Dick Allen

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 24, 2007 -> 10:26 AM) Well to be honest, with that set of drafts we were coming off horrible seasons and had some top 10 draft picks. McDowell was number 5 overall in 87. He was a stud in the college world series. Ventura was next year, and if you look at his college numbers the guy was dominating. Thomas was the next year. Then Alex Fernandez, who won the golden spikes award that year. Being bad over a period of years is a great way of retooling the old minor league system. Trust me, unless we are totally incompetent. If we are bad for a few years, our minor league system will go from baren to impressive in a short period of time. Its the nature of draft position. The only new factor these days is the boras factor. They also got very lucky. They really wanted Mike Harkey, but the Cubs took him, so they had to settle for Black Jack. They also wanted Jeff Jackson, but the Phillies took the Simeon High School bust, and the Sox took Frank Thomas. I think Fernandez was drafted by Milwaukee or someone earlier and didn't sign. They did pick up guys like Bere and Durham in later rounds. Himes also picked up Roberto Hernandez from the Angels for minor league crap which was a coup.

If anyone doesn't think KW is/was using DS as a scapegoat for this pitiful season, you're fooling yourselves. I'm sure there's some sour grapes as far as DS is concerned, but for KW to laugh about him, when he put together a team in last place with a $100 million + payroll, shows just how smug KW is. He should be worried about the mess he has created, yet he's so comfortable with his "genius" that he laughs at 35 year employees who are out of jobs. I believe in the end you get what's coming to you, and eventually KW will be humbled. It will take a lot because obviously this season has done nothing to shrink his huge head.

What ever happened to all the GM who were getting aggressive with KW? Its really hard to believe he's sat through this all year and has only brought in guys from his weak system.

QUOTE(Chisoxrd5 @ Jul 23, 2007 -> 10:24 PM) Dewon Day has made an appearance..I'm now bracing myself for fun bad baseball. The fact that he's still on the roster shows just how bad the pitching staff in Charlotte is as far as potential major leaguers.

Hawk does say some curious things, like when he watches the game he doesn't watch the ball he watches the hitter. If that is true how come he is constantly b****ing about a pitch 2 inches off the plate immediately after its called a strike.

Neither of the two guys made of porcelain are in the line-up tonight.

Detroit C. Granderson cf P. Polanco 2b G. Sheffield dh M. Ordonez rf C. Guillen ss I. Rodriguez c C. Monroe lf M. Hessman 1b B. Inge 3b Chi White Sox J. Owens cf T. Iguchi 2b J. Thome dh P. Konerko 1b A.J. Pierzynski c J. Dye rf J. Fields 3b J. Uribe ss A. Gonzalez lf

QUOTE(SoxAce @ Jul 23, 2007 -> 05:28 PM) Looks like it is Mr. Floyd going in the second DH. Damn talk about throwing a pitcher in the fire/taking your lumps and healing them. Your first ML starts are against the Twins and the Tigers. Go get em. Floyd has spent parts of 4 seasons now in the major leagues.

I think its because they don't want them relieving right now. They have some innings under their belt this year and maybe the different type of routine may worry them. Ozzie had a few teammates that came to the Sox from AA. Thomas, Ventura, McDowell (who made 30 starts and then did pitch in AAA) and Fernandez (who only made 4 starts in AA).

The reason why I watch and why the rest of this board still watches is because we are very sick.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jul 23, 2007 -> 03:56 PM) Oh, forgive me for not participating in the childish, knee-jerk piling-on act. Why would you compare a starting pitcher's numbers to those of a guy who worked exclusively out of the 'pen? Oh, right, because that's the only way that you can make this deal look negative. Would you not say that McCarthy is "floundering" this year? Finding a GM stupid enough to take Freddy and the $10 million he was owed was enormous. Way to avoid giving Kenny any credit whatsoever! Yeah, the contributions from Contreras, Garcia, Jenks, and AJ were all "luck." Good one! Nobody ever said that Kenny was some sort of "genius", so I don't understand where the hyperbole is coming from. Yep, all luck again! It is lucky that a guy who can throw 100 and close out games becomes available on waivers. Freddy was easy to move. He won 17 games last season even though danger signs were all around. Ozzie said he would win 20 in 2007 after they traded him. Maybe he shouldn't be helping with personnel decisions. If you don't think AJ fell into KW's lap and KW did go on record as saying he would not be a White Sox, and if you don't think its lucky that Oakland gave Pittsburgh something the Pirates wanted more than what KW was offering and if you don't think its lucky Matsui's tank with the Mets kept Iguchi affordable, Iand if you don't think its lucky the Yankees outbid KW for Wright, which would have ended any of Iguchi and AJ being White Sox, keep drinking the KW kool aid. I won't take the championship away from him, he deserves credit for that. But I don't believe it should stop anyone from criticizing his blunders of which there are plenty. Everyone has them. Sorry, I won't judge the McCarthy trade until a few years from now. It certainly didn't help the 2007 White Sox much and I don't see where it is a deal that couldn't be turned down. Masset blows, and Danks may or may not be as good as McCarthy when its all said and done.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jul 23, 2007 -> 01:51 PM) It's interesting that even a good GM like Billy Beane has yet to win a pennant, much less a championship. Considering that KW was able to unload a washed-up Freddy and his $10 million tag AND dump a floundering McCarthy for Danks PLUS additional prospects just this off-season, I'd say that he's still a halfway decent GM. Before you hurt Kenny by patting him on the back for the McCarthy trade keep in mind Danks numbers aren't as good as McCarthy's were last year and you called him "floundering". Also the other "prospect" had an ERA over 7.00, and couldn't throw a strike. Unloading Garcia was obvious, and anything he got back would have been considered a good deal. The fact of the matter was the GM genius took a bullpen that was bad, and made it into perhaps the worst bullpen in team history, and now has assembled a team with a payroll over $100 million that has no playoff chance and is tied with KC. So please forgive me if trusting every move this guy makes just because the team won in 2005 when he lucked out he didn't get Jason Kendall, or Jared Wright or Omar Vizquel and the Angels luckily waived Bobby Jenks. Even Hawk changed his mind on AJ, and Iguchi was available cheap because of Kaz Matsui's struggles. Any of the previous doesn't happen, KW would be seen as incompetent by 95% of White Sox fans.

Chances are at least one of these guys will get hurt again within 2 weeks. That's why I think Terrero will stay.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 22, 2007 -> 06:11 PM) That would really, really suck. Honest question, do you really think we'd lose that many season ticket holders from 11 loses that mean nothing? You're probably right, but it's an interesting thought. I don't even think the White Sox know the answer to that. The other problem is even if they get hot and finish around .500, they really have been a bore of a team to watch this year. That's going to be a hard sell with the guys pretty far up in the upper tank. I think there is going to be a massive drop off, but I also thought that would happen to the Bulls once Jordan left. JR and his friends made even more money losing. I remember a Barry Rozner article interviewing a partner with the Bulls talking about how embarrassed he was at the money he was making with such a horrid team. The pre-Jordan Bulls were less popular in Chicago than the pre-World Champion White Sox. I would imagine though, if projected attendance is going to drop significantly, so will the payroll. That's why I would have liked to have seen KW pull the plug a little earlier and deal some big contracts. He could have used this year's savings on next year's roster.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 22, 2007 -> 05:31 PM) I'll take 95 losses and a top 5 pick over a 84 losses and a mid first round pick. But hey, that's just me. Most would, but the bandwagon season ticketholders are more likely to renew the other way around. If 20% drop out, does the payroll drop 20%?

QUOTE(LVSoxFan @ Jul 22, 2007 -> 04:45 PM) Wow. When was the last time we were in last place? I cannot even remember. Not counting opening days and the first week or so of a season, its been a while since the Sox have been in the cellar this late. 73-93 their last 166. Someone is going to have to take a hit this offseason you would think. If Ozzie had taken this season off, whoever took his place would be gone now or gone immediately after the season ended. Its going to be interesting to see if some sort of blood bath takes place after this season. I think Ozzie and KW are probably safe, but someone is going to be the fall guy.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Jul 22, 2007 -> 05:53 PM) You actaully hope Floyd runs himself out of town? I can understand not liking Floyd, or thinking he won't succeed, but hoping he won't? Oh, and since you beleive the IL is "little league" how do you explain Haegers numbers in AAA? I'm sure he would want Floyd to succeed, but if he's like me he probably thinks that isn't likely. It would be best to see him stink up the joint the rest of this year than to count on him next season after a decent year in AAA and have him screw up when the team has a clean slate.

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Jul 22, 2007 -> 11:37 AM) I am not convinced there will be big spending by the Sox on the free agent market this year. Who really is going to be out there that will be a plus relief pitcher? There might very well be heavy bidding on the few that might be there and it will drive up their price. We will probably pick up some younger guys that have not really excelled and are considered works in progress. Or guys that have been hurt and have talent, but won't be demanding the big bucks. That's why I think Jose will get traded and we use the money to keep the likes of Dye and Iguchi and use a little for the leftovers in the free agent market. There was an article in the Daily Herald the other day insinuating KW is going to be spending some money on the bullpen this offseason.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 22, 2007 -> 11:36 AM) We didnt keep Willie Harris, because he was bad. He was so bad, we signed a Japanese 2nd baseman, that they reviewed only tape on instead of making him the 2nd baseman. The only thing that Pods did in 05, was help keep the offense's head above water when Dye and Konerko decided to take a nap for the first two months. Congrats for that, and the walkoff. He sucks/is injured all the time now, and needs to go. Rowand sucked, everyone magically forgets when he hit .245, and 235 for the last two months of the season, and didnt hit at all in the playoffs. But because he dove and caught a few balls in Yankee Stadium, he will be forever enshrined in the whitesox HOF. They must of missed the number of times in September, when he broke the wrong way and almost blew a bunch of games when he would make mental errors in the field and miss catchable balls. Marte for those thinking that. Here is a guy who quit on his team in the middle of a playoff run, didnt disclose injury, and basically couldnt throw to lefties since he broke Chavez's hand. He pitches great when the heat isnt up, which is why he is so good for the pirates. Put that tin can on a contending team, and he will unravel again. Marte was pretty dominant before Ozzie came around. I think he's a quiet guy who like playing either in a pressure-free environment like Pittsburgh, or for a calm guy like Manuel. Its easy to criticize getting rid of Harris, but like you said he was bad. People forget he hit .156 for Boston last season and they let him go. Good for him making it back, but even if the Sox had kept him, if he played in Chicago in 2006 like he did in Boston, he would have been crucified. I don't understand a lot of the Iguchi hate. The guy hit one of the biggest home runs is Sox history, and has been pretty solid most of the time he's been here. His finger was really bothering him earlier, or his numbers probably would have been similar to the 2 past seasons.

I just read the Sox game notes. The 7-9 hitters are 3 for their last 45 in the White Sox line-up. The 7th spot is hitting .229 this season, the 8th spot .214 and the 9th spot .213. Pretty anemic.

QUOTE(gosox41 @ Jul 21, 2007 -> 10:30 PM) Then barring any trades for real OFer's, there's a good chance the Sox starting OF next year could be Fields in LF, Erstad in CF, and Sweeney/Mackowiack in RF with Owens the first back up OFer if Crede's back acts up an Fields has to go to 3B or when Estad gets injured. Bob There is no way KW will wind up with that line-up. They re-signed Buerhle, he will play to win. They will free up money to spend someway. If no one takes Contreras, Garland or Vazquez will be gone.

I really think Contreras has had issues with his back. Ever since he hurt it last year, he's gone from as dominant as anyone to pretty bad right now. Floyd isn't exactly a rookie. He had some success at the major league level in 2004 back when Magglio and CLee and Frank Thomas were still playing with the White Sox, but since then he's pitched 86 big league innings giving up 85 runs 23 homers 108 hits and 52 walks. There is a far better chance Contreras can at least figure something out to be mediocre than Floyd becoming mediocre.

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Jul 21, 2007 -> 05:28 PM) So, Larry Eustachy coached against Johnny Orr in a charity game at Iowa State today. I love Johnny Orr. He is hysterical. I met him once, he rolled about 25 dirty jokes off in about 2 minutes.

QUOTE(RME JICO @ Jul 21, 2007 -> 05:22 PM) A bunch of "Fireballers"! Also: Sisco 8.36 Prinz 8.10 Masset 7.09 Aardsma 6.40 MacDougal 6.23 It wasn't long ago when we thought guys like Marte and his 3.77 ERA was horrible. Now that's what Jenks is and he's the bullpen savior.

QUOTE(SoxFan77 @ Jul 21, 2007 -> 05:20 PM) Don't those always make the best 4th OF!?!?! Seriously.. Who are they going to put in the pen? Everyone KW has brought up or sent down this year just SUCKS. Other than 05.. has any of his pens been any good? Well KW the baseball genius he thinks he is, put together this crew of has beens and never weres. He was popping off about the organization's pitching depth in spring training. It is scary that as bad as most of these guys have been, when they get replaced, the replacement is worse. So it appears they did a pretty good job of picking their best staff at the beginning of the year.