Dick Allen

QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Oct 24, 2008 -> 10:03 AM) I would say that Javy, although a little thin between the ears, is signed at a fairly inexpensive rate. He's an innings eater and a strikeout machine. He'll probably make $5-$7 million less than what Sabathia will get, so, I think he'd be a decent pickup for a team like Milwaukee. I don't know why he is called inexpensive when he makes $11 million a year and generally gives you a .500 record with an ERA at or above league average. He may have talent, but if you use results, he's an average at best pitcher. $11 million for that is very high.

The other "terrorist" the GOP is trying to link Obama to is Saul Alinsky Now Alinsky’s name is being dragged in the mix. During an interview Friday on Andrea Mitchell’s MSNBC show, Sen. Kit Bond (R-Mo.) said, “Obama started out with Saul Alinsky.” Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.) told Chris Matthews on “Hardball” that Alinsky was “one of his teachers, you might say.” Someone needs to rewrite their talking points. Alinsky, born in Chicago on Jan. 30, 1909, died June 12, 1972 in Carmel, Calif. — when Obama was 10. It appears to be a bit of desperation. The robo calls in PA are as well. I really believe the anti-America talking points they are bring up now are strictly racial. I think anti-America is code for anyone who would vote for a black man. In fact I read where Palin holds her rallies, the places she calls the "real America"(Its nice to know I live in Chicago, so I really don't live in America) are more predominantly white by a rather large margin than the country as a whole. Sarah Palin's real America is at least 83% white.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 15, 2008 -> 09:57 AM) I don't see the Sox getting Hudson. Historically Kenny has used 2B as a position to save some money. Think back on our 2Bs, he has never ponied up big for a guy over there. Alexei Ramirez, Juan Uribe, Danny Richar, Tadahito Iguchi, D'Angelo Jimenez, and Willie Harris are the guys that come to mind right away. When Ray Durham was about to get paid, Kenny traded him for nothing. I'd bet on Getz, a cheap FA, or some minor league guy no one is thinking about that Kenny swings a minor deal for. I don't think they will sign him either, but if Ramirez goes to short and Beckham is ready to go in 2010, KW is going to have a couple of pretty cheap infielders for at least a couple of years, so he theoretically should have money to spend. Hudson is a nice player, I think he wants 8 figures. I don't think he's that nice.

The Tribune has switched sides. They are endorsing the democratic nominee, for the first time ever.

QUOTE (almagest @ Oct 17, 2008 -> 01:12 PM) Who cares? He "dogs" it at a hall-of-fame caliber. I don't care if he takes a dump in the outfield every game if he posts a .900+ OPS, which he's done pretty much every year of his career. I really just can't understand the Manny Ramirez hatred going on in this thread. As a 36 year old playing for the Dodgers, you see what he's capable of when he wants to give maximum effort. The reason I don't like him is because he gets paid tons of money to play a game. Full effort should be expected. If he can't give maximum effort at least for a good portion of the time, he's an ass to me. Sorry. Ask the Red Sox and their fans what they thought about his annual mysterious injuries every September. How would you feel if you could only go see him play a couple of times a year and the day you go he's sitting out because he claims to be hurt when he's not? Or how do you explain to your kid, his OPS is over .900 its OK to run to first in 6 seconds so the other team can turn a DP? His yearly whining about wanting to be traded, then taking it back gets a little old too, and I don't even follow the Red Sox. He won't hit anywhere near as well as he hit for the Dodgers if he signs a multi-year contract and will come up with some fake injury to sit for a long stretch too next year. As good of a hitter as he is, KW wouldn't touch him.

If the White Sox could have played a little better....................Boston has some problems, the correct color could have knocked them off. Gavin Floyd back in Philadelphia would have been interesting.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 16, 2008 -> 04:25 PM) Keith Law said Fields had no problems catching up to fastballs but that he couldn't hit breaking balls. I really take what Keith Law says for a grain of salt. Ironic there is a thread calling Danks an elite arm, written by Keith Law.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Oct 16, 2008 -> 05:28 PM) A-rod is one of the best players ever, Manny is one of the best RH hitters ever. There is definately a difference. Of course Manny also has had the ability to get on team and make them winners, and A-rod seems to have the opposite effect. Manny has had the luxury of playing for better teams than ARod. The Mariners became a power. The Rangers were and are awful. Its because of Manny the Indians became winners? You do know the Indians won the AL Central the year Manny left? They also had guys like Colon, Lofton, Belle, Thome, Alomar, Vizquel over the years. It was all Manny the Red Sox won? How come it didn't happen right away? And if it was all him, how in the world did the Red Sox make the playoffs without him this year. The Dodgers won 84 games. Its not like that is some outstanding team. They were 30-25 with Manny, a decent record, but not eye popping. ARod gets slammed because of the Mariners season after he left, but how far did they advance in the playoffs? The year ARod left and his last season, the Mariners lost in the ALCS. Texas had a better record without him, but really are you going to the credit that to his not being on the team? If anyone thinks a 36 year old meathead, albeit a great hitter when he wants to be, is more valuable than a guy who probably will go down as the greatest player ever, you might be as nuts as Manny. At least with ARod, you can always count on him giving his best effort.

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Oct 16, 2008 -> 04:45 PM) So NOW relationships matter? I see. What's Joe running for again? That's right, nothing. I see the narrative. Destroy Joe the plumber and then the words will have magically never have been spoken by the Chosen One about how he wants to redistribute wealth. Joe can be the f***ing rotting corpse of Jimmy Hoffa and it still doesn't change the words out of Obama's mouth. Sp why continue on these politcs of personal destruction? Oh, also, there is no relationship there. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/16/1.../42/1001/632600 And just a little more on all that Democratic hate, Daily Kos has listed Joe the Plumber’s full name and address on its front page. Democratic Underground has posted his phone number and other information. Politico.com has three different writers busy publishing details about Joe the Plumber’s private life. No hate there. This is the guy who BSed his way to the national spotlight, and then McCain mentions him in the debate, which I'm sure wasn't part of the plan was it?. He put himself in the spotlight. This is all his doing. Its not like when the media was camped out at Bartman's house when all the guy did was what anyone else sitting in his seat would have done. If Anne vs. Ann is enough to kill a vote, Joe shouldn't count in November. But of course, he doesn't know who he's voting for yet, does he?

QUOTE (almagest @ Oct 16, 2008 -> 10:16 AM) Rodriguez and Ramirez have career OPS+ within 7 points of each other, in almost the same career length (15/16 years). Their career highs in OPS+ are within 9 points of each other. If Ramirez can post these numbers while "not trying," he's obviously a much better player than A-Rod on potential alone. Similar offensively. Defensively, no contest. ARod could still probably play SS at least as well as Manny can play LF. The title of the thread was who was more valuable. Its amazing how many nauseating "Manny being Manny" moments are forgotten because some guy forced his way off a team that paid him handsomely and treated him well and went to play for a contract with a team located by his agent, Scott Boras, and was awesome. Sorry, you'll never get that Manny for a whole season if he's signed for multiple years anymore.

QUOTE (almagest @ Oct 16, 2008 -> 11:07 AM) He also put up a .299/.398/.529 line with the Red Sox, at the age of 36. I guess compared to his obscene 213 OPS+ with the Dodgers those numbers could be considered "loafing," but that's almost exactly the same production the Red Sox are getting from Jason Bay. Is he "loafing" too? Manny and A-Rod have very similar lifetime stats, as well. I don't think you can declare either one as "better." It really just seems like you don't like Manny Ramirez, so you find second-hand accounts of how he isn't liked by his teammates, ignore his actual production, and claim that makes Ramirez somehow inferior to A-Rod/whoever else. Jason Bay also isn't walking away from $40 million the next 2 seasons which is one of the conditions Manny put on being traded. Teams cannot exercise the $20 million a year options. At least you know with ARod, he's going to show up and play hard every game. That and Madonna will be watching.

I wonder if he'll pay taxes on the payoff he received for playing this roll. Its pretty funny.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Oct 16, 2008 -> 12:01 PM) link? and yeah... that's just perfect. Aparently he is a registered voter because he voted in the republican primary. There were reports he wasn't registered, but there is a misspelling of his name on his registration. But the other 2 things he appears to have confirmed.

So Joe the plumber isn't a licensed plumber. Doesn't make $250k a year and isn't even registered to vote. Why does that make me laugh out loud.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Oct 16, 2008 -> 09:27 AM) Rock Star Obama Obama may be a rock star, but Sarah Palin is a bresh of freath air.

Manny Ramirez is a douche bag. He loafed this season with the Red Sox who have only paid him about $120 million. It was so bad, his TEAMMATES told management he needs to go. He gets "motivated" playing for a new contract, and suddenly he's a better player than ARod? Please. Barry Bonds was awful in the post season until later in his career. Frank Thomas has had 2 post season series where he failed to get a hit. It happens. ARod is a superior player. Manny could have been right up there with him, but he was the one who chose not to. He is pretty awesome when he wants to be, but that isn't everyday. He even took a couple of Septembers off with the Red Sox with mystery injuries. God help whichever team opens the bank for him this winter.

John McCain claims he is all about America, and has stated several times he knows how to get Bin Laden. What's he been waiting for? He has to be the President? The current regime won't listen to him? What is it? Wouldn't "getting Bin Laden" and giving McCain a lot of credit help him with the election? Or is he just talking s***? He's had 7 years to deliver his plan, and he considers himself a true leader. He suspended his campaign until he fixed the economy.

35,14,56

QUOTE (Texsox @ Oct 11, 2008 -> 10:46 AM) In rereading through the thread I think I've been really unclear. [*]Players talk about the distractions of the playoffs. 25 men in the club house is normal, 35 is not. The White Sox were so distracted with the extra players they were able to beat Cleveland, Detroit and Minnesota on consecutive nights to make it to the playoffs.

QUOTE (Texsox @ Oct 11, 2008 -> 09:40 AM) So I ask you again, how important is this attitude stuff compared to ability? You did say that Broadway has to show a lot more ability to get a roster spot over someone like Wasserman. In other words you would take Wasserman's attitude over better performance from Broadway. This post seems to be more along the points that I've been saying. And even though there was never a mention that any of these guys had a bad attitude while playing, did this one instance seal their fate? That other players will not look at the previous year or three, instead judge based on just the playoffs? Because what you would be saying is a year or two as a teammate is not as important as one playoff series when you are not on the team. Perhaps there is some merit to that statement. They disrespected their teammates. If it wasn't a big deal, Farmer and Stone, a couple of guys who played in the major leagues wouldn't have gone on and on about what a mistake it was. Farmer and Cowley wouldn't have mentioned how it irked players and management. These three obviously have forgotten what a lot of players always remember. Wearing a major league uniform is a priviledge. I ask you, what good does it do to go home? What good for your career does sitting on your ass do? I'm telling you, and you aren't buying, the guys who left had their status with their teammates go down a couple of pegs for not wanting to be with them.

QUOTE (Texsox @ Oct 11, 2008 -> 08:14 AM) The team already told these guys who the first alternate was. Which was Wasserman and specifically asked Wasserman to stay. They gave the other guys a choice to stay or leave. Throwing, working out? No mention of that at all. And why would the coaches, during the playoffs, move their attention away from the guys on the roster to spend time with AAAA guys who would not be playing? Seems distracting to me. Tryouts in the middle of the playoffs? No Thanks. Cabrera will find a team. I guess that shows how important attitude is compared to ability. Interesting you would take these guys with the problems you outlined, if they stayed. I believe they have to prove it on the field, not in the locker room. But you fill your roster with guys who but who can pat asses and cheer their fool little heads off. I'll take the guys who can play. That's right. There are a lot of guys who have hung around a long time, not because of playing ability but because they are good guys who work hard, and are a good influence to the rest of the roster. As I've stated, I don't want any 3 of these guys to ever pitch for the White Sox again, and I would have said this before they blew off their teammates and instead of staying in Tampa, which would be the easier thing to do physically, they went home. As you said, there are plenty of bad attitudes in sports, but they guys you mentioned have something these 3 don't. A lot of abilility and a history of performance. If Manny Ramirez had Alex Cora's abillity and still was the Manny being Manny guy, he wouldn't be in the major leagues. You have to earn your stripes. The 3 who went home haven't. As far as getting their work in during the playoffs, that's really no problem. There's plenty of time. These guys get to the park sometimes 5 or 6 hours before the game starts.

QUOTE (Texsox @ Oct 11, 2008 -> 08:46 AM) Again, How much better will Broadway have to pitch than someone else to make the team? If it comes down to him or Wassermann, a guy who stayed, I would say a lot better. I think KW probably has an idea to send Broadway away this offseason. Clubhouse chemistry is often mentioned today as well. Once Cabrera finds a new team, you will hear how disruptive he was to that particular aspect. Another thing to keep in mind as these guys left, is that teams can change their roster with eligible players every series. Tampa changed theirs. What if there happened to be an injury or 2 and the White Sox advanced to the ALCS? Guys that could have been throwing with their major league coaches and working out before games would have to come back from home if they were added to the roster. It was an idiotic move to make, especially considering the thin ice the 3 guys careers are basically on. MacDougal can't throw a strike. Logan has trouble with strikes and homers, and Broadway can't get AAA hitters out. If you think a guy like AJP will ever let these guys forget how they disrespected him and the rest of the White Sox by going home, I think you're sadly mistaken.

QUOTE (Texsox @ Oct 11, 2008 -> 07:12 AM) My not getting paid is more to the point that "it's a business". You can talk about bonding and being a team mate, but IMHO that lasts until the next contract negotiations. Thomas came to the park during 2005, yet he still was not offered a new contract? Did KW not see him? He was loyal to his team mates for years, even accepting lower contracts to play for the Sox. He was arguably the greatest player to play for the Sox, AND flew in special to be with his teammates, and the following year was playing for Oakland. So we know how unimportant it is if you are a HoF caliber player to be around the team and bonding. Clearly these guys are not HoF material. So now let's look how important it will be for a AAAA player. Setting aside a few things, and for the sake of the discussion. I'll agree with all you said, now, let's put this in a practical manner. How much better will Broadway now have to pitch to make the team over someone who stayed? IF during Spring Training Logan or Broadway are putting up better numbers compared to guys who were in the clubhouse, will people here argue that they should spend more time in AAA and leave the roster spots to the guys that stayed? I've never heard an argument around here for keeping someone with less stats than someone playing better because they are better ass patters and cheer harder for the teammates. If that were the case, we would have a whole lot more Anderson love. Bottom line, by Spring Training, all this is forgotten. Guys are going to have to earn their roster spots by their play on the field, not by donning cheerleader outfits and patting asses in the clubhouse. Comparing these 3 with the Frank Thomas situation is absurd. Frank wasn't coming back no matter what. KW hates him, and he was hurt. These are guys that still need to establish their place. Going home doesn't help that. They are in the doghouse, and once you get in a White Sox doghouse, its difficult to get out. The White Sox are a baseball TEAM. Those 3 may not have been on the roster, but the organization which includes the other players still considered them part of the TEAM. Too bad the players didn't feel the same way. I have a feeling they will regret it.

QUOTE (Texsox @ Oct 9, 2008 -> 06:53 PM) We are talking about the same players who will say adios in a heartbeat for a bigger paycheck? Sorry, there are no loyalties in baseball anymore. If there were, Maggs and Thomas would still be on the team. So I can just as easily see the same greedy teammates who are there say, "hey it's a business and they aren't getting paid to be here, so they left, I can understand that". In fact, how often do we hear, "it's a business"? And look how much the fans truly appreciate the loyalty and support angle. Anderson was awesome in 2005. Man, he was on that top rail, leaping over and jumping and really supporting his teammates. Yet at any given time half the board wants him gone. I agree they probably should have stayed. But I don't agree it sent any message to their teammates. I don't think it helped BA in 2006 or 2008 that he hung around. And I don't recall any fans sticking up for him when he sucked because he was so loyal and supported his teammates. Some guys rise to the occasion and others fold. I believe you have to be in the game to learn which you are. I believe you need experience in the game to truly make a difference. There's where we disagree. I think if any of these guys are still with the White Sox next year, pretty much every player and maybe even more importantly, Ozzie and KW, won't forget they would rather go home than have to stay in a nice hotel, hang out with their teammates and watch a playoff game their team is playing on a huge television in the clubhouse. As far as your, "they aren't getting paid" argument, its the playoffs, every player is in the same boat. Their salaries have been paid. This argument isn't about the fans. As a huge fan, It wouldn't have bothered me if they told these 3 to go home after Charlotte's season ended, costing at least Broadway $65k which is what he was paid to sit around and not play for a month. It wouldn't have bothered me if the Sox told the 3 to go home after they won the division, but that isn't what happened. The most important opinions are of White Sox players and all reports say their departures were well-noted. Even Farmio and Stone, 2 guys who played MLB, travel with the Sox and would have a better perspective of this than you or me, were perplexed that going home would even be a consideration for these guys.

It will be sweet having Pat Foley back as well.