Dick Allen

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 07:43 PM) The point is that it IS POSSIBLE for other teams to help their players improve defensively once they've reached the major league level. Instead, most of the White Sox players have been getting worse, by defensive ratings and/or the eye test. Explain what has been done by the staff to address that. Castellanos is still a negative defender and offensive player. Sorry. Some guys get better, but it is no lock. I am sure the White Sox work with all of their players.

Beckham wouldn't have requested it if he missed him, and that was the only issue.

QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Jun 17, 2015 -> 09:49 PM) How many shows are you catching this tour? Just 2. It probably is their last tour, unless they do Europe next year. Since my brother lives there and owes me a business class ticket, if they do play there we may follow them around for a week or so.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 03:01 PM) My exact phrase would have been "last year he was above average as a 5th starter and below average as a 4th starter" which is true. Unfortunately he did not perform at that level this year. Therefore he's been replaced. I'm also not concerned with the payout JR's heirs will receive. For example, I want them paying the salary of 2 managers because one of them was removed while still under contract in the middle of 2015. I assume you're also ok with that since you want to minimize the payout JR's heirs will receive. Your exact phrase was Noesi and Danks were not problems with this team. Now you are saying that the executives that thought as you did needed to be fired. So obviously you feel anyone thinking that is incompetent.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 03:04 PM) The Rangers gave up on Noesi because (even though they were going to find themselves in a rebuilding situation soon enough)...they believed they had numerous better starting options in the minors and felt they needed immediate results. They waived him because he sucked, and they thought he would continue to suck. They were right.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 03:09 PM) You're right, Castellanos sucks, he's even 0.25 OPS points behind Gordon somehow. I don't know what that has to do with it. But have fun praising other teams' crap.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 02:56 PM) Yes. But I wasn't willing to risk a $115 million payroll and trades for a guy about to become a FA on that. I would have been ok risking an $80 million payroll on that because we'd still be looking long term. If he failed in that case, what's the harm? It just becomes a spot that the next guy up from Charlotte tries out. Why are you so concerned about the payout JR's heirs will receive. The fact is, you thought he was pretty good. I can't believe people wrote this post without actually considering how Noesi's season went. Yes his ERA and FIP were poor, but somehow everyone has forgotten that: 1. His ERA was 0.35 runs lower if all you do is focus on the time he was with the White Sox 2. Focusing on the time he was with the white sox alone isn't smart either, in his first 4 starts with the White Sox they still needed to stretch his arm out so they left him out to die in the 6th inning several times while exhausted (ERA in those starts; 5.35) I posted this version of average fWAR by pitcher's spot in the rotation in the advanced stats forum earlier this year. You can quibble with the exact numbers a bit, but what they come up with is that on average, a #4 starter is worth about 1.5 fWAR and a #5 starter is worth about 0. In other words, if all that happened was those guys repeating their 2014 seasons, we may have a below average #4 starter, but we have an above average 5th starter, to the point where we're league average in our 4-5 starters. And again, that's assuming no improvement from Noesi, which there's a good chance of happening in fWAR just by getting more innings, no improvement from Danks another year removed from surgery, and no point where Rodon replaces them. And on top of that, we should very likely have above average #2 and #3 starters and if Chris Sale doesn't hit the DL we very likely have above average #1, #2, and #3 starters. Noesi and Danks are not problems with this team outside of Danks being overpaid for what he produces. If you can move Danks, great, but especially factoring in Rodon, this team is well set up to have an above average starting staff. That could change if someone gets hurt obviously, but a new #4 starter isn't going to make up for Chris Sale getting hurt no matter what we do.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 02:53 PM) Apparently the front office included because they were willing to massively increase the payroll while still leaving him a spot. I assume you agree this is a fireable offense. Funny thing is, you were one of them.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 02:49 PM) And who usually makes the "I can fix him bring him in" suggestion? Cooper. He said he thought he could help Shark as well. What a joke. He's lost his magic. Coop was boasting of the big plans he had for Noesi at Soxfest. A lot of people bought the hype. He does have talent, maybe bouncing around for a few more years may make something between his ears work a little better.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 02:46 PM) Piddling change that does nothing. Lose another 8 of 10 and maybe we'll see some real changes like finding a taker for LaRoche, (start teaching Avi 1B), DFAing boni (sanchez slides to his role) calling up Micah, moving Danks to the pen and calling up Johnson, etc, etc, etc. God, I'm rooting for the tornado (as Jim at SSS put well) instead of wins, what a s***ty season. So now Bonifacio needs to be DFA'd, a guy you loved, said the Sox wouldn't miss a beat if he had to play for a month. Sanchez is supposed to be in his role. A guy you said they had to call up for defense alone, that it was stupid Micah was playing 2B and he wasn't, and the Micah, the guy who wasn't supposed to play 2B, any fool could see that, should be back at 2B. Wow.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 02:37 PM) Heh, there are much better examples to point out how the Sox are poor talent evaluators than Scott Carroll. He's meant to be a spot starter/mop-up guy/long reliever, and he actually does fine in that role. It's not like the Sox believe he should actually be in the rotation. Exactly. Guys like Noesi, where even some of the talent evaluators here thought was a solid #4 or #5 starter. Some of the same evaluators who like to call the Sox dopes. Noesi was basically waived off of 2 teams. Not many of those guys become really good options in the rotation.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 02:12 PM) The Jordan era cap is nothing like the cap today. I don't know if it is really that different. I think players have a different mentality. The top ones wanted to win with their original team. Jordan wouldn't have thought about joining Magic or someone for a super team like Wade and LeBron.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 02:15 PM) Hey, he has that "cool hat marketing thing," he played QB for Purdue, he's a good "human interest story" and has a sense of humor to boot. What more can you ask for with this organization? Results/performance, too? Who should they have called up? You know, they shouldn't "rush" anyone.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 02:08 PM) First of all, Beckham was actually FIFTH in the REAL voting that everyone considers most important. Beckham was moved from SS to 3B to 2B. Viciedo went through, let's see, five position changes by my count (3B, 1B, LF, RF, DH). To think that moving those two guys are all over the place didn't affect their eventual development at all...I'm not buying it. We also did the same thing with Marcus Semien (2B, SS, 3B). So we're either bringing in incredibly limited players defensively (also, Micah and Anderson) or we don't know how to improve them. There's a long article about Nick Castellanos and all of the things the Detroit coaching staff has done (since the beginning of the offseason last year) to get him to major league average or a notch above...I'd have to hunt it down again. Beckham being 5th was due to his in season call up. After 2010 Viciedo was done as a 3B. He played RF and LF, something hundreds upon hundreds have players have done, and got some 1B last year. It wasn't the position changes, it wasn't impatience. In fact, most here thought they were too patient. As for the Tigers, Castellanos sucks.

To say they rushed Beckham is also funny. He was the Sporting News Rookie of the Year in 2009.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 01:36 PM) They were patient with Viciedo? When they called him up from AA during his 2nd year to sit on the bench? When he got a starting job after a decent but 1/2 season stint at Charlotte? When they moved him from 3b to 1b to 3b to RF to LF within a 3 year stint? Beckham conquered AAA and was not in over his head when he was called up. They were patient with Beckham when he got 259 minor league PAs before being called up to the bigs? Beckham got about 2800 PA before they pulled the plug. Viciedo about 1800. Were you upset when they were no longer with the team, thinking the patience wasn't what it should have been?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 01:22 PM) There is ONE valuable lesson to be learned from the Royals. They didn't give up on their players....Alex Gordon went through a position change and banishment to AAA (which had to hurt even more because he was born, raised and had collegiate success there)...but he came out even stronger. A lot of teams would have given up. Cain couldn't stay healthy to save his life but they didn't trade him. Moustakas and Hosmer were described as busts or disappointing for going on 2-3 years. The point is that they didn't panic. Those players were open to instruction (Gordon with Rusty Kuntz, improving every day in the OF, Moustakas learning how to hit to the opposite field, Hosmer learning how to drive the ball, etc.) Of course, they had other players like Sal Perez and Escobar who made immediate impacts and hit the ground running...all things considered. The White Sox are NEVER patient with their young position players...you can look at the Borchard/Anderson/Josh Fields era, or the more recent disappointments like Beckham, Viciedo, Morel, Semien, Micah Johnson, Sanchez, etc. So why are other teams patient with their young players? How did we get away from that same patience we showed with the likes of Crede and Aaron Rowand? Oh, it's because White Sox fans are the only ones in the majors who get impatient and can't stand rebuilding and won't get behind a complete teardown. The White Sox have been way more patient with their young players than Soxtalk would like. Beckham? Viciedo? Seriously?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 12:31 PM) Except for the last five years, we've been worse at doing it than all but one team in baseball. So, if we did the exact same thing, our record, by definition, would be in the middle of the pack every year. But taking more shots at Don Cooper will certainly improve things. You know, it's quite funny how much you dislike Don Cooper, he has been the most loyal employee Jerry Reinsdorf has ever had, along with Harrelson, Nancy Faust and Herm Schneider. Apparently, we should always be loyal and supportive of the coaching staff, everyone BUT Don Cooper, who for some inexplicable reason must have tripped your dog or passed by you when while you were collecting money for the Salvation Army at a storefront at Christmas and flicked his cigarette ashes in your bin. I didn't take a shot at Cooper here. You did by saying the Sox are failing at reclamation projects worse than any other. It is amazing how many times you actually argue with yourself.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 12:24 PM) Yep, it's the lug nut. Fixed it. If Saladino was doing anything, I would imagine he would get a call up and Sanchez sent down. But he's not. The problem is, the options on the farm are limited, and don't look so good.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 12:25 PM) So what is the solution then? I don't envy Hahn. Haven't you read his posts? Be like the Royals, and get into the Wild Card once every 30 years.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 12:22 PM) Pitchfork crowd....not pacified in the least. (Although we have proven one thing, that we can rehabilitate guys like Humber and Noesi, to a point...only to dump them for nothing in return but the loss of that valuable playing time and experience which SHOULD have gone to a long-term solution from the minors but couldn't since there was nobody ready in the minors.") ? Every team does the exact same thing.

You could see that happening for miles. Hector has some ability, but Coop couldn't fix him, and it appears he has no interest in relieving judging by how bad he is out of the bullpen.

Joe Maddon, and then the rest. This thread is ova.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 10:23 AM) if he is throwing the players under the bus, then he should mention names. really stir the pot. We hear how the White Sox are so behind in the times, but yelling and screaming and embarrassing guys as a way to get them to perform better seems to be as archaic as anything. I know we with our pitchforks would love that, but in real life is there anyone here that really wouldn't mind their boss throwing them under a bus, ranting and raving and telling everyone who would listen how badly they screwed up? Does anyone here really think that would make them a better employee?

QUOTE (Dunt @ Jun 18, 2015 -> 10:08 AM) People really have no basis for the argument that his K rate is going to skyrocket when he comes to the majors. In the short sample size of his major league career already, he has maintained roughly the same K rate as his minor league career. You're basing it on a September call up a couple of years ago? Not only that, his K rate was higher in the majors than minors that year, and his k rate in the minors is getting worse. There is plenty of basis to think Davidson would strike out more in the majors than he does in the minors. That's just laughable you think there is not.