Dick Allen

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 01:37 PM) Hmm, I wonder what he thinks of Hawk? Hawk pisses me off a lot, but I do love him.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 01:33 PM) You want to talk about "spin"? Look at your posts in regards to KW. You're impossible to satisfy. You're the ultimate "in hindsight" guy. You're always nitpicking everything. This team won the World Series in 05'. In 06', it won 90 games. Last year sucked. We ALL know that. But that doesn't mean that the 08' team immediately starts out as a 72-win capable team as currently constructed. There are such things in a season as momentum, cummulative affects, bad-luck, injury, that come together to achieve results which are not necessarily the sum of their parts. I'll be the first to admit it happened in 05' when we won. And it certainly happened last year when we stunk. But just as that 05' team was not 99-win strong in talent, the 07' team was not 90-loss in talent. The whole point is that Kenny felt Hunter for 5/75 was a risk worth taking, but not at 5/90. Why is that difficult to understand? And yes, some of the players that were signed before HAVE strangled the team a bit financially, but that's an amazingly relative situation. Your team CAN be strangled a bit financially if your veterans perform as they ought to. Last year, they did not. But that does not mean they will not again this year. What you're arguing is almost like you do not want Kenny to commit the necessary resources to maximize the team's chances for success. Had we had stacks and stacks of leftover $ with which to spend on other players, you'd be sitting here claiming Kenny is an idiot for not compiling the best team possible. You're just impossible to please. Ever. I actually think sometimes you are Jay Mariotti. First off calling me Jay Mariotti is a personal attack and should get you a lifetime ban. Secondly, if you have ever read my posts, I'm hardly a "hindsight" guy. Thirdly the "90 win team" of 2006 was a mirage. They were awesome the first half, and awful the second. 2007 was an extension of the second half of 2006. Bad hitting, a horrible bullpen. That is now a season and a half of bad baseball. Thinking its just some sort of "perfect storm" is for cowards and losers as coach Ditka likes to say. KW's point wasn't 5/75 vs. 5/90. Hunter never even gave the White Sox a chance to match it. It was the 75 million. People expect KW to spend that now, and he's basically letting people know its not there. KW needs to realize the reason why he doesn't have stacks and stacks of money to spend on improving his team, is because KW spent stacks and stacks of money locking in a bad team for a few years.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 01:21 PM) Again, finance doesn't work the way you seem to see it. He both does, and does not, have that money to play with. What he has is license to plow back earnings into player personnel, but also to do so on a forward-looking basis. He can spend a lot on the right player if there is payoff in that. He doesn't just have some stack of money to blow. JR has always said that the Sox are a basically break-even operation, and that is still true. Therefore, yes there are limits to spending, but those limits can be stretched in return for later returns. That does NOT mean that money for future years can simply go out the door. I think I know how finance works. KW is also using the "can't spend $1 if you only have $.50" talk. Considering White Sox attendance figures recently, considering they are raising ticket prices, who is responsible for having a team with as many holes as the White Sox and doesn't have the finances to throw a little money at it? Its funny KW would chastise people like he has all the answers. 1 playoff appearance in 7 years.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 01:13 PM) No... he was willing to pay $15M a year for 4 or 5 years, not $18M a year for 5. This is what he was getting at - its easy to say "spend every dime" when you don't see what that does to the organization. Its counterproductive at some point - the only question is, where is that point? He's talking about the $75 million which is $15 million a year. People are assuming that's what he has to play with now, and he's saying it isn't. He's the guy that always says every dime that comes it goes out. I have no problem with the White Sox payroll, I do have a problem with the way KW spins it and then goes into the "if I did what the public wanted" garbage. He has an older team with a $108 million payroll that came pretty darn close to being the worst team in baseball last year. Its time he got off the high horse.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 01:03 PM) Did you just compare the contracts of Dye, Konerko and Vaz, all of which were very good deals, to the Hunter lottery winner? And then you say KW is spinning? That is his whole point. I wanted Hunter too, but at that contract, you essentially strangle the organization financially for years. And whether people want to acknowledge it or not, that $75M wasn't some giant stack of cash sitting in a corner with Hunter's jersey on top. Its an investment with some expected return to help pay for itself. So on one hand he was willing to strangle the team for years to get Hunter, but since he didn't accept, the contracts he's already doled out have strangled the team from adding payroll. Then he goes into the "fans want instant gratification and don't look at the big picture talk" when he traded a cheap young CF and 2 decent pitchers for what would be an expensive 5th starter in 2006. Once again, I ask which players did the fans clamour to have and complained about not getting which enable KW to bring back most of an aging 90 loss $108 million payroll team?

Who is he talking about that the fans wanted him to throw money at? Why would it have been OK to break the budget with Torii Hunter but not with Buerhle, Contreras, Dye,Konerko, Vazquez et al? Spin, spin, spin. I'm sick of spin. Its funny he's criticizing the fans for looking "at today only", but wouldn't that have been what he was doing with Hunter? Doesn't he always pop off about winning now? Wasn't it KW who wanted to throw money at Bartolo Colon? Didn't he try to throw a lot of money at Magglio? He is so full of s*** its ridiculous.

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 05:14 PM) Prediction: KW will be among the highest bidders but Prior states that he would rather sign with the Expos. Yeah, he wants to be the first pitcher in team history to do the towel drill. Cooper had a couple pitchers on it last year.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 05:11 PM) I'm a lot of things. I think that's good. Isn't it?

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 05:07 PM) With your neighbor. How did you know? You're Batman.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 05:05 PM) With alcohol. And hookers.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 03:50 PM) And I, for one, am damn glad it's not your job if you would have paid 18-20 mil per year for a player like Torii Hunter. That is the only way that deal would have been completed. Miguel Cabrera? Hell, what could you have done? Nothing! Isn't KW responsible for the current mess. The mess that's so bad he has to add guys like Hunter and MCabrera to have a shot?

QUOTE(BearSox @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 03:46 PM) think to yourself, what is more important... a no. 3 starter who was entering his prime, or a 33 year old shortstop coming off what could be considered a career year? Now, they were both free agents at the end of the season, but I still believe we could have gotten a couple pretty good prospects for Garland rather then someone who we will have for a last place season. This move was, at best, a lateral move... I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Garland have his best season since 05 and Cabrera go back to his career norms of a .270 average and an OPS of 720. I don't mind the trade as long as they have something better than Floyd and Danks as the guys going to fill his innings. I agree with you, chances are Cabrera will step back at least a little next year. Garland isn't much better than average, but just imagine how much worse the bullpen will be if they have to pitch 50 or 60 more innings.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 03:45 PM) At least if Cabrera leaves in FA, we'll get more compensation for him then we would have with Garland. As for the DLS + Gio + Shelby for Bowden and Crisp rumored by Fathom, ummm there's absolutely no way I make that deal. DLS should be untouchable, unless I'm getting a Jay Bruce. White Sox fans should get off the draft pick compensation as the way to re-build the minors. You wind up having to pay these draft picks over $1 million each and most don't pan out. Its better to trade players of value for young guys already on their way to making it, showing they can be successful, with their bonuses already paid.

Not that it means it isn't true, but it was the poster who posted this very first post on that board.

QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 01:00 PM) Do you have a link? I am one of the few who would really like to see some Coco on this team, and the idea of getting Bowden makes me a little excited too... More info please! There's a thread on WSI. Some guy in Boston radio claims its in place just waiting on the Santana situation to evolve.

QUOTE(BaseballNick @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 12:02 PM) What's there to collect? You can't just keep a player solely based on pride if he can be your biggest bargaining chip on the trade market. This team has holes; I think we can all agree on that much. Kenny can tweak the roster to make this team a competitor for maybe another year, but that's only if a lot of things fall into place. I think it makes more sense to deal Mark if he can yield the White Sox two or three good, young players. Mark is a good pitcher, he's a hero on the South Side, and there's no player on the roster that I like more than him...but he's not a world beater. Baseball is a business. As we saw this past month or so, FAs aren't out to do us any favors. The free agent route is a pretty risky, not to mention, expensive way to address your team's needs, and it burnt us this year. Trading Mark can help "fix" years of poor drafts and give us the depth we're in pretty desperate need of at the moment. Signing a player below market value because he's willing to take a discount because he likes being in your organization and then trading him and putting him in the awkward position of either waiving his no trade or using it, is really not condusive to having players agree to play for a hometown discount ever again, even if they do get a little extra money if they are dealt. I would bet just about anything Buerhle is not being discussed.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 12:56 PM) What's the rumored deal? Supposedly 3 Sox minor leaguers with Shelby being one of them.

QUOTE(EvilJester99 @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 12:51 PM) I would be interested in this deal only because of the supposed prospect that the Sox are said to be getting Bowden... Scouting Report: Bowden is a big righty strikeout starter with ace potential. He is an advanced pitcher for his age, but still has a ways to go to reach his potential. He has an arsenal of four pitches that have the potential to be big-league caliber: a low-90s four-seam fastball which tops out around 95, a 12-6 hard breaking curve, a tight slider, and a developing circle changeup with plus potential. His main pitch, the four-seamer, has a late, heavy sinking movement. Also, Bowden has a two-seamer that is a few mph off of his four-seamer with a bit more movement. His changeup sits in the low 80s, about 10 mph off of his fastball - has room for improvement. His slider sits around 81 mph and curveball in the mid 70s, but he doesn't utilize it all that often. Secondary stuff isn't dominant at this point, and he relies a little too much on his fastball. Overall, Bowden has a very good command of the zone, but could stand to miss a few more bats. One aspect that should come with more experience is improved pitchability against advanced hitters. Delivery is somewhat unconventional, almost 3/4 style, with a leaning motion while dropping his head a bit - but he's able to maintain it throughout his outings. Bowden is said to be a workaholic and just loves to pitch - another player who just lives and dies for baseball. Very athletic. Which probably means Gio or DSL is involved. I'm one of the few who likes Crisp and thinks he will put up a better OBP than Torii Hunter and play just as well defensively.

KW would be committing "hometown discount" suicide if he trades Buerhle before he even starts collecting on his extension.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 09:41 AM) Rumors are he won't even be healthy until 2050. I think its more fact than rumor.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 20, 2007 -> 09:25 AM) Signing Prior to a one year deal makes no sense for us. I can't see why he'd want to pitch here anyways, as he'll likely choose a big ballpark when he can perform better and then get a bigger contract next season. I agree that he would have to be crazy to think pitching at USCF is going to help him maximize his dollars in 2009.

FWIW, Richar is having a terrible winter league.

QUOTE(DonnyDevito @ Dec 17, 2007 -> 05:57 PM) Heck, Floyd's last 10 appearances were superb IMO. 45.2 innings pitched, 18 earned runs. I'll take that all day long from Mr. Floyd. What is that, a 2.5 ERA...she it that's what I'm talking about. And the best thing of all is Gavin Floyd is another Tigers killer!!! In Gavin's last 21 innings pitched against Detroit, he only gave up 2 runs. earned or otherwise. Hopefully the Tigers will be without Rodriguez, Sheffield and Ordonez not to mention Renteria and Cabrera when they see him next time. Timo Perez was hitting 3rd in Leyland's line-up against him one game and 5th the other. In his 3 good games against the Tigers the Tigers had Casey, Rayburn and Timo batting 3rd. The time they had a full line-up he was killed.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Dec 17, 2007 -> 01:58 AM) Morons don't graduate from Stanford. Neither did Kenny.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Dec 17, 2007 -> 12:02 PM) I would hope not -- in my experience there's very little correlation if any at all between college attendance and intelligence. And for anyone saying that Williams not graduating is a sign of stupidity, go tell that to Bill Gates. I didn't say it was a sign of stupidity, I said you can hardly call him a "Stanford guy" like has been described to verify his intelligence, and you cannot compare his academic "resume" with guys like Epstein or his ilk, because it is not there. What I have referred to as "stupidity" is saying his pitching staff as is, will not be a problem, as well as some of the other comments that he has made. Using the other side of the coin, just because he throws out a few big words now and then, that doesn't mean he is a genius either.