Dick Allen

This is slightly more than it cost for Paulino, so not a bad gamble, although he really sucked. At the very least it shows they really weren't counting on Turner being able to step right into the rotation.

The Bulls are only a game and a half away from being in the lottery.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 8, 2016 -> 08:18 PM) How or why would Dye and AJ not be on that list? El Duque? For the White Sox, the only players with a bounceback to hope for are Cabrera and LaRoche, in terms of their prior careers. Including Jacob Turner's really pushing the definition. He's had one career year with a war of around 2. How and why would be answered if you looked at their 2004 seasons, and for El Duque, he wasn't so good for the White Sox except for 1 inning.

QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 8, 2016 -> 03:16 PM) How do we know the Sox weren't lying at Soxfest with regards to their plans, and they actually do have absolutely no money to spend to upgrades? I would love to be wrong, but I would have done the same thing if I was Hahn and dealt with the angry fan base coming into that weekend. If he simply said "we're done, no upgrades as we're at our budget", that would have created more animosity. I doubt he was lying. Too much info tying them to these guys. What we don't know are the offers. The thing that was mentioned was the 3 year limits, and Hahn profusely denied that being correct. Nobody has signed Fowler or Desmond or Jackson. So it's just not the White Sox. Apparently, either their demands are still too high or every team is out of money.

QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 8, 2016 -> 03:01 PM) When you're hoping for 7 pretty important players to rebound...you aren't a very good team. http://m.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article/163...-in-2016-season Pods, Cotts, Politte, Crede, Contreras, Garland, Hermanson. 7 needed a pretty big rebound in 2005 as well.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Feb 8, 2016 -> 12:49 PM) Welcome to the reality that was being a White Sox fan circa 1986-1988, when pondering answers to these questions was all too real. Jerry Reinsdorf obviously had no trouble dragging the fan base through that torment while casting a black cloud over the franchise during that time period. But it was a means to an end for he and the investors, because it made them ultimately very wealthy in the end. It didn't, however, translate into turning the franchise into a sustainably winning one for the fans, which, therein lies the problem. Time for a new owner. What does yet another diatribe against Jerry Reinsdorf have to do with this particular thread?

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Feb 8, 2016 -> 11:34 AM) Jerry has definitely made a ton of $$ on this deal, the real crime is in how that money has been re-invested into the franchise. The Sox perennially rank as one of the teams that spend the least on amateur talent. That has opened up a bit since the new CBA and pools were implemented but they still are near the bottom. The difference between what JR has and other teams have done is that he got a sweetheart deal for himself and his investors rather than for the franchise. Tampa's lease is up in 2028, its not going to stop them from moving. It won't stop the next owner that is serious about being competitive from moving the Sox either. So JR got a sweetheart deal, but if the next owner is serious about being competitive, he or she would need to break that sweetheart deal? What would they do, go some place and spend hundreds of millions of dollars to build a new stadium? It makes no sense. For one thing, the team makes money, and will make more in a couple of years. For another, they have a sweet deal. They aren't breaking it to spend more money elsewhere, and also get a smaller TV contract.

QUOTE (Doc Edwards Shot @ Feb 8, 2016 -> 09:53 AM) There has been a lot of conversation over the years about the time in the 1980s when Jerry was threatening to move the Sox to Tampa if he didn't get the city and state of IL to pay the bulk of the cost of the construction of "new" Comiskey Park (now U.S. Cellular Field). If this were to ever happen again and the Sox actually moved like the St. Louis Rams are currently doing, what would you do? Would you continue to follow the Sox remotely via a new TV premium package? Would you switch to some other team? Would you do the unthinkable and start following the Cubs since they would be the lone remaining team in the city? I don't know what I would do other than take a little time off from baseball to think about it - kind of like a grieving widower who would need some time before starting to date again. I'd probably become a Brewers fan.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 8, 2016 -> 09:17 AM) Let's say they are at their budget limit, just for argument's sake. How would they expect to get even better bargains or have more resources this time next year? It seems the only way is for this year's team to actually make the playoffs. If they don't, they're back in the same situation with even less negotiating leverage with more teams holding more dollars/revenue chasing fewer assets. I can just see it...now that Danks and LaRoche are off the books, there won't be many good fits left for the White Sox to bid on. And, from the rumors flying around, the Jays are already trying to extend Bautista and Encarnacion, leaving Colby Rasmus and Carlos Gomez as two of the top five hitters on next year's market, along with Cespedes, who I'm sure everyone will agree we likely won't be able to afford. There will always be players to add and trades that can be made. It was written on this board the White Sox had zero chance this offseason to improve their offense without trade Quintana. It appears they have been able to do it. As long as you are willing to pick up money one way or another, you will be able to acquire desirable players.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Feb 8, 2016 -> 08:45 AM) LMAO! Oh Dick, sometimes I think YOU'RE a figment of my imagination, because I can't believe how many times you jump into a conversation and completely take it off topic just for the sake of taking the opportunity to throw one of your uninteresting insults into the mix. But that's ok, you're having fun, I guess, but now let's see if we can't reel you back into what we were actually talking about before you entered the fray. If you'll notice, Dick, the topic of this thread has to do with the potential acquisition of one Dexter Fowler by the White Sox. Two regular posters here seem to think that perhaps an obstacle to acquiring Mr. Fowler's services are current budget constraints that may be in place. I happen to think that's not the case, based on "actual words" said by the General Manager at Soxfest. Actual words, Dick, not one's imagined. Quoth Mr. Hahn: “Let me make something really clear: There is absolutely no hardline, dogma, limit on contract terms with free agents. The reason we didn’t sign any of the hitters that thus far have signed elsewhere at the end of the day is not about contract term limitations. We had numerous conversations, with various parameters, various structures, right up until the day or the day before these players wound up choosing their ultimate destinations.” Now, what I took from that statement is that Mr. Hahn was insisting we were making competitive offers to those available premium free agents at that point in time. And my point is, any competitive offer we would have made for any of the big FA outfielders would be much larger than anything we would remotely offer Fowler. So if the Sox were able to make said offers to the Cespedes, Gordon, and perhaps Upton, then obviously the team isn't operating under these alleged budget constraints, as "rumored", or else they wouldn't have made those offers. Thus, we may be negotiating with Fowler for a deal that the team seems to believe is more reflective of the guy's actual market value, but not because the cupboard is bare and we're down to our last pennies. Yes, an article from Soxfest saying he needs to be creative fitting into constraints has nothing to do with budget matters. Be real. For a guy saying mentioning budget is stupid because no one really knows, you seem to think you really know. I would imagine the budget to sign Dexter Fowler isn't the same as it is to sign Alex Gordon, but that is just me. I'm sure if you were looking at a house and was willing to spend x amount on it, if that was sold to someone else, you would spend that same amount on a lesser house just because. Hahn's quote about contract term was in response to the rumors the White Sox were only willing to go 3 years, not the dollar amount. If there was no limit on dollar amount, they would just sign anyone they wanted. All teams have limits. Noun 1. term of a contract - the period of time during which a contract conveying property to a person is in effect

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Feb 7, 2016 -> 09:45 PM) Was Rick Hahn lying at Soxfest when he said there were no financial or contractual restraints when they were negotiating with the big FAs, right up until the day those players signed with the teams that they did? Because whatever "budget constraints" you and SS2K5 imagine are in place today would have been place a few weeks ago when those players all upped up the way they did. To listen to you and SS2K5 go on and on about these alleged budget constraints that, unless you are an employee of the White Sox Finance dept., you would have zero way of knowing, is ridiculous. Unless you're suggesting Hahn is a bold-faced liar, you can probably put all of this budget nonsense to rest, once and for all. From the Tribune at Soxfest. All the quotes you pin on Hahn seem to be figment of your imagination. Hahn said he is in constant contact with Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf about the flexibility remaining in the club's budget and acknowledged he needs to be creative in structuring potential contracts to fit within the constraints.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Feb 7, 2016 -> 03:30 PM) The thing is, this team has been an assembled squad of injury prone players. And we knew that before. Hell, I've gone on record as saying it for years when Derrick first got injured. Noah's been injury prone. Taj has been. Deng has been. Kirk definitely had been. They wanted to place the blame on Thibs for running guys into the ground, but the reality is, they assembled a team full of brittle players, didn't let Thibs hire his own health team when he became coach, and proceeded to watch guys get injured at key times and blamed it on him. I have been saying the same thing. They tried to blame injuries on the taskmaster for playing them too much and practicing too hard, but the same guys keep getting hurt. Apparently Thibs was supposed to treat these guys like Star Wars toys and never take them out of the package. The problem is if these guys play, they are going to get hurt. They aren't going to suddenly be playing 82 games a year. Gar said they have a championship roster. That is all you need to know.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Feb 7, 2016 -> 03:16 PM) Enough of the picking at one another. How about we discuss the issue on the merits? Thad clearly has a point. JR held the City/State hostage in order to get his way. Other teams have used this as a model. That was a bit dirty of him. Case closed. Move on. Why is securing another offer considered dirty? If Rick Hahn is talking about making a trade, would it be considered dirty to play other offers off of each other? I could maybe see it as perhaps dirty if he really had no intention of leaving, ball the accounts I ever read where the White Sox were gone if this stadium wasn't built. Ironiically JR did build his own stadium a couple of years later at around the same cost. Of course he was only in 50%.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Feb 6, 2016 -> 01:50 PM) Wrong again. Quite wrong, actually. Name one other stadium that is as architecturally flawed as was the new Comiskey Park where they built an upper deck with the same obnoxious incline AND complicated matters by putting the opening to that deck down at the base, vs. somewhere in the middle. Talk about discrimination. One might infer they didn't want any elderly and/or obese people sitting in the upper rows given how difficult it would be to get up there, and never mind any up and down trips needed to go the bathroom, etc. Reinsdorf admits he screwed up big time on that upper deck, which would explain why he ended up lopping off about nine rows back in the early 2000s. Has that been standard, too, Dick Allen? Has any other team gone in and taken a buzz saw to their upper deck and literally taken out a third of it? No? Yeah, didn't think so. Hence, the rather wrong nature of you claiming the new Comiskey/USCF upper deck is somewhat par for the course. After reading this post, I think the vast majority would think your obsession with Jerry Reinsdorf is very unhealthy. All new upper decks are high and far from the field. If they aren't as inclined, they will be even farther from the field. Go to a newer stadium and take a picture from the 10th row of their top deck and take it from the 10th row at UsCF, and then tell us other than Jerry Reinsdorf is responsible, why USCF is worse. Just for fun I googled Miller Park upper deck. Tell me why that is better than what Sox fans have.

QUOTE (WBWSF @ Feb 6, 2016 -> 07:38 AM) Always remember the following: 1) The City of Chicago offered to build a new baseball stadium for the White Sox in the South Loop at Roosevelt and Clark. 2) JR turned down the offer and wanted to build a stadium in Addison/DuPage county. Keep in mind that the stadium would of been built with tax payer money on land owned by JR. 3) When the stadium in Addison didn't work out, the City of Chicago offer in the south Loop was off the table. 4) The State of Illinois agreed to build the new park at its present location. If they hadn't agreed to that the White Sox would have moved to Florida. 5) I've tried to simplify this as much as possible but JR should have taken the original offer from the City of Chicago and had the new stadium built in the South Loop. EVERYBODY would have been better off. The White Sox franchise, the White Sox fans and the City of Chicago. Its bad enough the stadium was built where it is now, JR is responsible for the miserable upper deck which nobody likes and has ruined the park. The lower deck is wonderful and the upper deck sucks. 6) Sometime, somewhere and someday the White Sox will have a new owner. The new owner is going to inherit a franchise that has a stadium in a location that is not popular and a stadium with a lousy upper deck. It will be interesting to see if the new owner tries to get another stadium for the White Sox or if he renews the lease when it expires in 2027. 7) Looking back at the whole situation I wish JR would not have bought the White Sox. I wish DeBartolo would have purchased the team. The miserable upper deck is standard at every park built the last 25 years.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Feb 5, 2016 -> 10:18 PM) Out of bullets again, eh? Well that didn't take long. Dick Allen? Not out of bullets. You are just being irrational. Are you pissed off at JR for not picking up the tab for the World Series parade? It amazes me how you blame JR for everything.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Feb 5, 2016 -> 09:47 PM) I don't think anyone is questioning Reinsdorf's "competence" as a business leader. His hardcore tactics we've discussed in his threats and blackmail to move the team away from Chicago if the state didn't put in place an agreement that guaranteed he and his investors extraordinary wealth is evidence of that. He is still a bad guy. A very bad guy, as it relates to being the owner of this team we love. The fact he had the audacity to approach the Illinois legislature and pull them away from the important jobs we elect them to do to work on putting together a deal whose only goal was to make he and his owners rich beyond their wildest dreams was purely disgraceful. Don't you think all of the revenue raised through this deal to make Jerry Reinsdorf a very rich man could have been better spent elsewhere for the greater good of the state? No, make all of the excuses you want for this guy, but he has been bad for the White Sox brand since the day he arrived on our doorstep in 1981. Very much looking forward to the next ownership group. LMAO. LMAO.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Feb 5, 2016 -> 08:40 PM) LMAO! Why would your apparent hero Jerry Reinsdorf be the "bad guy" in this situation? Ooooohhhhhh, I dunno. The threats to move to Tampa if all of his greedy demands weren't met is the first thing that leaps to mind. I don't suppose you could consider Uncle Jer & his shameful co-owners AND the elected officials to all be the bad guys in what went down when this deal was made. Seems pretty obvious that all the major players failed either Sox fans, taxpayers, or both, don't you think? Then you let him leave. He even said the Governor told him to get a new city so he could use it as leverage. The White Sox, like every other company, try to get what they can from the state and the city. They have an entity that creates revenue for the city and state.The question would be has the state made their money back with this deal. What has the tax on sales at the ballpark, team employees, even visiting players added up to over the years? How many are employed paying taxes instead of unemployed collecting welfare? The state is probably still in the red I would guess. I am totally against publicly funded stadiums, but if a team can get one, they aren't the bad guy. do you resent Boeing for the sweetheart deal they received to move their headquarters , even though not many jobs to Chicago? Do you resent the Bears who basically doubled their franchise value with a Soldier Field rehab that is using the same tax the White Sox stadium uses? If you held getting a deal from the state or city against companies, you would have a lot of conflict every time you went out to eat, or buy some clothes, or put gas in your tank. Reinsdorf did what any competent business leader would do. He got his sweetheart deal both with the stadium and the lease, and then he even got the lease renewed.

But why would Jerry Reinsdorf be the bad guy? Wouldn't the elected officials that are supposed to have your best interests in mind be the one's at fault? It isn't a good deal for the taxpayers. The argument is it is a hotel tax so out of towers are really picking up the tab, but still it is money that could be used elsewhere. they were able to make renovations at no cost to the taxpayers other than those pissed off about a name change.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Feb 5, 2016 -> 02:45 PM) Schwarber also has a .143 BA in those 61 plate appearances. I'm not saying Schwarber will never face another LHP again but Maddon does well at extracting the most from his players when he fills out the lineup card everyday. Not trying to come off as a cubs Homer but Maddon is a good manager and knows his players. Just giving credit where its due, even if it pains me to say it. I am not referring to you here because you aren't the only one that feels that way about Maddon. But look at these numbers. Schwarber and LaRoche each can't hit LHP. Maddon knows his players and only had Schwarber face lefties 61 times in 69 games played. LaRoche played 127 games and faced LHP 94 times, even less percentage-wise than Schwarber, but Robin was an idiot.

If the Cubs are already prepared to make Soler a platoon and give him 120-140 plate appearances a season since MLB pitching is 80% right handed, then what in the world were they thinking when they thought they could get a frontline pitcher for him?

QUOTE (knightni @ Feb 5, 2016 -> 12:21 PM) I went when I was about 10, but the last 7 years afterwards, it was getting downright gross and dangerous-appearing to many people. I was given a coffee table book that was about Comiskey Park in 1977. The park looked a lot nicer in 1990 than in 1977. It was unreal how rundown it was back then.

And for the Cubs, it's not just about payroll this year. Their roster is going to get really expensive really quickly if everything goes as planned.

QUOTE (shipps @ Feb 5, 2016 -> 10:44 AM) Same reasons why he makes more sense to the Sox too. I like Austin Jackson. The problem is his agent. I would venture to guess to get him to sign right now you would have to give him a contract a lot more lucrative than any of us would imagine.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Feb 5, 2016 -> 10:35 AM) Good call on Hamel. He makes 9M this year with a '17 option for 10M with a 2M buyout. So if the cubs could save an additional 8M next year if they buyout Hamel. I doubt they buy him out though, 10M is pretty cheap for what he gives the cubs. Theo needs the DH. No way they bring back Fowler without a trade. They have Soler, and now Baez playing the OF with Schwarber and Heyward. They don't have a spot for Fowler. Even Cubby boy Kaplan knows the Cubs are out. Tried to use the Rangers as the Sox competition, but they aren't adding payroll either apparently. Hahn isn't going to bid against himself. Fowler needs someone to get injured or he is probably going to have to settle for something a lot lower than he was figuring.