Dick Allen

If the White Sox sign Dunn, whether he likes it or not, he's going to DH a ton.

QUOTE (balfanman @ Dec 2, 2010 -> 08:47 AM) That's just it though. Other than maybe Danks, they are all a little risky, there is no where near a sure thing in the bunch. I can't see trading a starter simply based on the fact that we don't need him. Yes. And while there is reason to be somewhat optimistic about Sale, generally most pitchers with that little minor league experience will eventually suffer growing pains, and have to be bad before they are good.There's a pretty good chance he gets shallacked if they throw him to the wolves in the starting rotation.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 2, 2010 -> 08:27 AM) Clearly. If we go into next season with Linebrink and Pena as anything other than the 6th and 7th guys in the bullpen, we're going to be finding a way to trade for a reliever at the deadline. That said...Jenks was still part of the problem last season. A huge part. There's a decent chance Pena gets non tendered as well, although I suppose he can always return.

Maybe this will be some motivation for Jenks. I didn't know he and Ozzie were having problems. Hopefully Bobby doesn't try to start a pissing match when he signs with another team. He does need to remember the White Sox did him a lot of favors, and when he goes to rip Ozzie not many managers give a rookie the closing job when they are trying to win a WS. Ozzie did this guy some huge solids.

QUOTE (joeynach @ Dec 1, 2010 -> 03:38 PM) Konerko officially has his first offer on the table, its from the Orioles! http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/12/orio...a-contract.html I would put the chances of Paulie signing with Baltimore at about zero.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 1, 2010 -> 07:10 PM) Great sidebar, if anyone had actually excused the NCAA for anything. It has more to do with having your financial situation dependent on the same person who is negotiating your contract. And don't give me this crap about Boras being honest. He lies to people and teams all of the time. It is documented all over the place with mythical offers coming from one and the like. Hell he flat out lied to the White Sox about Magglio Ordonez not having had any surgery when they snuck Maggs off to Europe to get him operated on in secret. He's a crook. The idea that he would exploit kids for a few bucks makes perfect sense. My dad was a lawyer, an honest lawyer. He always taught me to tell the truth. The one exception was when you were negotiating. I agree that Boras isn't some clean, play by the books guy, and I really doubt his interest in "loaning" money to these poverty stricken foreign free agents, is just to help THEM out. He obviously expects something a little more than payback of the loan. But as far as negotiating, both sides lie all the time. You can't blame him for lying during those times.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 1, 2010 -> 01:57 PM) 73-71 against the AL. And considering the Sox get to play KC, and Cleveland and even Detroit 18 times every year, 73-71 looks even worse. There is absolutely no reason the White Sox shouldn't be dominating their division like the Yankees and Boston and the Angels and Philadelphia do almost every year. There's going to be times you don't make the playoffs, but the Sox should make the playoffs at least as much as the Twins have. They have a big advantage over 3 of the teams in their division and only one started spending any money. Just being average, and 2 playoff appearances in 10 seasons with KW as GM is slightly below average considering there is a wild card, should be unacceptable. We shouldn't celebrate 88 win 2nd place finishes. We shouldn't celebrate 90 win 3rd place finishes. We shouldn't call drafts that produce guys that make it to Chicago but don't contribute to winning successful.I think KW would agree.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 30, 2010 -> 11:49 AM) Really though, it's $20 million a year starting what, 3-4 years from now? Read the Neyer link. With some assumption of continuing revenue/salary growth, that's probably the equivalent of a $15 million a year contract today, which is still high, but the player is performing. But wouldn't he most likely accept the same extension a year or 2 from now? What if he gets injured or has a big slip in production next season? His September was awesome, but he was injured and not worth $20 million a year prior to that. I think this is very risky for the Rockies and it really doesn't appear like they are getting much of a discount.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 1, 2010 -> 01:19 PM) I guess I'll have to agree with you both NSS72 and TBolt. I'm sure the Thome situation sticks in the craw the most where we could have had him for so cheap and then we spend the money later like close to $10M on Jackson and Ramirez while giving up a pretty good pitcher we had under control for a while. That's the "debacle" part and the constraints supposedly now on the payroll. I really don't think anyone will be complaining about Jackson's contract once the 2011 season begins. Manny, OTOH, was a collossal waste of money. The chances of Manny actually helping win a division last September was about as slim as the chances SS2k5 agreeing with every one of my posts.

QUOTE (Rooftop Shots @ Dec 1, 2010 -> 09:20 AM) A quote from Putz in the Sun Times "Putz said while he would do what's best for his family, heading into a winning situation is a priority." Maybe I am reading this wrong, not sure, but could that be why he declined arb? I mean, if he really thought that we had a realistic chance to contend and win, he wouldn't hesitate to sign. What's best for him and his family is location and money, but yet winning is his priotity......................and he declines us. Let's look at it realistically from his standpont. Starting rotation .....better than average Bullpen...................Thorton the only one that is "proven" Lineup.........as it stands..........cannot hold a candle with any real powerhouse contender that has some serious pitching. Pierre......fine for getting on base and steals Beckham.............................question mark Quentin .............................question mark Catcher.(V Mart gone, not much else out there)............question mark Morel/Teahan platoon...............question marks Viciedo.................question mark (nice power, but will swing at anything that's in between both on deck circles. Alexei reliable shortstop, but like viciedo, will swing at anything within 7 yards of home plate Realistically......we have only a few reliables in the line up. Rios, Pierre. and then add a shaky bullpen to that. Unless we get lucky and Quentin and Beckham get their heads out their rear ends this year, KW pulls some rabbits out of his hat and gets us a proven catcher/hitter, left handed bat with power and good on base percentage, and Morel, Viciedo, Teahan have breakout years, really.................what chance do we have to really contend? We do not even come close to having a lineup that has a 1 through 9 (WOW) type threat As far as left handed bat, sure Dunn has power, but he's also a base clogger upper because he can't run, and he strikes out 8000 times per year. If I was Putz, and PK....................I would look at all of this and do the same as they did. I want to play for a winner NOW. Our lineup and bullpen have too many holes, and question marks. There is NO CONFIDENCE or assurance that we will be a PROVEN post season contending team next year. Add the fact that our farm is weak as well doesn't help much at all. I truely belive that a major shakeup is needed, and get some proven players (NOT PAST THEIR PRIME) with no question marks has to be added if we are going to make the players, and fans alike, to REALLY believe that we have a legitimate shot! If we had Detroits 50 mil to spend.........great. But we don't! And with them getting better with money to spend, and Minny getting Nathan. Morneau back along with their lineup that they already have, as we stand with our payroll where it's at, how can anyone see us being any higher than 3rd place? Could it be why VMart took Detroit instead of us? They have an upswing for winning, and money to spend .............................we don't! (And to the equation.................no more of these "past their prime....maybe we can imitate Lazarus, and bring a dead washed up has been back to life again" additions anymore") KW...........you got your work cut out for you if you are going to make "serious believers" in the league, central division rivals, our fanbase and any players that you would like to sign with us. Agree or Disagree.................there are some pretty valid points to all of this. If we are to be SERIOUS CONTENDERS, a few things need to be done. Not live in a pipe dream world, some serious trading, and/or some serious spending on REAL Life players needs to be done. If not, then a lot of other players will see us as going no where, and will turn us away along with the likes of PK, Putz, and VMart. If he accepted arb he would have either received a 1 year contract or would have limited his options for a multi year contract to one team, the White Sox. To maximize his dollars and years, he has to remain on the open market. Obviously interest is high, and he's sitting pretty. I hope he's back, but the Sox generally don't come out in first place if there's a bidding war. If the Sox plan on building their team with guys who are free agents, they are going to have to step up in the cash department. They can say play in Chicago, usually contending, all that stuff, but in the end, the thing that matters most with most of these guys is money.If JR isn't willing to bump up the payroll very much, its going to be tough for KW to put together a roster that people will initially be excited about IMO. BTW, I don't know how Rios is not a question mark but Quentin is. Quentin had a higher OPS in 2010, and Rios' second half was putrid.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Nov 30, 2010 -> 09:49 PM) The implication is that anyone in the big ten is vastly superior to anyone in the wac (hence why, despite actual statistical models proving otherwise, you keep saying how top big ten teams have such a tougher schedule to go through). And again, explain to me how illinois, minnesota, indiana, northwestern, purdue, etc are THAT much better than the WAC teams. GMAB. No one is claiming that the WAC is a better conference. The argument is that when a team plays 2-3 tough games against quality competition, and has a cupcake schedule the rest of the way, it's not THAT much different than a BCS type schedule. There's a huge difference. If Boise State made it through a Big Ten season unscathed, they would have every right to play for the national championship. Not with the schedule they play. Its a cupcake schedule. Virginia Tech was a good team they beat, on a neutral site. But Virginia Tech wasn't very good when they played them, in fact they lost to James Madison the next week. Oregon State was ranked 24th when they played them. A home game. Then they lose to the only other ranked team they played. Ohio State, Michigan State, Wisconsin, would roll Boise State and would all have been undefeated had they played the same schedule. A lot of teams would be. There's a big difference going into Iowa City than Las Cruces NM. NU isn't as bad as most think. When Persa was healthy, they had a good team. If Boise State plays poorly against ILL or NU or just about any Big 10 team, they would lose. Thats not the case with the WAC.

Its a no brainer for Paulie to say no.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Nov 30, 2010 -> 11:29 AM) Rate Kenny Williams’ 10 years of trades That was interesting looking at them all. He has had more great ones than horrible trades, but the majority really didn't do too much for anyone.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 29, 2010 -> 11:49 PM) I think it's time to move on. Let Bobby go. Putz, Thornton, Sergio and Sale will close by committee. Or should close by committee. That is, unless we have to trade Jackson or Mark B to free up some money to sign Dunn and Konerko. Then I'd start Sale. There will be blown saves next season but we do have four decent bodies to replace Jenks in Putz/Thornton/Sergio/Sale. There's really no reason to bring back Bobby. I think it's a no brainer they let him go. On paper, he is replaceable. If we do bring him back, however, I'll be wanting him to be the closer. They could bring him back if he'd take a paycut, but it would be silly to offer him arb. His performance has deteriorated as has his health is recent years. I really think this is a guy who could be one of the greats if he had the desire and discipline to do so, but he chooses to be a slob and its going to cost him a ton of money.

QUOTE (Big Daddy Kool @ Nov 30, 2010 -> 07:57 AM) http://twitter.com/TracyRingolsby/status/9456719818129408 Silly to talk about Rockies and Gavin Floyd. White Sox would only want Dexter Fowler and Ian Stewart. Obviously he was being sarcastic and thinks those 2 will be stars. Good for him. I wish we could see what kind of offers KW is receiving for Floyd if he is dangling him. He's getting Juan Uribe money the next 3 years. With pitching at a premium, you can't tell me KW couldn't get a more surefire package than Fowler and Stewart.

QUOTE (sircaffey @ Nov 30, 2010 -> 01:25 AM) Fowler was rated ahead of Gordon in various publications (i.e. BA) before they lost their prospect status in 2009. He's supremely talented. Let's not pick apart a player's splits after less than 2 years in the bigs at age 23 and 24. Kind of silly. Especially when that split you are using improved greatly from his rookie year to his second year (K rate away from home). Call it silly all you want, but his splits became more pronounced in 2010. His OPS wasn't even .600 in games not played in Coors Field. You don't trade Gavin Floyd for maybes. Jorge De La Rosa will make $11 million more than Floyd the next 3 seasons. Compare them.

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Nov 29, 2010 -> 11:06 PM) Looks like we aren't the only ones thinking Stewart/Fowler for Floyd. Apparently Kenny is as well: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/11/rockies-rumors.html Fowler's OPS is .221 better at Coors for his career. A strikeout machine and a 4th OF for a guy who makes hardly any coin. KW can do better than that, and I don't even like Gavin Floyd.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 29, 2010 -> 10:49 PM) Gloat away, Dick. I guess you should be the only guy who is happy to see him do well. For a guy who "has always loved Juan", I sure didn't see you posting anything positive when I was being ripped for defending him. If you loved him, wouldn't you have stuck up for him? I love Uribe, but that contract is not going to work out so well for the Dodgers. Teams are spending some money this year.

Will Scott Linebrink become this loved when he becomes an ex White Sox? Uribe was another guy who was pounded on this board. All of a sudden, the amount of people who always loved him has grown faster than the deficit.

QUOTE (Springfield SoxFan @ Nov 27, 2010 -> 07:27 PM) Rogers is really down on Mitchell in this report and I surmise that he believes his speed and potential will NEVER come back just because he struggled in the AFL, seems way to over critical at this point...... I don't know what the ultimate prognosis is, but if Mitchell has permanently lost a step or two, it is pretty huge. Phil has to quit crying about the Sox "cash grab" going to Las Vegas to play games and having Mitchell hurt in a game he probably wouldn't have played. He was injured playing baseball. That is what he is paid to do. Isn't the idea to get as much experience for young players as possible? Freak injuries happen. Hopefully Mitchell can overcome this. The AFL was a disaster for him, but he hadn't played at all for a while, so give him a break on that. If he's still slowed during spring training and during the season next year and isn't hitting, then its probably panic time.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 23, 2010 -> 12:06 PM) They aren't actually assessing a monetary value that, but instead using a monetary figure to help correlate performance on the field to how much it is worth given market conditions. They aren't suggesting that the Giants should have paid Bonds $37.8 million in 2004, but they are instead showing how good he was offensively using his WAR multiplied by the price teams pay for 1 win share. Bonds was a 12.2 WAR player in 2004 - meaning he was worth just over 12 wins all by himself - and teams paid $3.1 million per win share (price of win share, or pWS) in 2004; thus, Bonds' WAR*pWS = $37.8 mill. Mark Kotsay was a bad player, and I don't think it's really debatable that his presence on the team cost the Sox wins. Thus, he has a negative WAR. Taking his WAR*pWS = some negative number. He's not actually worth negative dollars, but instead it helps compare how bad he was. But even their monetary value is off. Its silly to say Jose Contreras' 10-17 5.52 ERA season is a 10.6 million performance fangraphs gave it in 2007, and his 2009 6-13 with a 4.92 ERA an 11 million dollar performance.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 27, 2010 -> 10:05 AM) Absolutely it does. It also probably creates more injuries and exposes your weaknesses more. But this loss to Nevada does not prove anything in regards to the argument you are making. What it does show is Boise State doesn't deserve to play for a championship and the president of Ohio State had a point. I have a hard time believing Boise State is ranked anywhere near the top 15 if they played a schedule that featured at least 8 or 9 games they actually could lose if they played poorly. They really only had 2 or 3 tests. Va Tech, but they caught them at the right time, as Va Tech lost to James Madison the following week. After that they hadn't played anyone ranked in the top 20 until yesterday. I understand their position. But if you really want to play for national titles you need to join a better conference.

I was reading NBA salaries. The Bulls are 26th in the NBA in salary this year, yet are at the cap. Their payroll is $56 million. The only teams lower are Sacremento, LA Clippers, Cleveland and Minnesota. It would be chaos if they ever installed a hard cap in the NBA.

I think Jeter's name alone would get him a bigger contract than the Yankees are offering him, but I don't think anyone really believes he would actually leave the Yankees, therefore will not get a legitimate offer.

Paulie is a great guy and has been a great player in a White Sox uniform. Comparing him to Jeter though is ridiculous. First off, 95% of this board wanted Paulie gone and wanted the Sox to pay at least part of his contract to do so before 2010. Secondly, the White Sox don't throw money around like the Yankees. I think giving Paulie a 3 year $45 million contract will eventually be regrettable. Giving Jeter $20 million a year and he stinks the place up wouldn't be much of a blow to the Yankees. They have made a lot of money because of him.If you go by the 2010 season alone, Paulie is probably more valuable, but like him or not, Jeter is a first ballot HOFer.