Dick Allen

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 16, 2015 -> 12:40 PM) Gee, I've written of posts referring to both him and Jeremy Haber, but apparently you missed those. ONCE AGAIN, YOU'RE SAYING THAT KW IS PROFICIENT WITH ADVANCED METRICS. Where is this coming from? Because every team in baseball now has 2-3 guys in their front office who concentrate on that area...not to mention all the guys hired from Baseball America, Baseball Prospectus, fangraphs, etc.? As Balta has pointed out over and over and over again, the pitching isn't the problem over the last decade, it's the hitting. How is KW using advanced metrics to bring better hitters into the organization? KW has had the advanced stats guys there since day 1, you are the one insinuating he has had none, and that none of the things he did, which includes a World Championship team, use advanced numbers, which is total BS. Balta failed to mention that the years where the White Sox were terrible, which contributed to about 80 games below .500, their pitching was awful. When the won the WS, the thing everyone wants, they were a top pitching team, and middle of the road to below average overall offensively.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 16, 2015 -> 12:36 PM) http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/pitching/_/le...ric/order/false 29th out of 56 vs. 47th for John Danks. Okay. WHIP. Ventura 31st, Danks 54th out of 56. 4.68 ERA with supposedly the best defense in baseball behind him. Is he living up to his talent level? Where is the leadership?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 16, 2015 -> 12:28 PM) Examples? In the last 7-8 years (after the Quentin/Ramirez/Danks/Floyd acquisitions), there have been just a few excellent players added to the organization. There's Chris Sale, Abreu and Rodon kind of fell into their laps. If you can convince anyone that KW used advanced stats to identify either one of those players...well, I'll believe it when I see it. Earlier, you asked me how much time I've spent playing sports. How much time has Rick Hahn? I'm not the issue to be solved for the White Sox front office, it's talent identification and development that are on trial here. I don't know why he would need to prove he used advanced stats to sign Jose Abreu. He was the one that got him. Put here is a guy that has been with the Sox for 27 years who apparently you have never heard of. http://www.csnchicago.com/white-sox/white-...ball-operations

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 16, 2015 -> 12:21 PM) A minute ago you said only talent counted. The only thing that matters is what Ventura does the 30-32 times per season he takes the mound. Put all the links on here from the fluff kc.com for everyone to read. You were the one that mentioned the Royals, as you do daily. I could give you the links to numerous articles, but you've already made up your mind so there's no point in even trying because I'm sure you wouldn't read them and would continue to make this about the Royals and not the White Sox...which is yet another distraction from the real issue. I said performance, it's spelled a little differently and has a different definition but ....And so far Ventura has performed a lot more like John Danks than a talented guy who supposedly has all these terrific leaders doing a great job showing him the way.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 16, 2015 -> 12:17 PM) If there's this continuous process of improvement on the part of KW and Rick Hahn...then why hasn't ANYTHING been done about 2B or the catching position? About John Danks? If he wouldn't have wasted all that "small change" money on Keppinger, Downs and Bonifacio, we could just eat that contract and move on. KW once said that he dreamed of going out and winning another World Series...of taking the city away from the Cubs, etc. I'm not sure where you get the idea he's working harder than ever, because some of the complacency (and hubris) that affected Ozzie as manager has got into the bloodstream of Williams as well. He's gotten stale and the game has passed him by, the whole revolution of advanced data and analysis just isn't his thing. I don't like KW, but you again are writing fiction. You may actually want to do some research. KW has been using advanced stats well before you started using the ESPN.com numbers as gospel.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 16, 2015 -> 12:09 PM) Gee, no, I've never played sports before, lmao. Many White Sox insiders have noted time and time again that the team was never quite the same after the losses of Rowand, Everett and eventually Juan Uribe and Mark Buehrle. Yes, we've heard time and time as well that the 1970's Yankees players hated most of their teammates but they came together and won because they had the most talent, blah blah blah. Well, the fact of the matter is that there's a TON of parity in MLB today...and when the margin of talent differentiation is lowered, leadership becomes a more important factor in a team's success. Explain the Royals' treasure trove of leaders' terrific job with Yordano Ventura.

QUOTE (DashFan @ Jun 16, 2015 -> 11:30 AM) Dick, you make some valid points but I also think that pointing to the argument with Eaton and one earlier in the season with Sale is really cherry picking. You could just as easily pick moments that I identified that represented a lack of urgency. I don't think that's what we are looking for. Eaton being upset over playing time is one thing. I want to see guys a little more upset over the season going down the tubes. I want Eaton to say that playing time has to be earned. If everybody on this team wants to play so bad I want the coaching staff to remind them they need to earn that playing time a little more often too. I was kind of bothered that Eaton was so outspoken and whiny about being benched. This thread is about veteran leadership, and it is ripping the White Sox and praising the Royals. Yet there is Ventura on the Royals, he of the multiple ejections, a suspension, John Danks' stats, why is that good leadership? People got mad at Sale and Samardjiza for their roles in the fight, so damned if you do, damned if you don't. I just think a lot of people are taking liberties with Robin Ventura's personality, and believing they know exactly what goes down in the clubhouse, and with meetings with Hahn and KW. KW is still there, like him or hate him, one thing he isn't and wouldn't tolerate is being "lax". The White Sox are just playing lousy baseball. Sometimes the reason a team sucks is as simple as that.

QUOTE (DashFan @ Jun 16, 2015 -> 10:57 AM) We don't get to see everything that goes on behind the scenes. We get glimpses through comments in the media and a brief view into the personalities of the players and how they behave in the dugout. The lack of urgency and overall malaise this team has matches the personalities and even some of the comments the players have made to the media. Dick, you don't think performance is tied to intangibles, and it's your right to believe that. I would argue that it does and it's visible not just with the Royals but with other teams throughout the league who are doing well. I don't think that difference in overall energy starts with performance, I think it starts with the mentality of the team and it may be too late to change that this season with this particular cast of characters. Sure there are some, but one thing is we don't know what goes on behind the scenes. When you want to believe Robin is totally lax, you ignore the shouting matches reported with Sale. You ignore the dust up Parent had with Eaton just the other day. The team is deflated. There is no question about that. Tampa was a disaster. Last night was a disaster. Before that, they seemed to be coming around a bit. Of course this has happened several times before. The lax part just isn't true. The Royals were losing more games than they were winning. Again, I think leaders are leaders. If the exact same dynamic was occurring in the clubhouse if the Sox were 10 games over as is occurring now, these guys would be considered great leaders. We don't know what goes on in any clubhouse, and the snippets we do get suggest it is far from the lax country club atmosphere apparently someone wants to make basing it on a W-L record and a manager that doesn't scream at players in the dugout.

Didn't Eaton get into it with Parent the other day? Yeah, totally lax.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 16, 2015 -> 10:35 AM) Once again, obfuscation. Obfuscation. Obfuscation. Why don't you address the question, then...which is that there APPEARS to be a lack of immediacy or sense of urgency from this team. How do you explain this team getting absolutely hammered by opponents in the early innings? If it's not leadership, it's not preparation, it's not coaching...then what is it? All the White Sox players are "mentally weak" and the front office doesn't know how to put together a cohesive and proverbial "sum of all the parts is greater than the individual numbers" team? With Ventura, I should also add Mark Guthrie...who always serves as his "unofficial" translator for post-game interviews. How do you know there is a lack of urgency? Did you read it on a message board? The fact is, your favorite team and model organization hasn't been all that great the last couple of months. I guess their leadership or coaching or something must be lacking. The leadership crap is just like the chemistry argument. Konerko was a great leader in 2005. When the team is bad in 2013, where is the leadership. You can have great leaders, that doesn't mean you will win more games than you lose. Have you ever even played a baseball game or any game for that matter? Does the team with the best coach usually win? Or is it the team with the best leaders? Or is it the team with the best players? Or is it the team with the best performers? I'll go with the last one.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 16, 2015 -> 10:18 AM) I think the reason it's working pretty well (despite the loss of James Shields) for the Royals is that you do have a pretty much perfect mixture of youth and veterans. Obviously, Infante's not playing very well (probably the worst overall 2B in the AL), but each clique of players has a ringleader, like we saw in 2005. With the Latin players, it's Salvador Perez and now Kendrys Morales policing Escobar and especially Yordano Ventura. As much as Hosmer and Moustakas are hated by many, there's the steadying presence of Alex Gordon who arrived as a regular 2-3 years earlier and gets respect as the "veteran" of the group, the vanguard of that first wave of prospects. Gordon, from all reports, work as hard as Juan Pierre on his game, always the first to arrive and the last to leave and never satisfied with all the elements of his game. Then you have Lorenzo Cain doing his own thing and bringing a certain amount of swagger and confidence (just like Torii Hunter in his prime years with the Twins, but even this season again) to the entire organization with his bold style of play. So just in their starting line-up, they have four really strong leaders, and that's not even counting Hosmer and Moustakas, who have big and arrogant/confident personalities as well. What players in our starting line-up match that? Eaton? Abreu is about as bland as Ventura. Expecting Alexei to be a leader? We might as well watch paint dry. Avi kind of has that playful, big teddy bear personality, is a jokester and prankster, but there just aren't enough position players who can be counted on right now. Catcher is perhaps the most important position on the field and we have Tyler Flowers...who is having a hard enough time for the last two years holding his position to be considered a leader. Beckham has a personality, but he's failed so many times offensively he can't be the leader except in granting interview requests, and Conor is even more boring and vanilla than both Ventura and Abreu somehow. Last year it was cute, this year it's symptomatic of the overall team malaise. Then there's the growing disappointment with Samardzija's performance as well as his leadership abilities (so far). Very little out of LaRoche and Cabrera's almost non-existent. This is all a bunch of BS. You don't know the leadership structure of either the White Sox or Royals. Abreu bland, Kendrys Morales policing everyone? LMAO. Get real.

QUOTE (shipps @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 05:25 PM) I am sure its already been discussed in here but how the hell is it that all the Royals are leading these ASG votes? I didn't realize there was a massive Royal nation out there. I would guess someone created some automated program. If they were smart, they would also be voting for all Phillies.

QUOTE (flavum @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 02:53 PM) Did you hesitate a little before you hit "add reply"? No.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 02:43 PM) So the Padres have no issue firing their manager when s*** goes bad. But we have to sit here and keep the status quo because that's been working out so well. I dont get it. You want to send some sort of message that's a good start. The Sox had a different manager the last 3 games. Didn't seem to help.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 02:19 PM) How long does he have to be this bad before we use that term? 4 months? 6? How much money would you like to put on him being worth 4+ fWAR over his full contract, which would be a significant overpay for that production level? As long as there is no big DL stint, I'd put a lot of money on that. Of course, your previous posts suggest he will never even be replacement level again.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 02:10 PM) And now he has the worst ISO in all of baseball. From 80th place last year in all of baseball to dead last. He has hit into a lot of bad luck, and has been bad when not doing that. It happens. To think he has nothing left and the numbers he has now is basically his ceiling is something the people certain of this will never actually put money on.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 12:36 PM) Here's the problem with that statement...where exactly are we going to get position players otherwise? We're regularly drafting pitchers at the top of our draft. We traded away position players to get a pitcher this year. When we sign position players we are spending high dollar amounts to get guys towards the end of their career. We keep saying "draft and develop pitching and trade it for hitting". Don't we actually have to do that at some point? Put it this way..."Pitching is the name of the game". The White Sox have the lowest offensive WAR in MLB over the last 10 years and are right at the top in pitching fWAR (3rd). That has translated to a below .500 record. Pitching is important but it can't be the only part of the game. We aren't winning by signing veterans to plug holes and developing no offensive talent despite our regularly great pitching. So the pitching has been great 2013,2014, and 2015? 2015 13th, 2014 13th, 2013 9th. I would venture to guess the pitching was awful in 2007 as well, 12th out of 14. Those are the years the team was totally dreadful, which accounts for the below .500 record since winning the WS. People don't like trading prospects for hitters because too many people think guys like Montas will be stars, when, in reality, the odds are still against him. I'd hang on to Q. Trade Montas and Danish for hitters. If they are thought of anywhere near where some have placed them on this site, there should be plenty of offense coming back. That, and some bounce back from guys who have struggled. I am not talking Tyler Flowers. I think he is what he is, but realistically, Melky is a better offensive player. Eaton is a better offensive player. So is Alexei. Sanchez can't be as bad as he's been. Abreu should do better. LaRoche should hit some more home runs. I'm as sick of watching 1 or 2 runs scored as much as anyone. But this team will hit better. Whether that is this week, next month, in August or next season, they are better than they have shown.

If the White Sox did what some want here, a total rebuild, and not be competitive for 3 or 4 seasons, then you do trade Sale to the highest bidder, and Abreu as well. People would then be very happy with the farm system rankings, but the odds are slim that when it's all over, the package you receive is better than what you gave up. Toronto has the best cumulative WAR in baseball. The White Sox the worst. 3 games ago, they were about a half game apart in the standings. So judging a trade by cumulative WAR would seem silly. The Sox trading a pitcher who has an excellent chance of winning if the offense scores 3 runs, just doesn't make sense. You aren't going to have an offense 2 or 3 runs better a game from what you get from Chris Sale. The guys they have are going to have to hit. I am not holding out hope much offense is coming from the system for at least a couple of years, so they are going to have to get lucky. It would be interesting to see what it would have taken to get Donaldson and Cervelli this past offseason, but even if they had those guys, would they really be 4 or 5 games better than they are right now?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 09:34 AM) So obviously there's a huge statistical formula differentiation from dWAR, fWAR and whatever ESPN is using. Tell me in your own words why Fangraphs has a better number....something besides, "but it's from Fangraphs so it must be right." Because obviously if one system or another's proven to be BETTER and more accurate, then everyone would have a vested interested in adopting or improving it. It has already happened with fielding ratings going from UZR to Range Factor to Net Fielding Wins to Defensive Runs Saved in the span of less than 5 years. You are the one using ESPN. So maybe we should know why those are gospel to you and not fangraphs. The fWAR for whatever reason, is considered by the saber community more accurate. So why don't you tell us in your own words why it is not. The fact is, these numbers are very, very different, especially when you consider we aren't even halfway done with the season. So, IMO, there probably is some inaccuracy in both, especially when they are giving you major credit for defense. Those numbers have always been out of whack, and it is well documented. I read an article a couple of years ago which basically stated in a few years people will laugh at how defense was being valued.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 09:23 AM) http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/pos.../qualified/true You're only off by one full point in your WAR numbers on Betts. Not a big deal. Statistics. Check fangraphs. Then pop off. Also, 1.8 vs. 1.0 isn't one full point.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 09:15 AM) You just made the case we've already made a terrible trade for Jeff Samardzija...and it will only get worse in the coming years. At any rate, Boston isn't going to trade either Betts or Bogaerts. No I didn't. We all know Josh Phegley can't keep this up. And the great Marcus Semien is fading fast while still "holding his own" at SS with only 22 errors.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 09:01 AM) I'm talking about his defense, mostly. His offense has been erratic, sure. Look at the WAR ratings. He'll start to jump out soon enough. http://espn.go.com/mlb/war/leaders/_/type/...nsive/year/2015 He's Top 20 in the majors defensively among all players. Teams are going to pay J. Heyward $100+ million for less offense and a corner instead of CF spot. Same with Alex Gordon. Betts is going to be a very valuable player for them going forward. Not to mention his pittance of a salary compared to Heyward/Gordon, etc. If we're going to laugh or scoff at CFers who put up an OPS around 700 while playing close to elite defense, we might as well give up trying to compete in the new era of baseball because we're going to continue to be terrible offensively AND defensively....at the very worst, if you're not going to score, you should have elite defense and pitching (both starting and relieving) in order to field a competitive team. Betts is a 1.0 WAR player right now. So is Josh Phegley. Bogaerts is a 1.4, 7th in baseball for SS and he is 22.

The only reason a team would trade Sale was he was going to be ultra expensive and become a free agent fairly soon. Trading him now to fill in holes would be about the dumbest thing Rick Hahn could do.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Jun 12, 2015 -> 11:50 AM) Friday July 3 is a company holiday for me but I'm thinking of taking the 2nd off too. Where is your fire? Where is your passion? You might be a nice guy, but I really wonder if you are up to being a poster on a message board.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 12, 2015 -> 10:56 AM) For anyone who listens to games, apparently they are picking up on the Swirsky thing of reading people's tweeted questions. Darrin Jackson ‏@DJWhiteSox 8m8 minutes ago Every game we will try to respond to some of your tweets in the middle of the game. They used to do it through emails on the TV side, but it has been many years. I think it's a good idea.