Dick Allen

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 6, 2018 -> 08:14 AM) The president is, like, really smart I have actually mocked that a few times in this thread. But it is at least 5 times now I have heard or read him using those exact words.

If the plan for KC was to free up cash for Hosmer, Dayton Moore has either lost his mind or they are satisfied with their run and will be going to the old Cubs method of fielding a crappy team but keeping a fan favorite around . They weren't good enough with Hosmer, Cain, and Moustakas. How do they make their bullpen even worse and bring back one of these guys and think they have a shot? The sad reality is even if you get to the WS 2 years in a row, the small market teams can't keep their players. Sustained success is big boy only. One thing I guess Hahn mentioned in his conference call several times is that they expect Nate Jones to be good to go when the season starts.

The Sox have 12 OF on their 40 man. As soon as teams sign some more guys, outrighting a few of them will be pretty easy. I still don't know why a couple of them hav survived as long as they have survived.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 5, 2018 -> 04:32 PM) If the White Sox took on the full salaries of both Kazmir and McCarthy, that would be just under $30 million for 2018. Let me put it this way.... for $26 million, the White Sox got Luis Robert. It would have to be a pretty big return. Teams aren't going to give you the elite prospects for taking these guys and even if they did it would be less money in the bank to go after Machado if that is a real possibility at this point.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 5, 2018 -> 03:09 PM) The only issue I have with what you said is that the peripheral argument is weak, because you're not providing any evidence for that claim. You're saying that Soria must suck, otherwise the Royals wouldn't have traded him for so little. That might be true, but that doesn't invalidate evidence to the contrary. As I said, he was replacement level in 2016, his next worse season was 2015, trending downward, then 2017 age 33 season highest WAR in 7 years, best k-rate for a full season in 8 years. Age 34 projections have him very similar to 2016, replacement level. He gave up 1 homer last year. Previously HR had become a problem. That could rear it's ugly head in his new home park. If the White Sox were actually trying to win, the optimism wouldn't be so great, despite all these peripherals. We can all argue until the cows come home. I wouldn't want Soria on the mound if it was a game the White Sox had to win. And a lot would have to happen for that opinion to change.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 5, 2018 -> 02:43 PM) People tend to disagree when someone says something that is clearly contrary to the most recent available evidence. See, I don't see the evidence. His advanced stats were the worst of his career in 2016, just beating out his 2015. Last year they rebounded a bit as he kept the ball in the park, and suspiciously threw the ball harder during his age 33 season. His age 34 season projections seem to take him more toward the replacement level pitcher he was in 2016. Replacement level 34 year olds aren't too flippable.

QUOTE (Tony @ Jan 5, 2018 -> 02:32 PM) There are not 30 teams looking for a 33 year old RP making 8 million. That's false. You're arguing a small point made on this board because....well it's what you've done here for the last decade. If Soria is pitching well in July, the Sox could absolutely flip him to a team for a prospect better than Peter. The Sox could also throw money into the deal to sweeten the pot. If Soria sucks.....then he sucks and the Sox lost Jake Peter for him. Oh well. Right, I have no problem with the trade, but a lot of people got their panties in a bunch when Greg called a spade a spade and said Soria isn't so good. So talk about arguing a small point just because. I doubt anyone will give him credit when he turns out to be correct. It will just be of course he wasn't any good, that wasn't the point of the deal...

QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Jan 5, 2018 -> 02:19 PM) No. They’re trying to shred payroll and re-sign Hosmer. Paying $10 mil for a setup man does not work for their payroll. Soria isn’t the best reliever, but I can name 200 relievers who “sucked” more than Soria in 2017. Yes, but relievers are valuable and there are 30 teams looking for them. If he is a good bet to be well worth his money why did KC have to include one of their better relievers with him, and pay some money? It's pretty obvious not many teams think very highly of the guy.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 5, 2018 -> 02:02 PM) Just to be clear, the argument you're making is "Soria can't be good because if he was, the Royals wouldn't have traded him." The argument you're NOT making is "Soria is bad as evidenced by his peripherals." No. Teams trade good players all the time. They don't include good players and money for basically junk prospects if these players are as valued as some want to believe. I have no problem with the trade. I think it's a no brainer. I just think all the Soria optimism is misguided. The guy sucks. It's the reason why this trade was available to the White Sox.

QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Jan 5, 2018 -> 01:25 PM) Exactly! I was kind of kidding about that part, but it's ridiculous the guy was able to play at all once the complaints were filed. If he sucked, he would have been given the heave ho long ago. Every school does it. The Illini did it with Jamar Smith years ago. I don't think he actually played anymore for them, but that was only because he messed up again while suspended and on probation.

QUOTE (wrathofhahn @ Jan 5, 2018 -> 01:39 PM) Happens all the time teams are looking to cut salary of players inorder to direct resources to other needs or in the KC Royals case appear to sign a FA and get the numbers in budget. In any case I don't think with the cash considerations anyone thinks he is overpaid so why worry? It's a lottery ticket I feel some people are carrying on the conversation just for the sake of it. Noone is saying his peripherals are some guarantee he bounces back next year either all we are saying is it makes it worth the risk. Besides he wasn't even bad last year. Examples? If Soria was thought of as highly around MLB as he is on this board, not only would the Royals have been able to trade him and not eat money, they wouldn't have had to include a valuable piece with him. They had to do both.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 5, 2018 -> 12:12 PM) SNL's Superfans wasn't parody Smigel and Conan O'Brien came up with it. Conan was living in Chicago during the halcyon days of Ditka and the Bears.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 5, 2018 -> 11:56 AM) Yesterday I heard one person calling to make ditka team president. He has the passion. Meatball fans think guys who yell at players are the very best at running teams.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 5, 2018 -> 11:57 AM) Lol what? There’s no guarantee he’ll be good next year and that we’ll get something solid for him, but the possibility most definitely exists and the peripherals & velocity support that. Teams don't give away useful valuable pieces to dump a contract that is reasonable with a guy whose peripherals suggest will be halfway valuable. If Greg is pissed at the trade, I disagree with him. If he just thinks Soria sucks, he has a point. Anything you get from him is gravy, but chances are it won't be much.

QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Jan 5, 2018 -> 11:01 AM) https://deadspin.com/minnesota-center-reggi...-for-1821807664 Reggie Lynch of Minnesota suspended until 2020 because he's a serial rapist/assaulter. I'm shocked, SHOCKED, that a member of the Pitino family protected someone like that for so long, even allowing him to log a 11 pt, 12 reb, 7 block game against Illinois just this week. Of course they waited until after the Illinois game. The entire world, not just the referee community is against the Illini.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 5, 2018 -> 10:26 AM) How do you figure ANY of that? His peripherals in 2016 suggest he had bad homerun luck, but everything else was fine. There might be something else going on that's important, but if so, it certainly can't be gleaned from his peripherals. What are you referring to? And if he puts together a strong first half, given his affordable salary and team option, he'll absolutely bring back a significant return. I will say he will not get an organization top 20 guy back. Let's wager.

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Jan 5, 2018 -> 10:12 AM) So he blew the Royals 2017 season AND has the peripherals to suggest a bounceback year that could cause him to be a good flip candidate to get more prospects for the rebuild? Sounds great to me. This peripherals argument is weak. I look at his peripherals in 2016 and they suggest he is well on the road to done. Now his peripherals, like his traditional stats improve and suddenly he is a good flip candidate. The trade was fine, but lets not talk about him being a good flip candidate. A good flip candidate gets you something interesting back. This guy will get you maybe, if all goes well, a 26 year old in A ball who throws 100 and walks about 1 an inning.

QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Jan 5, 2018 -> 09:31 AM) So what you're saying is Greg is trashing Soria for having a really bad 2 weeks. Or you could throw out his first 10 innings and his K-Rate goes down to about 8.5 and his ERA goes up to 4.50. The price shows you what the league thinks. Maybe somehow he turns back the hands of time, but chances are he will not be very popular on Soxtalk in 2018 once games actually come around. So KC fans very well could be doing cartwheels they no longer have to see him in a Royals uniform. The trade does make sense for the White Sox, not because of Soria, but because of the other guy.

25 years ago today, a certain coach of a certain team from a certain city that begins with a C, ends in an O and has hicag in the middle, was canned by the beloved.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 5, 2018 -> 09:02 AM) Isn't your 3rd paragraph doing exactly what you say people should quit doing in the first? No. I am not trying to actually spin Soria is good, because strikeouts, and might be able to get something decent at the deadline.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 4, 2018 -> 06:59 PM) That’s fine, but then really don’t have a direction. Being a bottom third team with a bottom third farm is usually a recipe for disaster. I don't see where getting rid of their best asset for whatever they can get for him without holding out for something better, be it next week, next month, next year, gives them a better direction. If the Sox traded Q for whatever they could get last winter, the rebuild would be a little bit further back than what it is now.

I think people should quit giving Greg much crap about Soria. If he were so great, KC wouldn't have had to give up Alexander to get rid of the contract. Alexander might be a flash in the pan, Kelly Wunsch style, but he had some value. There's a pretty good chance the guy sucks, but from a White Sox point of view it makes sense to eat the money and gain at least another reliever as the paychecks for bullpen arms are rising very quickly.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jan 4, 2018 -> 06:50 PM) Kaep probably should be happy he's not playing. The brain injury thing is serious issue and surely he's set for life financially from his previous years in the league. He could have made a ton of money holding a clipboard on Sundays. Ask Mike Glennon.

They play 38 games vs. KC and Detroit. They aren't losing 100 unless a lot of things go really wrong. And no one will be happy even if they got the top pick.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jan 4, 2018 -> 06:45 PM) Soria is a horrific baseball pitcher, but he won't be with the Sox when they contend so no biggie. It will be annoying to see him pitch next season, however, on the South Side. Royals fans are dancing in the streets getting rid of Soria. I tend to agree with you. I thin he is pretty much done. He kept the ball in the park last year, but if he reverts to his 2016 form, it will be souvenir time in the bleachers. But worth the flier getting the lefty.