Dick Allen

QUOTE (kyyle23 @ Mar 24, 2009 -> 02:08 PM) I think it was his foot, he heard a pop or something and everyone freaked out. I dont even think he missed his next ST start I think that was in 2005.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Mar 24, 2009 -> 12:33 PM) I was actually thinking about Alexei even though he swings early, I like that he doesn strike out ad often can make the pitcher throw alot of pitches. He also brings the threat of a leadoff HR. He's a bigger threat than the 3 being discussed, that's for sure. I don't know why the Sox would even consider a mediocre at best hitter at the top of the line-up. Its wrong in so many ways. If Juan Pierre even crosses KW's mind, which I'm sure he won't, Ramirez should be given a shot. Same low OBP maybe not the SB, but can do a lot more damage.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Mar 24, 2009 -> 12:32 PM) Tossed to the wolves?? I think not. He had the low-pressure 9-hole slot on a team with plenty of offense elsewhere. He stunk it up at the plate, plain and simple. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for giving him another shot, but let's not be revisionist on his 2006. Ozzie said in 2006 he didn't care what Anderson hit, he was only concerned with his defense. He was playing great defense and not hitting, when that extended through June, and everyone but Dye stopped hitting and offense from CF was needed, BA rode pine. Its not easy coming up with a world champion taking one its most popular players' place, and BA was a bit immature anyway.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Mar 24, 2009 -> 12:27 PM) We don't have anybody like that anymore though, the closest thing we had was Swisher when he wasn't hitting .189 for the month. Quentin could leadoff, especially if Konerko could get back to hitting 40 homers a year, but he's very valuable in the 3 hole.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 24, 2009 -> 12:25 PM) Sure, and you should arrange your lineup accordingly. I'm saying, don't take the qualities you think make a leadoff hitter (which should be OBP at the least, but speed is big for these guys apparently), and limit yourself that way. Its artificially narrowing your choices. Go out and get the best overall guys at all positions, then arrange your lineup with high OBP guys (ideally with some speed) at the front, big boppers in the middle, the rest in the back. I just think that this search for a leadoff guy who happens to play CF is logically backwards and likely to get bad results. I agree, but the Sox apparently put all their eggs in the Wise/Owens basket thinking they were the answer and everyone else is wrong. Getz could leadoff, and with BA playing, probably should, but its not ideal. Although I'm a big BA fan, I know he's not a leadoff guy and know he's on the short leash. I think if Getz plays well and Beckham is ready in a month or 2, Ramirez has to go to CF.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 24, 2009 -> 11:58 AM) It amazes me how much the leadoff thing has been overblown as an issue. This player will hit first once a game, and after that its all random. And if you dictate your roster by hitting slot, you artificially limit your ability to get the best players all over the field. Put together a roster of the best talent you can get, then order your lineup. The problem is not leadoff - its the actual position on the field, which they call CENTER FIELD. The guy who anchors the outfield, and who hits 3 or 4 or 5 times a game. Just put in the best overall guy, then put together your order. I want the guy guaranteed to come up to the plate the most, to be a guy who can get on base at a high clip and get himself in scoring position for the power. A leadoff hitter is very important for those 2 reasons, at the very least.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Mar 23, 2009 -> 11:31 PM) How about one of the 10 worst players with at least 400 at bats (not sure how many he had exactly. But I know he had at least that many)? If you can find 10 players worse, I'll give you your props. And I wasn't trying to subtract his best month. Just pointing out, and the numbers obviously prove that it was that month, and only that month, that he didn't look like the 2k version of Dan Pasqua. I agree with you, it may be cherry picking but except for June, so 5 months, the guy didn't hit .200, and he wasn't a CF.

QUOTE (Stocking @ Mar 23, 2009 -> 05:53 PM) Hey Dick, maggs played 6.5 years on the southside. Maddux played 6.5 For the Cubs before he left. Very similair senerios if Maggs were to come back for 1.5 more. If Maggs won an MVP with the White Sox, left, was the best player in baseball for 10 years or so, came back and had a couple of productive years and was a lock to be a first ballot HOFer, yes, I think 30 would be retired. Its nowhere near the same.

QUOTE (Stocking @ Mar 23, 2009 -> 04:59 PM) Mark blows out his arm and wins ten more games. No, i would not be in favor of retiring his number. I agree with Texsox that he needs a few more quality years as a whitesox. Harold didnt go on to play to play tens more years, hall of fame years at that, on one single team as Maddux did with the Braves. So if Carlos Lee goes on to hit 500+hrs and sox bring him back for one and a half years at the end of his career, we should reitire his number. How about Magglio. To each their own i guess. Greg Maddux was probably the best pitcher of his generation. He spent 9 years with the Cubs. He won a Cy Young with the Cubs. They are retiring his number. Your other scenerios do not compare. Get over it.

Since 2003, Corky has a .122 BA in the major leagues. Lucy even with 1 kneecap is probably a better option.

I think we all can agree, none of the 3 should be leading off the first inning.

Here's another thought, does anyone really question Carlton Fisk having his number retired? His average season in a White Sox uniform: 16 hr 58 rbi .257 avg. .329 obp AJP's average season 15 hr 57 rbi .274 avg. .316 obp Fisk's number absolutely s/b retired,even though he only caught over 100 games in a season 6 times for the White Sox. AJ's will never be. What you do elsewhere matters. I also think it shows AJP is not appreciated enough by a lot of people.

QUOTE (Texsox @ Mar 23, 2009 -> 09:45 AM) And I think Kong is a marginal at this moment. Think about this, Konerko has more homers as a White Sox, a higher OBP, a higher slugging pct. than Harold Baines as a White Sox, was an ALCS MVP and a WS hero and he's marginal getting his # retired. Baines even accumulated more stats AFTER his number was retired. There obviously is no criteria for getting the number retired. Its more than just stats. I think coming up through the organization, like Baines did with the Sox and Maddux did with the Cubs should mean something in the decision, even if a lot of career totals were accumulated elsewhere. Its not like Maddux was a Cub for 2 or 3 years.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 23, 2009 -> 09:02 AM) Yeah, I keep seeing Sox beat writers talk about certain things being certain, and then followed by quotes from Ozzie or KW that make it seem far from certain. I am therefore skeptical of it. But I didn't hear anything on the radio or from KW as a quote, so if he said it, then there it is. From MLB.com Apparently, that meeting of the minds did not extend to Danks and Quentin. Williams explained Sunday that the same offer given to Floyd was put on the table for Danks, but the interest wasn't returned in what the White Sox were talking about. "At this point, as I explained to the players, 'No harm, no foul,'" said Williams, prior to Sunday's Cactus League game against Oakland. "I explained to the players that we wanted to do something in the spirit of building that next core. "Also, as I explained to each individual player, once you have as many players under contract I believe as possible, you can begin the process of trying to win baseball games, vs. having guys that are worried so much about their statistics, individual statistics. You get to a level of play that I believe is more unselfish."

QUOTE (Melissa1334 @ Mar 23, 2009 -> 08:45 AM) cowley said right now on monsters in the morning that he likes wise over owens bcuz that when it was crunch time and the games really matterd, he stepped up. really? i dont recall seeing that in sept and the last week lol Cowley must have been drunk when Wise finished the season 5-39. Its really amazing an idiot like him is a beat writer for a major newspaper in a large town. He's really a joke.

QUOTE (Stocking @ Mar 22, 2009 -> 09:59 PM) There is no doubt that Maddux should have his number retired, but not by the cubs. Look at it this way; if Maddux played those ten season, as he did with the Braves, for the southside would the cubs retire his number. What if those seasons were with the Cards, I dont think there is a chance in hell they would. He had all of five winning seasons with the Cubs. That's ridiculous. If Mark Buerhle blows out his arm this year and wins 10 games, you wouldn't think its justified his 56 be retired if JR chose to do it? What about Harold Baines. His number was retired and he played 10 more years. He had only 2 full seasons with an OBP of .350 or higher at that point with the White Sox and had hit about 200 homers. Any team that wants to retire any number for any reason is justified IMO. The Miami Heat retired 23 in honor of Michael Jordan. He never played for them (but did make them some money).

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Mar 23, 2009 -> 07:01 AM) His lack of velocity frightens me a bit, considering who he is. 87 just seems WAY slow for Colon, considering he could hit low 90's without trying just a few years ago, and mid 90's while barely trying. Granted, he does get stronger the more he pitches, but I'm hoping he can consistently hit 92 by the time the season starts. He was up to 95 last year. He had chips taken out of his elbow. I would imagine he would be between 92-95 eventually.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Mar 22, 2009 -> 10:12 PM) From what I have seen this spring, I'd gladly take Corky Miller over Toby Hall... I'm not saying Corky would be my first choice, but I think he is a lot better defensively and a whole lot more competent at plate. He is better defensively than Hall (but then again, so probably am I), but offensively he his horrible. He is a career .176 hitter with a 1-55 stretch from 2004-2006. He's had hits this spring, but they don't count. When the bell rings, if he really is the back-up, AJP is going to be one tired player. Many of his "off" days will see him get some action as Miller, basically a pitcher at the plate, will have to be hit for. You have to take spring training results with a grain of salt. Especially offensive ones. Pitchers aren't up to speed, and many AB are against guys who will be nowhere near the major leagues when the games count. Finally, its not like he's a young guy who may figure things out. He's 33.

QUOTE (BigEdWalsh @ Mar 22, 2009 -> 08:23 PM) I guess you're not old enough to remember Chuck Brinkman. Corky has outhit Brinkman .176 to .172. They are basically the same. KW did the near impossible, he downgraded from a torn labrumed Toby Hall.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Mar 22, 2009 -> 05:28 PM) I have no problem with it now sign Danks. They offered him the same deal and he passed.

QUOTE (chunk23 @ Mar 22, 2009 -> 05:35 PM) Well, people will soon realize he's taking so many pitches because he's running injured and swings a very weak bat. It won't last. There were a lot of people on this board who say he has absolutely no redeeming qualities, who were saying the exact opposite in Sept. 2007. You would think the Sox should be in a position to take on some money, so maybe they are just being patient, giving him the rope to hang himself, and a better player may be available for less when the noose does its job.

QUOTE (forrestg @ Mar 22, 2009 -> 05:33 PM) sorry going back to the original post "future considerations" what does that mean? another minor leaguer or is the value of future considerations have to do with how Stewart is valued after he goes to the yankees? A draft pick what or when does the yankees have to give back. do we have a choice now or are we offered something later. When its for a guy like Chris Stewart, chances are, it will be for a guy who you never have heard of, and probably will never hear of again. Its probably based on his performance and/or if he plays for the Yankees or in the minors. If Posada can't play much, Stewart may be in NY.

QUOTE (flavum @ Mar 22, 2009 -> 05:22 PM) Jerry Owens: 0-2, 3 BB's, 3 runs, 2 stolen bases Boo. If Jerry Owens was FA this winter, he would have had to sign a minor league contract. He's going to leadoff for the White Sox unless KW can pull a rabbit out of his hat and get Figgins or someone else. Of course, if he goes 0-2 with 3 BB and 2 SB every day, the Sox would be in good shape. I just think unfortunately, he's showing enough where the White Sox won't give up on him. 3 or 4 years ago, I was a big Owens fan, then I saw him play. I honestly think Pods or a guy like Chris Duffy, and obviously neither are world beaters, are better than Owens. I also think Owens is better than Wise as an everyday or platoon guy. Wise is probably a better 5 AB a week guy.

I just wonder what has Lillibridge done last year and this spring to justify a roster spot?

QUOTE (jenks45monster @ Mar 22, 2009 -> 04:17 PM) I wouldn't mind him as much as some would. I don't care about his s***y OBP. When he gets on, he is a major threat and one of the fastest players in the game. As long as LA eats a lot of the money owed to him, I'm fine with him as our leadoff hitter. I think it would piss you off if a guy hit a flyball for a sacrifice fly in fairly deep CF scoring a guy from second. Pierre cannot be a CF. I agree he's a big threat to steal when he gets on and he puts the ball in play so runners on base when he bats generally will move along, but the low OBP + the unbelievable bad arm (he makes Lance Johnson look like Roberto Clemente) is too much to take on IMO, although Ozzie loves him from their Florida days.