Dick Allen

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 4, 2016 -> 04:45 PM) Interesting take on MLB network just now - Robertson was measured as having the "longest stride" in the big leagues and when his fastball was 93 the long stride made it harder to pick up the ball, but if he were to lose a little in velocity in their opinion that could trigger a really dramatic dropoff. According to fangraphs, his fastball is as quick as ever.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 4, 2016 -> 04:11 PM) Note that the guys who were "white flag" traded were Navarro and Duke, neither of whom is obviously going to replace Ranaudo or Shields. Well maybe Shields. Navarro probably could have outpitched him. There are guys playing now that wouldn't be if they had a shot.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Sep 4, 2016 -> 04:09 PM) One does not pick up a James Shields because they wish to rebuild. They keep throwing him out there if they do. If they were in contention and he pitching like this, he would not be getting starts.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 4, 2016 -> 04:02 PM) Then we need to be happy with 3rd and 4th place finishes. Because sticking your fingers in your ears and pretending that injuries don't happen does not actually prevent injuries. Every single year there's a team like this. The Cardinals were banged up to hell and back last year and won 100 games. The Dodgers have basically lost their entire starting rotation this year. And of course you ignored the note about the Indians losing Brantley, some of their starters for short stints, and Byrd. But please, tell me again how the White Sox lost 20% fewer games to the DL this year than the Royals but the Royals and Indians are these payroll juggernauts and the White Sox can't compete with them financially. Whatever. There is no question the Sox need to be deeper. If you have no depth, injuries hurt more. But since the Sox waved the White flag, they re going to lose more games than they would have had they been in contention. Ranaudo and Shileds wouldn't be pitching, and most of these minor leaguers wouldn't be getting a shot. This right now is part of rebuilding, something supposedly many want but constantly complain about when these guys are in the line up.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 4, 2016 -> 03:53 PM) Well then I guess you make a strong case why we need to be happy with 4th place. Your argument is ridiculous and you know it, the White Sox can't compete with the Dodger financially, and that extends to the minor leagues.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Sep 4, 2016 -> 03:52 PM) And that payroll is not the main reason they withstand injuries. They have organizational depth. Heck, it was they who passed on Frazier,preferring Sox prospects. Petricka and Putnam are average at best relievers; Lawrie is avg or below at 2b; same with Avilia and Jackson. The Sox didn't exactly lose high talent. BS. They had a $249 million vs.. $114 million payroll advantage. If you don't think adding $135 million to the payroll won't increase depth, you are high. That doesn't even count the signing bonuses and penalties they take for international signings. And the reason they passed on Frazier was because they ha a 3B. And they traded Montas for Rich Hill. Hero worshipping. The current White Dox with half the roster AAA talent, should be your wet dream.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 4, 2016 -> 03:45 PM) The Los Angeles Dodgers lost Clayton Kershaw for what, 1/2 the season, and are still in 1st place? I never want to hear how losing Zach Putnam and Jake Petricka totally doomed this franchise while the Dodgers lost Kershaw for 1/2 the season and are still in 1st place. And he was only like 20% of what they've lost to injury. Good teams deal with injuries. The White Sox whine. Hell, the team that is going to win the AL Central lost their #3 hitter coming into the season for the entire year and had another OF get caught. And somehow, they had a good enough roster to overcome that. But we'll never match the Indians payroll, they're juggernaut. The Los Angeles Dodgers can also throw many around like no other team. While we all fret about the $20 million the Sox have to pay Shields the next 2 years, they can piss that away and no one thinks twice. It may be the dumbest comparison ever. Take away Kershaws $30 million and they still have a significantly higher payroll than the White Sox.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Sep 4, 2016 -> 03:23 PM) Preaching to the choir. But that will be a heavy, heavy excuse used by the FO. Really, you think the Sox should and could be be like the Dodgers? That may be the craziest thought ever.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Sep 4, 2016 -> 02:48 PM) Melky, Abreu Nd Frazier still battling. All with two out hits For the most part, the offense has been OK recently. What is killing them is 40% of the rotation and the amount of guys who should be in Charlotte in the bullpen.

QUOTE (Insp @ Sep 4, 2016 -> 02:30 PM) Why is Ranaudo still out there? The bullpen pitched forever last night. If they are going to leave these 2 dopes in the rotation, they need to split them up to give the bullpen a break. At least Abreu is back.

The back end of the Sox rotation makes one want Danks and Noesi back.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Sep 4, 2016 -> 02:00 PM) I don't think at this point Renaudo is a starting pitcher option in 2017. He is pretty bad. He was bad for Boston, bad for Texas, now bad for the Sox.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 4, 2016 -> 08:35 AM) Actually, another poster has warned us over and over again not to expect anything out of the 26th pick. Of course, Mike Trout was selected just after that. At this point, it's probably better to hold back the "reveal" for 2017, as selling Fulmer and Burdi as being like two new acquisitions will be a key element of the offseason marketing strategy. This is your chance...do you believe Burdi will end up with more career saves for the White Sox than David Robertson? When was Mike Trout selected? And of course you totally misinterpreted what I said about the pick. I never stated great players weren't on the board at that time, I went back through the actual 26 picks 25 years and picking a releiver who is actually good makes your pick better than most of the others. It was a point to people who say you don't draft relievers that high. No Deception Jomes has a career WAR almost as high as the last 25 #26 picks combined.

I think NU got screwed there. It wouldn't have been an issue if the WMU player knew the rules.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 1, 2016 -> 03:03 PM) What ought to concern is... What we saw in August is sort of how the White Sox are supposed to work right? Abreu putting up MVP numbers, Rodon Quintana and Sale all putting up ERAs under 3 for the month, production from the DH spot, normal numbers from Eaton, good numbers from Anderson, production from the catcher's spot, hell even a great 1/2 month from Garcia , he back 3 in the bullpen all present and healthy (Jones, Robertson, Jennings). And given all that, they still went 12-15 in the month. Fine, add in some extra bullpen depth and pretend no one gets hurt and that goes up to 13-14 wins...but man. Abreu's hitting like this and even then they're still a .500 team. L Leave out Duke was traded, Petricka and Putnam not there, Gonzalez hurt, 40% of the rotation a gas can...the starting 2B out. The starting CF out. If Gonzalez was around, a reliever or 2 healthy, and maybe Lawrie playing, the team's record probably wins a few more games. They were able to go 23-10 at one point.

If your front office can't build a contending team around Sale and Q and their salaries, how can you think for a minute they could build one with the proceeds from their sales?

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Sep 1, 2016 -> 07:13 AM) Yup, that's something I came to realize over the past 10-15 years. Despite all the stereotypes of Wrigley, the baseball experience is so much better at Wrigley than at the Cell. Fans just pay more attention to the game and are more into the big moments. And it's not just because they are good now, I've seen it during the down years too. I think fans everywhere pay less attention to a game or to a concert or any event than ever before, people now have to take 1000 pictures or video missing out, IMO, on a lot of the experience. But Wrigley's reputation was well earned. I was at a Cubs/Sox game there a few years ago. We were in the second row of the infield upper deck box. There was a guy standing in the front row just talking to his buddies, paying no attention. One of my friends had his view block. He is a Cubs fan and a little short on patience. He said hey buddy what is the score. The guy said how should I know? Also any pop up sounds like a home run because a lot of the lower deck seats you can't see the ball in the air. I live closer to Wrigley,but unless someone invites me, I have zero desire to attend. When they get all the renovations done, I will probably go. It might cost the price of my 27 game package for 1 game.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Sep 1, 2016 -> 05:12 PM) 4 straight years of sub .500 to championship? That would be....impressive When the Twins won the WS in 1987 they were below .500 in 6 of the 7 previous seasons. The only time they weren't they were 81-81. The game is different, but when JR bought the team, they didn't have much, and they became pretty good pretty quickly, and that was before 10 teams made the playoffs. He may be eyeing something like that, although I don't totally buy Heymans report. The Sox don't want everyone to know if they are tearing it down until it is obvious.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Sep 1, 2016 -> 04:06 PM) All of the bolded has been true for a few seasons now. The plans executed to address those needs continue to fail. Maybe just maybe this management team of Williams and Hahn might be better at a rebuild than they are at figuring out a successful "All In" plan. There is nothing to suggest that. I think they should go. But when you screw up but still have Sale and Q you are OK, and still have a chance. If you screw up when you trade those guys, you have nuclear bombed your organization.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Sep 1, 2016 -> 02:17 PM) So what's your plan exactly? Sale is as good as gone after the 2019 season. How would you build a contender in this three year window? You keep rejecting the rebuild it route, I'd love to hear your "go for it" plan. The problem is, I have no idea what is possible with Sale or Quintana. They wanted Jackie Bradley Jr. as part of the package. Could they get him in the offseason? But, if I was to trade one of those guys or both, at least part of the return is established major league players. Melky, Frazier, and Lawrie playing for a contract usually works to the teams advantage during the season. They need a starting catcher. Another OF who can hit, maybe a 1B that can at least make Abreu DH once in while. Another reliever or 2. Maybe another back end starter to throw into the mix. And the position players they get, have to be able to hit. It's a lot, but IMO if they are really going to go for it, they have to really go for it. Not hoping someone comes through. They have to be prepared for someone to get hurt or to suck unexpectedly. But trading everybody and getting prospects can set you up to be bad for a really long time. It's not like these other rebuilt teams had several good players they just turned into a bunch of can't miss prospects. Most of them just got really bad and had no choice.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Sep 1, 2016 -> 02:06 PM) So the play is to pseudo compete for the next few years until anything of value has been sapped of its worth. That should work out well. We can ditch that pesky 1st round pick in 2017 as it wont be protected and get some 30ish NL player to take us to the promised land. When was the last time we had a winning record against our division again. I remember the typical formula to win a division is to actually beat divisional opponents. So whats the plan to address that. Sprinkle some dust on what we have and hope it gets better. Or run a few plan B's out there after the Plan A's sign elsewhere. Its simple. We dont have a plan. We just roll the dice and hope that one time we wind up with the correct amount of momentum, luck and regression from the rest of the pack. yeah, trading their best players for prospects will definitely fix that. The only thing it will do is guarantee the people who love to tell you how long it's been since the White Sox have been to the playoffs, will have a guarantee of the same gripe for many more years. I will admit, that would satisfy several here.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Sep 1, 2016 -> 12:30 PM) The Cubs have 10 players with 2+ WAR seasons. Three of them were free agents, two were draft picks (both top 10), and the remaining five were acquired via trade. Why can't we take the Cubs' path? Even with potential downturns in attendance, we have enough fixed income to support a $90M+ payroll and could definitely be players in the epic 2018/19 free agent class. For one, the Arrieta trade was more luck than anything else. The Sox tried to trade for him, but Crain couldn't pass physically. And we don't have the Sox future GM handling that position for another team willing to ship them their top guy. A lot has to go right. Even with Larry Himes, the Sox wanted Mike Harkey, the Cubs took him, so they had to settle on Jack McDowell. They wanted Jeff Jackson, the Phillies took him, so they had to pick Frank Thomas. The Cubs had needed a 3B since they traded Santo, they for some reason took Ty Griffin. The Sox chose Robin next. One or 2 of these go the other way, who knows how much longer it takes. The Sox have a decent core. It's just fairly small and once you get away from the core, very mediocre, and that is being generous. It just isn't realistic to think so many trades could work out as perfectly as they have for the Cubs.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Sep 1, 2016 -> 12:20 PM) The Cubs didn't start their rebuilding until 2012, they were simply a bad team "going for it" in 2010 & 2011. Their rebuild took three years to complete. The same applies to the Astros, who started in 2011 and took four years to complete. These are your comps for the White Sox, especially if we sell our cost-controlled talent. I hate the idea of throwing away three or four seasons as much as the next guy, but I hate the idea of being stuck in MLB hell another 10 years even more so. So like the team that hasn't won a playoff game since 2007. And once you get rid of Sale and/or Quintana, they are gone forever and acquiring something similar is easier said than done, especially considering you probably won't be in a position to give someone $200 million. If it all goes right, like it did in the late 80s with the Sox, it can be done in 3 or 4 years. But a lot has to go right. I really wonder where the Cubs would be if Bryant was an Astro and they took Appel. I know some will say Appel was considered the #1 guy, but that was a huge blunder. I doubt they would be so sympathic if it was the White Sox choosing #1. I do think the Sox may trade one of them, get major and minor leaguers back, and still try to win with a different mix.

It took the Cubs 5 years of averaging 90+ losses to rebuild. The Astros took 6. The Twins are in year 5 of 6 at 90+, they did win 83 last year. Those, I would guess, "are done properly". The decades of droughts like KC and Pittsburgh, not so good. I can see why JR doesn't want to do it. If he isn't going to do it, he has to up the payroll and not depend on J-Roll.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Aug 31, 2016 -> 03:08 PM) ESPN reports the team that claimed him was only really interested in blocking him from getting to another team. That makes me think Twins, based on the public knowledge that the White Sox have/had interest. Why would they claim him to keep him from the White Sox in September?