Dick Allen

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jun 9, 2009 -> 11:58 PM) Ozzie trys to marginalize Beckham again. "''You guys [the media] do a pretty good PR department for Beckham,'' Guillen said. ''I've been in Chicago for 17 years, playing and coaching. Has anybody been 0-for-whatever he is, he hasn't got booed yet? He hit a ground ball to second base and got a standing ovation from the fans [the other day]. Somebody hit a ground ball right at him, and he got another standing ovation. Good job, guys. Keep it up. I hope he sells a lot of shirts, but I need production.'' I'm starting to feel very uncomfortable with Ozzie managing the next generation of White Sox players. http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...soxnt10.article Someone should tell Ozzie they took his advice about Wise and instead of cheering Beckham for fielding a routine grounder and grounding out to second, the fans were cheering Ozzie for giving him the opportunity to do so. I think he'd really like that. There definitely is tension with the White Sox and not just the players but from Ozzie on up. I think Ozzie realizes the crap KW gave him this year ie Lillibridge, Fields and KW realizes how Ozzie missed on his talent evaluations ie Wise, so guys like Beckham are being called up without any consultation with the manager. Corky Miller getting released when Ozzie loved him. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. If Quentin comes back, I think they will be in it as the AL Central is pitiful, but if they fall out of it relatively quickly, I wouldn't be surprised to see a shocker or two. Has anyone noticed Hawk starting to take some indirect jabs at Ozzie? Just last night, he talked about the wheel play, something he ripped Manuel about disbanding after he was gone, saying the Sox never use it. He sort of ripped him for not going after Granderson and letting Polanco drive in runs. Ozzie didn't argue the play at the plate in the 9th. If the Sox ever do have a new manager that Hawk is in love with, he might mention Ozzie didn't even argue, something he ripped Manuel of before. Of course, after he was long gone.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 9, 2009 -> 07:05 PM) Mitchell is the best collegiate athlete in the draft. So it isn't a bad pick at all. If you prefered a pitcher or felt that a guy like Trout falls than I could see being upset, but bottom line, the Sox got a toolsy guy and I like that. Danks/Mitchell give the Sox two really toolsy minor league outfielders. Hopefully the Sox can grab a couple nice power arms now. If Phelgey is there they might even take him too and see if he can stick at catcher, but maybe not, since they already have one offensive catcher who might not be able to stick defensively. If Mitchell doesn't work out, KW Jr. is waiting in the wings. He's toolsy.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 9, 2009 -> 03:04 PM) Well as of today we have four of the players we drafted in the first round on the team right now. I wonder how many other teams can say that? Combined to hit .225 with 46 homers and 394 strikeouts in 1328 ab, and 0 innings pitched. I wonder how many other teams would want to say that.

Podsednik lf Ramirez ss Dye rf Thome dh Konerko 1b Pierzynski c Beckham 3b Nix 2b Anderson cf

3 games out at the end of July with a stacked Cleveland team constituted the White Flag Trade in 1997. 4.5 out on June 9 with a very mediocre Tiger team in first place and selling off parts would set this team back so far they wouldn't recover under this ownership. It isn't happening at least for a while.

QUOTE (spiderman @ Jun 9, 2009 -> 01:31 PM) You're framing my question though from the perspective that the proper thing to do is make trades to improve the current team. Unless we're going to gut the minor league system, for a chance to win a bad division, how long are you willing to give this team before you would agree that this team isn't going win? Dye, Thome, Contreras and Dotel have expiring contracts. The youth movement will start soon enough. Detroit is in first place. The Sox should have swept them yesterday as awful as they played the first game. There is no reason to give up on this season. The division is woefully weak. If Quentin can get healthy, and maybe an astute addition or two, there's no reason to think they can't win it. Teams don't give up top prospects for 3 months of play anymore, unless you are a guaranteed difference maker, and the Sox aren't loaded with those. If it looked like a couple of teams in the division were really stacked, I could understand the Sox going under some sort of re-build, but this division is and will be terrible unless teams add players. There is no team in better position to add better players the next couple years than the White Sox.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jun 9, 2009 -> 01:27 PM) Maybe the Brewers would take Jose if it allowed them to dump Bill Hall in the process. I wouldn't touch that one though. The only deal I can see for Contreras is a deal that brings us another large salary in the process. A deal between two teams who each have a player they view as immovable sunk costs with the difference in ability being made up in prospects I could see as possible. Contreras IIRC passed successfully through waivers 3 straight years in a row (2006-2009) and two of those years were in better economic climates. Its better off seeing if he can help the Sox win and letting his contract expire at the end of the year. Maybe if he's hot and the Sox suck, some team may pick him up for the September drive but other than that, I don't see any team touching him based on one start, and no one is going to want Colon the way he's been throwing lately.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 9, 2009 -> 12:51 PM) I think the Sox are going to try and trade Colon and/or Count if they can. They can't. No one is going to want Colon and Contreras could have been had for nothing a month ago.

QUOTE (ChiSox420* @ Jun 9, 2009 -> 12:48 PM) Per Cowley - Poreda will begin in the pen and then moved into the rotation That's pretty much what most thought until Cowley said Poreda would start against Milwaukee and Colon would be DL'd or released. He really is a moron. BY JOE COWLEY Staff Reporter The youth movement continues on the South Side, as a source close to the situation confirmed that left-hander Aaron Poreda is going to be added to the 25-man roster today, likely taking Bartolo Colon's spot in the starting rotation. Manager Ozzie Guillen said Monday that he and general manager Ken Williams had a lengthy meeting before the first game of the doubleheader with Detroit to discuss different scenarios, and with the Jake Peavy deal falling flat, as well as Colon's struggles ­ possibly health-related, Guillen hinted ­ they felt they had no choice but to go with their best prospect in Poreda. The paper trail on the Freddy Garcia signing also then makes sense, as the club feels that if Poreda or a Clayton Richard falls on their face, Garcia can come in and give them the same workload as Colon did. The other decision that has to be made will be what to do with Jose Contreras after his lights-out performance Monday night. In all likelihood, he could take Richard's spot, putting the southpaw back in the bullpen as a safety net if Poreda struggles. But make no mistake, the youth movement is on ‹ whether it¹s admitted or not.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jun 9, 2009 -> 12:04 PM) Firesale my arse. KW always wants to content. Crap record means crap attendance. The dead weight will be gone soon. That's about it. Because the division is bad the Sox have a little room to experiment with the youth. If it pans out great we have a better chance to win the division. If it doesn't then we're no worse off than we are right now. He's certainly not going to pull the plug now.

QUOTE (spiderman @ Jun 9, 2009 -> 11:57 AM) I realize that we're only 4 games out, but at what point does Kenny Williams, if ever, come to the conclusion that this team isn't that good, despite the rest of the division being very bad? In other words, if the goal is to win a championship, and this team, while it may hang around and give false hope, isn't going to win one much less get over .500, why not trade Jermaine Dye to a team that can use a hitter? Why would a team desperate for hitters trade its hitters? Unless you want to set the franchise back to the days after the strike, you better try to win.

QUOTE (kyyle23 @ Jun 9, 2009 -> 10:37 AM) No it isnt obvious. Im not saying they could be traded in a 1 for 1 deal(that would actually help the Sox), but either of those two could go in a larger deal and add rotation depth to another team. Teams like the Brewers are always looking for arms Colon isn't going to add to a deal, neither will Contreras. Teams wouldn't take Contreras for nothing, and aren't going to throw Colon in their rotation for nothing either.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jun 9, 2009 -> 10:45 AM) Firesale of who? These guys I'd put on the bubble right now: Count, Colon, Betemit has already been DFA'd, Gobble, Fields, Getz, maybe Nix but I think he's our UT player Count is the only one who is expensive and we can't move his contract without taking on another bad contract. The other players make very little if not the minimum. Moving any or all of those guys wouldn't constitute a firesale IMO. If we're going to run off a firesale then I'd expect to be hearing about Thome, JD, PK, Linebrink, maybe Jenks, Dotel, but who can take on those contracts? I guess I just don't see it. I see activity, and lots of it, but shedding major contracts of players who are coming off the books anyway doesn't seem to make a ton of sense when there's no one to replace them with. Exactly. No one is going to want to take on the huge contracts the Sox would like to rid themselves of, and if you are packing it in, it really makes no sense to trade guys like Getz who probably have little value. You might as well see if he can make something of himself. Firesales, picking up huge pieces at or near the deadline, have been rumored for years. But KW hasn't made too huge of a splash since Garcia in 2004. Griffey was a big name but not much of a player.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 9, 2009 -> 10:38 AM) How has AP's offspeed stuff looked to people this season so far? We've heard repeatedly that getting better feel of his change and slider were all that was standing between him and being a really solid guy, given the speed and movement on his fastball. Is he actually ready? No one appears to be hitting him in AA, but he does walk a few. I think he's not going to be cruising that second time through the line-up at the major league level. Just let him relieve and fire the fastball. When and if you pull the plug, stretch him back out.

That's shocking to me if true. I know Poreda is a nice prospect, but I think throwing him the rotation at this point isn't going to net better results than Colon or Richard. Plus KW has always said he likes young pitchers to get their feet wet coming out of the bullpen.

QUOTE (kyyle23 @ Jun 9, 2009 -> 10:16 AM) The Sox have extra starters. Colon may not be great, Contreras may not be great, Richard could be good, Poreda could be good, and there are plenty of teams out there with NEEDS You aren't going to get anything for Colon or Contreras, that's obvious. Poreda I can't see in the rotation. Richard obviously is available as he was traded before, but I really don't know if he has much value all by himself

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 9, 2009 -> 10:13 AM) We're missing the biggest issue here: how will Josh Fields feel about this? I guessing akward. Poreda is young and maybe a little vulgar and immature in the clubhouse. Maybe Josh will just retire.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jun 9, 2009 -> 10:05 AM) I'm guessing Poreda called up, Richard back to the pen as the long reliever/spot starter. Colon is released. Leaving the rotation the rest of the year: Buerhle, Floyd, Danks, Contreras, Poreda Isn't that what most of us predicted to start the year back in the winter? Look at Poredas #'s this year: Poreda 2009 stats He is more than ready to go. . AA vs the major leagues. Its no lock he's "ready to go". He has had control issues. In the big leagues that tends to bite you. I don't think they would put him in the rotation.

QUOTE (watchtower41 @ Jun 9, 2009 -> 10:04 AM) God, I can't stand Cowley. What a clowndick. Someone better call Joe and tell him Poreda is confirming he's being called up on the radio. He is a hack.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 9, 2009 -> 10:03 AM) apparently 3-4 of them were advanced scouts, but included in the mix were the Phillies and Cubs per Bruce Levine. The Cubs and Sox play in a week so I don't know if there's a trade to be made there. Phillies are interesting. I wonder if Dotel is someone being dangled. Thornton has been lights out. Maybe give him the 7th or 8th even with Linebrink getting the other, and have Poreda come in depending on match-ups.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jun 9, 2009 -> 09:55 AM) . And honestly, I value Getz over Fields because at least Getz can play subpar defense I've never been a fan of Fields, but give him a little credit. He definitely can play subpar defense.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Jun 9, 2009 -> 09:44 AM) If you were able to get the best deal for him out of any of their players though talent wise in return, I'm sure they would at least consider it. And who knows, maybe if they keep playing as they have been, Haren might ask for a move. You would have to overpay for one of the best pitchers in baseball, and since it would be cost cutting you couldn't give them any money back. That means cleaning out the farm system. Probably at least your top 4 prospects, maybe more, and then it probably wouldn't get done. He's not available. Just because you are out of it doesn't mean you trade all your huge building blocks for prospects. You will never win that way. They traded a bunch to get Haren and signed him long-term, they will build around him, not trade him for some question marks.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Jun 9, 2009 -> 09:37 AM) Because? Arizona isn't exactly setting the world on fire at the moment. They're last in the AL West and with the Dodgers playing well they don't have much of a chance to contend this season. Josh Byrnes could decide to reload, and they've got quite a few early picks in this season's draft IIRC. Not saying it's going to happen, but you just can't rule it out and say it's definitely not. Look at Haren's contract. Its very reasonable and he's an ace. You don't "reload" by trading your reasonably signed young ace.

The White Sox could be trading a reliever. Everyone needs them and teams will overpay. Hawk and Stone were talking about it the other day saying teams would have to pay double to get a good reliever. Maybe they were hinting at something.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Jun 9, 2009 -> 09:24 AM) Interesting timing to say the least. I'd expect something to happen with Colon or even Clayton Richard if we're talking about acquiring a Dan Haren type of pitcher here. Chris Young has an OPS of .547 right now also. You'd certainly be buying low on him that's for sure. There is no way the Sox get Dan Haren. Let's just put that one to rest.