Dick Allen

QUOTE (MHizzle85 @ Jun 20, 2009 -> 06:07 PM) All I get is an error. Seems pretty appropriate tonight.

QUOTE (The Critic @ Jun 20, 2009 -> 08:02 AM) I'm going to go out on a limb and assume he has an attorney of some sort. If he didn't authorize his attorney to run a real background check on Hernandez, that's his own damn fault. And yeah, that goes for anyone else who was risking their future on this guy. I understand that it's easy to get snowed by a smooth-talking guy who's flaunting his wealth, but for your own sake you've got to be suspicious enough to try to protect yourself. If I'm North, I'm completely embarrassed that some guy online paid 4 bucks to discover "his guy" was a fraud. As I've stated before, in my line of business, I have background and credit checks done on people everyday. We've been lucky we haven't been burned, but its amazing how many of these checks come back clean or very close to it, but later we find out its a very different story. The White Sox did business with Hernandez as did Comcast Sportsnet. A lot of people did. To single out North isn't fair, and I'm not a North apologist.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Jun 19, 2009 -> 09:28 PM) Where did I say everyone else isn't accountable? Is North a victim? Absolutely. However, he was the spear head behind Webio, Hernandez was his financier. North was the one involved with Hernandez this whole time, and during the recruiting process, sold guys like Weber, Hood, ect on Hernandez. Now, when you realize stuff looked too good to be true, should someone have stepped up and started peaking around? Probably, and thats something I'm sure they look back on and regret. My point is North brought all these parties into the fold and irresponsibly sold Hernandez to everyone after a google background check. http://score670.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=...595&start=0 Check out this thread from the radio message boards. So this guy spent $3.95 AFTER he knew Hernandez was a crook. Do you go to the Tribune archives everytime you have a new business venture or are considering a job change? I doubt it, and my point earlier was when Webio's business model was questioned, and everyone was wondering about all the money they were tossing out, even Tribune reporters who I'm sure wouldn't have to shell out $3.95, didn't have this story, why didn't these stories come out then? Its easy to blame North because he's not a very likeable guy. I would bet if it were someone more people respected, they would get sympathy, not blame. There are even a lot of people who think North is in on the scam. That's ridiculous. For all we know, the information Hernandez provided North about himself didn't include employment at the bank in question. David Hernandez appears to be a pretty common name. A google search using David Hernandez banking gives you 1,440,000 results. Obviously a google search is pretty inefficient if you have any inkling of earlier troubles. But really, what many Monday morning QBs consider standard, they themselves have never done, at least anymore than an obligatory google search. I palled around with a guy at my health club, spotting each other on the equipment, pushing each other on the machines. I went out for beers with him a few times after working out, you know putting the calories you just burned off right back in. (I'm married, so don't think there was more to this than I let on) One day I'm watching the news and they had this thing about sex offenders and you could go to their website and they have a link to see sex offenders in your area. I don't have kids so although I have been aware there are such lists, I've never looked at them. Well, for some reason I linked it up. They had a map with little dots where the offenders were located. You click on the dots and the offenders' name and photo and arrest info pop up. The first one I click on is my "buddy" at the club. I considered him a friend. I introduced him to my wife at the club. We probably would have all done something together eventually. If I had kids and never looked at that site, I probably would have exposed them to him and that's far worse IMO than losing your job because a guy is a phony. Am I a fool for not doing a search on him? If I did, is it a guarantee I would have found something? If anything, and I feel for all webio employees including North, they are guilty of not living by the "if something seems too good to be true, it probably is" rule. You can't blame them for falling for it. The checks didn't bounce for a while. Everything was set up. I know I would have most likely fallen for it. The radio business seems to be dying as well. All the big money guys are taking paycuts. Hernandez tripled their salaries. It was the perfect storm.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Jun 20, 2009 -> 05:54 AM) I sure as hell have many times! Easy to claim. If you have, good for you, but you still would be in the minority. Most of the people ripping North for doing business with this guy would have done exactly the same thing if they were in his shoes.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Jun 19, 2009 -> 09:00 PM) Sorry, that doesn't work for me. North staked his entire reputation over a guy he had no knowledge of, and signed on with a guy he did a "google background check on". He involved his closest friends in the operation, and assured them it was a fantastic opportunity(this has been confirmed by a few parties involved). You can defend North all you want, but when guys on message boards spend $3.95 to go back to the Tribune archive and find articles on Hernandez being a felon from 1999 and 2003, it's COMPLETELY irresponsible on the part of North. Thats why you have a lawyer. Spend a few hundred dollars on a background check before you sign a multi million dollar partnership with him, especially if you couldn't pick the guy out of a lineup a week before you signed on with him. There was public information about David Hernandez that was easily accessible, and North and BeBe didn't find it. It's not even about it being Mike North. I would be saying this if it happened to anyone in this situation. There just is no way to defend the guy after he was this irresponsible in signing with Hernandez. This I agree with. I know a few of them personally, and it's just terrible for guys like Hood and Chet, who really have no place else to go. So North is the moron for doing business with Hernandez, but the others aren't idiots for doing business with Hernandez because North gave the OK? I'm sorry I don't buy it. If you liked Mike North, I think you and everyone else who is giving him a hard time, would have a totally different take. North lost money as well. I think I'm shocked that no media member or organization was able to expose Hernandez either until it was too late for the innocent. Considering all the questions webio's business model raised from day 1 , you would think someone with access to more information than even Mike North could have at least come up with the fact that this guy did time. If the Tribune had stories on him, how come none of their writers or reporters ever mentioned the information? I'm my line of work, I have background checks on people daily. We pay a service to do them. They don't get everything, and sometimes they get nothing. I'm in the minority as I think, even though I don't particularly care for him, Mike North is a victim. In fact, North may have indirectly been responsible for Hernandez getting caught doing bad things again. Webio wasn't his only crime.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Jun 19, 2009 -> 08:30 PM) Not a Shaer fan but, Chet and North both did a pathectic job of business sense 101 before signing papers with the idiot on the lamb! I'm sure you've done extensive background checks with everyone you have done business with as well. I understand people don't like North and are probably giddy this sort of thing happened to him and are playing Monday morning QB saying he should have known. Its not so easy. The Tribune had the story on his sentence back in the day. Hernandez has been in the spotlight for several months, and the stories have been out there how the employees were getting triple what they were where they came from. Many questioned the viability of such a business model, yet no one knew anything about Hernandez until it was way too late. North looks like a fool, but I don't think he had malicious intent. The old addage if its seems its too good to be true, it probably is plays out here, but I have a hard time blaming North or anyone else who signed on. They just did what probably everyone here, even the ones who slammed him, would have done. Even if you don't like any of the webio guys, you should feel sorry for their families. All these guys were victims of a criminal.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jun 19, 2009 -> 11:01 AM) Yes, because two young starting pitchers going through a bad spell, definitely are a great comparison to an aging relief pitcher showing signs of decline. Linebrink's bad spell has been about 7 innings. You are going to have bad outings. Obviously several in a row is troublesome, but Linebrink isn't going anywhere. We better hope he gets it together quickly.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jun 18, 2009 -> 10:09 PM) You'd be surprised at the number of people who've given up on him. It's not out of the question to buy low for a guy who dominates the minors, but can't get over the major league hump. It’s eerily similar to the Gavin Floyd situation. Considering they wouldn't trade him for Jermaine Dye, I don't think he's available to buy at a discount.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jun 18, 2009 -> 10:05 PM) I’d like to clear room for guys like Brandon Allen, and buy young, underrated talent. Guys like Brandon Wood and Homer Bailey. I want KW to take risks, I want to get younger, I want to experience the glory of Danks, Floyd and Quentin all over again. I recognize guys like Freddy Sanchez and Chone Figgins as talents, but I’m not interested in either of them. We need to look towards the future, the future is now. Homer Bailey underrated? Here's his BA rankings: Prospect Rankings* 2005 - #48 ranked MLB 2005 - #1 ranked for CIN 2006 - #38 ranked MLB 2006 - #1 ranked for CIN 2007 - #5 ranked MLB 2007 - #1 ranked for CIN 2008 - #9 ranked MLB 2008 - #2 ranked for CIN If anything, considering his major league performance, he's overrated if you ask me.

Maggs is getting benched. He hasn't hit for power and he's in the same boat Frank Thomas was in with the Blue Jays last year. A huge option becomes vested if he gets enought plate appearances. Personally, I think its good for the Sox. Maggs would eventually start mashing.

Johan Santana was a bullpen guy. I don't think Poreda's secondary pitches are polished enough to get major league line-ups out multiple times. Let him get his feet wet and some confidence by picking his spots. Ideally you'd like to see him more than he's pitched, but even though I don't always agree with Ozzie, I think he's doing the right thing.

A big play in that game was Beckham's HBP. He obviously had his hitting shoes on today, and for all I know he may not have received anything to hit the time he did get hit, but Floyd was probably going to be retired. Beckham was the shot at scoring that inning. He seemed to convince the umpire he was hit. I would have like to see him take a couple of cuts.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 18, 2009 -> 06:55 PM) If true than your right. I still think what rosenthal is saying is that no one that can afford Dye is also willing to give up the type of prospect(s) it would take to make the Sox willing to move him. He made it sound like if some team were able to scrap up the money, no legit prospect would also be a part of a package. He could be wrong, but I really thing financial restraint is going to occur this deadline, although the Tigers surprisingly are now said to be willing to take on money. Illich is willing to take a bath to get a shot.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Jun 18, 2009 -> 06:46 PM) I don't agree. They could have had him for nothing a month ago. If he's lights out, the White Sox are trying to win, they will keep him. If he struggles, no one is picking up his contract. Rosenthal had an article last week that no one could afford Dye. They aren't going to go for Contreras unless the money is even and if that's the case, I really don't know what the benefit of trading him really is. We see the upside the last two starts.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Jun 18, 2009 -> 06:45 PM) At this point during the season, wouldn't another team have to pay like 5 million? And they aren't going to pay it.

QUOTE (qwerty @ Jun 18, 2009 -> 05:33 PM) One day you just may realize you are not funny. I would wager against it. Probably not. Thanks for your imput.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jun 18, 2009 -> 06:09 PM) You're quite possibly right, fathom. Tomorrow night's performance by Jose may be rather large in the scheme of things. At least a few GM's will be watching Jose closely. If he has another great performance, his trade value escalates further, but if KW is convinced we now have four solid starters, he'll look at Det/Minn and say "hell no, we're not packing it in". Whether, we agree with him or not, I think that's his nature. If the Titan reverts to mediocrity, it might be a missed opportunity, but I'd guess that most GM's are waiting to see one or two more performances first. Jose can throw a no hitter in each of his next 2 starts. If the Sox don't pick up most of the money left on his contract, he's not tradeable unless the Sox take back a big contract.

I'm blaming Greg Walker for Linebrink being lit up.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jun 17, 2009 -> 09:02 PM) In Dye's earlier years, he battled a lot of injuries and teams eventually gave up on him, we came in, signed him cheap, and got one of the best FA signings in the past 10 years, I'd say. 1999,2000,2001 Dye played more games each season than he ever has in a season with the White Sox. The Braves traded him in a deal of prospects. The Royals traded him because of money. He fouled a pitch off his leg in Oakland and broke his leg. I think it was a playoff game. It affected him horribly. He was getting his act together a little bit with Oakland, started off very slowly with the Sox but took off. I wouldn't say he was injury prone, it was one real big one and a freakish one at that.

QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Jun 17, 2009 -> 01:43 PM) Also, there's a million ways we could break this down statistically that would be unfavorable to the sox. Teams that were 30-34 or worse after 64 games that won the world series? Teams that even won more than 90 games after being 30-34 after 64 games? Do you see this team going 60-38 down the stretch? Or even 15 over? Why? And measuring things statistical is what we do in baseball, which is why my analogy is completely relevant - because whatever percentage probability we assign to the White Sox can be assigned to an analogous game situation. Whatever longshot pie-in-the-sky hopes you may have - if they don't stack up statistically, why on earth would we make dumb roster decisions because of them? Which stat do you want to go to next? How about the fact they are in a bad division and are 3.5 games out and Detroit is losing and there are 97 games left? Making the playoffs even if they do go down quickly, and that would still have to be determined, has huge benefits to the team. Extra gates may bring a better ballplayer to the team next year. Once again, it makes no sense to sit Quentin out if he wants to give it a shot. Worst case scenerio he has to have surgery. Well, he may have surgery anyway after the season and will be ready to go next year. I don't see how he is a dumb roster decision. Not trying to win a very winnable division would set this team back with their fanbase dramatically. Maybe not with you because apparently in your world there probably are only 3 or 4 teams that should try to win every season because statistically the odds are against the others. 1 out of 14 is a lot better than zero.

QUOTE (jenks45monster @ Jun 17, 2009 -> 11:00 AM) Am I the only one who thinks we should have traded Q last offseason when we could have pulled in a s***load for him? Let's face it, the guys an absolute monster when he's healthy, but he's has never been able to stay healthy. Teams that trade their best players usually don't win much.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jun 17, 2009 -> 10:51 AM) The problem is there is nothing that strength and condition could do to prevent the injuries he had. The torn labrum, the fractured wrist and the plantar fasciitis are not conditioning or weakness related injuries. That is the frustrating part. He is like Jim McMahon was for the Bears the elbow injury, the kidney laceration was nothing you could prevent. I'm sure this is what KW meant. Hard work and off season condition etc. would not have prevented any of CQ's injuries. I'm not implying they were. But, due to his propencity for getting injured, they are going to have to be sure he's always stretched, conditioned, etc. because he seems like a guy if even a day or two went by where it was a little lax, he probably would find the DL. At Quentin's age, some guys can get out of bed and play baseball. Others, even if they are in apparently terrific physical condition, which Quentin appears to be, need to go through a long routine to be ready. He seems to be long routine guy.

For everyone saying shut him down, the season is over, the Sox are 4 games out. Maybe there is a 0.01% chance they win it all if they make the playoffs, but why wouldn't shutting him down now instead of trying still win be the exact same thing if not worse than the White Flag Trade, when the team was 3.5 out with a lot fewer games to play and a much better team in front of them than there is right now? I think the Indians of 1997 would easily win 115 games in the current division considering the unbalanced schedule. As for Quentin, I heard an interview with KW who basically said Quentin is not injury prone its more just freak things. Well, he was hurt in college. Was hurt with the D-Backs, did get hurt last year, and hurt again this year. They all aren't related at all, which I believe was KW's point, but it seems to me some guys are injury-prone and he seems to be one of them. The thing that concerns me is all the times he is HBP. All it takes is one to knock him out a long time. I really wish he would wear some armour. Obviously, if he can remain healthy for long stretches he's one of the best hitters in baseball. I think the strength and conditioning guys and Herm and his minions have their work cut out for them with Carlos. He's too valuable to have spend too much time off the field.

He might as well try to play. If he has the surgery now, he's out the rest of the season. If he has the surgery when the season is over, he's still ready for spring training. It makes no sense to have it now. According to people who talked to him yesterday, he thinks he will be ready to play in about a week and a half.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Jun 16, 2009 -> 03:51 PM) It shows you how dumb North really is. On top of that, he really screwed a lot of people with this venture. If you want a sad read, check out the blog post Matt Weber, one of the hosts at CSWebio, posted last night. Little long, but an interesting read... http://webbyfiles.blogspot.com/ I work in the financial industry and need to have checks done everyday. We pay services to do checks on people and things get missed all the time. A google search is probably a little lame. Its really a little harsh to blame North for everyone else. They had the same opportunity to do background checks on Hernandez. If you think North is stupid for letting this guy's past slip by him, you should think the same of everyone else.