thought Chone Figgins would have improved on his 2010 this year. If he does perform like he did before this year, that will be a huge bump, if he's like he is this year, hopefully Ozzie or whoever is making out the line up card isn't afraid to keep him out of the line up.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Aug 23, 2011 -> 09:25 PM) At least Minny is losing big. (remember when that used to mean something?) I have the feeling they are going to be bad for many years.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Aug 23, 2011 -> 09:24 PM) none of this would've happened if dunn could field for s***. Or if the SS with a cannon for an arm could throw the ball to first. No question a decent defensive first baseman probably scoops it, but high school SS make thost throws routinely.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 23, 2011 -> 09:23 PM) Poor Mark getting hosed by the defense. Buerhle has had troubles pitching around errors for years.

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 23, 2011 -> 09:19 PM) And that's what I'm saying, any metric that shows he's an above-average defensive SS to me seems flawed. The pop flies that he screws up without an error, the alligator arms he gets on some throws with the runners close to the bag getting teammates errors, his setting up way in front of 2B eliminating chances of throwing runners out all slides, the amount of times Paulie has to save his ass an error all work in his favor saber-wise. He could be outstanding but he gets real lazy and sometimes scared.

Alexei could win the GG every year but plays like that stay in the voters minds. Get your f***ing head in the f***ing game. You would think a guy with his background would really appreciate what he has now.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Aug 23, 2011 -> 07:45 PM) You're overvaluing Thornton's 60 innings pitched. No, he's still one of the best in the league. Dumping him basically to save money, and not getting back value would be a huge mistake.

So people want Sale in the rotation and Thornton on another team. If you want Sale in the rotation Thornton has to stay. If you want Thornton gone, you better find another decent lefty for the bullpen or it will be a long year next year.

Too bad Manny isn't available.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Aug 20, 2011 -> 08:57 PM) My whacked out theory is Reinsdorf and Kenny want Walker gone more than Ozzie. They only way the get rid of Walker is to get rid of Ozzie. This may be the reason why we haven't seen Viciedo up. They might be afraid Viciedo could be the next flash in a pan rookie under the Walker era. The story earlier was KW wanted to make a coach or coaches sacrificial lambs, but JR wouldn't let him. I'm not really sure KW had much conviction. I think he viewed it as a move just to make a move, which could be why JR rejected it. I can guarantee they don't think Walker will ruin Viciedo. The did call him up last season and he did pretty well.

What will be great is once Walker is gone, and I'd say its most likely he's in his final month or so as a White Sox coach, there will be no reason to make any personnel changes. Rios will be a monster, Dunn will instantly go back to being what he was, and there will be no reason Beckham won't hit .320 with 20 homers next year. Who is everyone going to blame when it doesn't happen?

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Aug 20, 2011 -> 12:49 PM) Rios, Dunn, Beckham, Morel, Teahen (essentially half the team) all reached career worsts as professional hitters under Walker's watch this year. Others, Q and Lexi, are trending slightly downward, IMO. ONLY Paulie has improved steadily over time. I can't really see how you can continue to stick up for the guy, DA, other than the "hitting coach makes no difference anyway" argument. The Cubs broke the bank for Rudy Jaramillo. Aren't they the worst in the league with RISP? Wasn't he going to make Soriano worth his contract? How's Soto doing? If you really think Rios and Dunn and Beckham we will leave Morel the rookie out of this and Teahen sample size and he's not doing better in Toronto, would be doing much better with another hitting coach, good for you. I disagree.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Aug 20, 2011 -> 12:48 PM) I now want Walker fired for no other reason than to see your reaction. And if the major leagues is only for tweaking hitters, Walker has failed at that too. Time for him to do whatever he does in the postseason permanently. Yet as I showed many times, since Walker has been the hitting coach, the offense has outranked the pitching half the time. When pitchers suck, its because they suck. When baserunners don't take extra bases or do stupid things, its because they have a low baseball IQ. When defenders throw to the wrong base or make ill-advised attempts, its because they are dumb. When Sox hitters don't hit, its because Greg Walker is the hitting coach. I wonder who is going to be blamed when he is gone. If KW is acquiring guys in trades or free agency, or promoting hitters to the major leagues that Greg Walker has to change their swing and teach them how to hit, there is a bigger problem here.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 20, 2011 -> 12:00 PM) And if anyone believes his services would be a hot commodity if we let him go then pass me whatever it is you're smoking. And you know this how? Walker only wants to work for the White Sox. So many people think saying something to someone and throwing pixie dust into the air will make anyone a .330 hitter with 40 home run potential. Beckham is struggling right now. Its not uncommon in young players. Heyward is struggling. Morrision was sent to the minors under the guise he was struggling. BJ Upton has struggled. Delmon Young has been pretty bad. More struggle than do not. It sometimes takes a while. You can pick any hitting coach out there and someone is struggling under their "watch". Anyone who has ever played should know you can know exactly what you are doing wrong and exactly what needs to be done to correct it, but it still takes a while. You have to have it built in. If you go up to the plate thinking about 100 things, you are screwed. As for Beckham's swing. Let me get this straight, the Sox draft Beckham, he goes to the minor leagues and Walker calls up and tells him he needs to change his swing? Is that how this went? Please give me what you're smoking. As Ozzie said, the minor leagues are for instruction. In the majors is tweaks. If you have no idea how to hit when you get to the major leagues, again, you're screwed.

IMO if this is true its probably to do something like Cleveland does with its stadium in the winter now. Or maybe the sod committee wants to move some of the non Bears Soldier Field activity to another venue and USCF is being considered.

Do people really believe Greg Walker re-tools everyone's swing once they become White Sox? I will admit if he does he shouldn't be the hitting coach. If he has the abiility to make successful people who make millions doing things their way unsuccessful by listening to him, he has a far more important calling than that of a hitting coach. I really think the problem is the basic fan has Little League playing experience and thinks a major league hitting coach teaches a professional making 20 times the cabbage he's making how to hit.

Isn't Hendry basically KW except for Bartman?

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 19, 2011 -> 09:41 PM) Hawk about to lose it with regards to Rios There's nothing more insulting to the fanbase than trotting out a guy who only wants to trot everyday. Just let De Aza play and sit this guy down until you are out of it, and let Dunn sit next to him.

We can pull for Flowers to get a golden sombrero in the 9th.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Aug 19, 2011 -> 09:40 PM) They're just a boring team. The two most exciting players on the team are probably relievers. I agree. I've sold more tickets this year than ever before. Alexei getting kicked out was just stupid.

Hawk with a slight jab at the attendance. Personally, I think the Sox are getting what they deserve.

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 19, 2011 -> 09:29 PM) Sox were 5th in ERA I believe coming into this series. Anyone watching this year knows that it's been the offense which has prevented the Sox from winning more games. 4 teams make the playoffs. Considering the investment, 5th isn't good enough. He needs to go.