Dick Allen

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Jun 23, 2015 -> 02:25 PM) Clearly. My point is that the argument in the past has been that the Sox can't afford to trade stars because it will hurt the brand. I think that's hogwash. Chris Sale is obviously a phenomenal pitcher, but he hardly a household name. I think it's foolish to hang on to Sale in hopes that he will be same pitcher 3 or 4 years down the road when the team is ready to contend and even more so with Abreu. I don't care how many burgers Sale could sell on a McDonald's ad, but he is a star pitcher. You need good players to win. Now, if they don't think they can win for 3 or 4 years, I agree with you, trade them all. I just don't think the White Sox situation is as dire as Cameron is making it. They have the makings of a good pitching staff. The offense is horrendous, but I don't think that means some of these guys like Melky are done. They do have to improve the defense. But if they get the offense to just average and Fulmer is as advertised, and they get something out of a Johnson or Montas or Danish, even out of the bullpen, if the offense is average, which is what it was when they won it all, they can be a contending team.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 23, 2015 -> 02:24 PM) So what were the offers for Reed? I have no idea, but neither do you and you are assuming Davidson was the best offer for him. If that was the case, and the White Sox knew what Matt Davidson would be, I am guessing they don't make that trade. At one point teams were saying he was not available, so as crazy as it seems, I think they could have received a player who would contribute at the major league level for his services.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jun 23, 2015 -> 02:16 PM) That's $100 million in theoretical prospect value if all prospects pan out too. I mean Sale's $150M of future performance value might be theoretical too, but it's a hell of a lot more likely than counting on some prospects to play well at the major league level. But you are still giving a $50 million or 33% discount. I know he is taking that as salary, but you are going to have to pay the guys you acquire, and if they aren't as great as advertised, and most usually are not, you are going to have to pay others just to make up that deficit. To me, if you are not winning enough games, trading a guy who is "worth" $150 million and acquiring packages "worth" $100 million means you just lost that trade. I will gladly give anyone $100 for $150 any time they would like.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 23, 2015 -> 02:10 PM) Yet the player we traded sucks, so... If anything they could have received for Reed would have sucked and never made the majors, you would have a point. But a team with few assets trading one for a bust is a blown trade. Davidson has gone from a guy many were wondering if he would be called up after his super 2 status expired to a guy who it will take a disaster for him to be called up.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 23, 2015 -> 02:00 PM) If you're moving Sale, you're not going to tie an anchor to him to save money. Without Sale, there's no need to reinvest that $14m next year anyway, and SOMEONE is going to have to soak those innings up. Yeah, I don't know why you have to take what would be fewer prospects so you don't have to pay Danks next year if you are dumping salary anyway and aren't going to be winning. If you are going for prospects, you don't include these guys in the deal lessening your reward. You just suck it up and pay them, and brag about your top farm system for a year or so.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jun 23, 2015 -> 01:43 PM) From the comment thread on the article: "The cost is high but he’s definitely not untouchable if only due to his contract. If Sale is to earn roughly $50MM over the rest of his contract and puts up $150MM in value, that’s $100MM in value they need to get back. Using a market rate of $8MM/Win, that’s 12.5 WAR they would need in order to move him. Doesn’t seem untouchable to get back several prospects who can be expected to contribute that amount, but they would need to be very good prospects. Even with Javier Baez’s terrible ML line last year, his KATOH projection is still over 5 WAR. Combined with Schwarber and Alcantara, and the players Dave proposed seem perfectly reasonable." What the hell is KATOH? How reliable are prospect projections anyway? What if Schwarber can't cut it at catcher or LF and ends up becoming a DH, thus lowering his value considerably? So he's saying trade Sale and his $150 million in value and get $100 million in value back. Yeah, that should make you a better team.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jun 23, 2015 -> 10:22 AM) i cant speak for anyone else, sox fan or cubs fan, but I think the lives of people in the viewing area trumps any game coverage at any time. Knowing the possibility of a tornado is on its way is pretty important for a lot of people They probably wouldn't break into a Sox game. Nobody's watching.

QUOTE (BamaDoc @ Jun 23, 2015 -> 08:40 AM) I watched last night CWS games and started thinking outside the box. I know it wouldn't be done due to egos and the risks/embarrassment of failure but look at Vanderbilt pre Corbin. Vandy was a program with no history and one of the greatest disadvantages in recruiting there could be. Many of you may not realize that most baseball scholarships are fractions of a full ride. At Vandy if you are on a third or half ride you must come up with the rest of the money. That extra is often 20-30k just in tuition. That cost severely limits your player pool. Academic requirements are substantial and most academic scholarships start with needing about 32 on an ACT. Yet he has built a very solid program all while the MLB raids his roster and recruiting class. They play smart aggressive baseball. They develop pitchers and hitters. I would consider hiring someone like that to run my minor league system. I think the minors are much more like college than MLB. You are dealing with developing players and dealing with kids away from home and life problems. I would seriously consider a guy like Corbin and give him a huge say in hiring scouts and instructors. So often scouts and instructors are former MLB players or failed minor leaguers who seem to have little qualifications. There is a place for people who have MLB experience but not in an organizational nepotistic way. Imagine guys developing. Coming up and able to hit behind runners, execute a bunt when called for, knowing how to play defense. Playing smart. The problem is the White Sox do all these things in the minor leagues, and either they have players that just can't grasp it or have instructors that just can 't teach it. There was a photo on Twitter of Micah Johnson being schooled about playing 2B in Charlotte 6 hours before the game. I was told the same thing was going on in Chicago. He wasn't getting better. Is it because he can't or the White Sox don't know how to make him better? I also heard another reason Micah is in Charlotte was the pitching staff was getting very frustrated, I heard especially Samardjiza, with his glove work.

QUOTE (southside hitman @ Jun 23, 2015 -> 08:23 AM) If they both amount to basically nothing we win due to the money saved. Maybe that money is being spent on Bonafacio. The problem with the trade is whether anyone really wants to admit it or not, Reed was a definite asset on a rebuilding team. The asset was traded away for a strikeout machine, which the White Sox apparently are attracted to in their system, who has little chance to ever help the team. If you trade Reed fine. But it isn't about well, Reed ultimately failed so getting a guy that failed is great. Whoever is responsible for scouting Davidson blew it. If you make a trade for a team's #1 ranked prospect, but could have had their #10 ranked prospect, and the #10 ranked prospect turns out to be a better player. You blew it. When Hahn or KW are making trades, it doesn't matter what the BA ranking is. It doesn't matter what the mlb.com ranking is, or what BP or Fangraphs thinks, it's ultimately what the White Sox think. And what they thought of Matt Davidson was wrong.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 22, 2015 -> 01:26 PM) wasn't there talk about him being a catcher as well?? with a possibility of a recurring injury and surgery..... there is always that possibility. but then again, he will be rehabbing with the sox people which i would trust more than college coaches. He was a catcher until last season when he pitched 35 innings. I would think either genetically he may have issues in his arm, or he must have some messed up mechanics. Then he pitched in the Cape Cod league before busting loose this season. He has 119 IP as a college pitcher, not counting what he did in the Cape Cod league. Of course he was a catcher, so it wasn't like he wasn't throwing before. It just seems really quick to get injured.

Anyone read the Sullivan column on Castro and Ventura? I didn't know Sveum got fired in part because of his "tough love" act with Castro. Sully wrote Maddon uses a pat on the back approach, and seems to be getting the same results. They say the guy wants to win and be really good. It appears despite a ton of talent, (and he at least was ahead of Pete Rose in hits at his age earlier this year) he either doesn't have it in him or he has to grow up. I don't know if his contract is bargain enough to consider him a huge piece of a trade at this point.

The one thing that does seem a bit scary even if you are of the belief TJ surgery is no big deal, it's not like this guy has a lot of pitching under his belt. He blew it out quickly. Maybe I am way off, but that would make me think he is a guy who would be a good candidate to have this surgery again.

QUOTE (flavum @ Jun 22, 2015 -> 11:57 AM) Just for my own curiosity, I looked at the standings last year. When the 11 worst teams played a total of 770 games, it was through 6/17/14. Out of the bottom 11 teams through the same point, no team ever got over .500. Only one team made it to .500 and it was the worst team- Tampa Bay started 28-43, and went 33-18 the next 51 games to reach .500. And then immediately dropped some games and stayed under .500 the rest of the season. The Sox were 33-37, and managed to get to 54-56. I think even the most optimistic of us realizes the odds are stacking against the White Sox. But regression to the mean tells us the team should, at some point, start performing better. The offense cannot be this bad. Every year is different. I still hope the Sox get on a roll, and think they will at some point. I don't know if it will be enough, but stranger things have happened. They were 55-27 in 2006 after going 11-1 in the playoffs and never not being in first place the season before. They didn't make the playoffs. Some teams that are playing well now, won't continue to play well. Some that have been not so good, will get better.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jun 22, 2015 -> 11:30 AM) Much of this was the annual AL feasting on the NL. We just had a bit of that and promptly lost 8 in a row. Edit: pods was 2009. That was a fun run. Houston is AL. I have to remind myself about that a lot.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 22, 2015 -> 11:22 AM) Because they're actually in a pennant race, unexpectedly to boot, so he can actually help the team right now. I kinda get that. So it's wrong to be aggressive promoting players unless you are going to promote them into the pressures of a pennant race?

Avi is not pickimg this guy up at all. He needs a hanger.

Hawk doesn't bother sying the dreaded leadoff walk when the Sox are hitting anymore.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jun 20, 2015 -> 11:48 PM) Just a crass salary dump. Terrible Of course the Sox did this with E Jackson, who would have brought back a marginal top 100 prospect like Teahen was, to save $6 mill on Teahen. Jackson was going to be a free agent. For 13 Edwin Jackson starts, and taking Teahan's money, the Sox got Frasor,, who turned into. Webb and Jaye. I really don't understand how anyone can complain about that.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Jun 20, 2015 -> 11:01 AM) Dude's a f***in' tool. Anyone need more proof? Go read through this thread, see how often he was wrong, and then see how many times he admitted it. I guess personal attacks are now allowed. But where was I wromg in this post? Show me.

QUOTE (Wanne @ Jun 20, 2015 -> 05:32 PM) yeah it was...dude clearly leaned into it. Crap call/non-call by the ump...still a no-hitter tho. The last 57 batters he has faced, he has allowed 1 walk, 1 hit, and 1 HBP.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 20, 2015 -> 04:54 PM) if there is enuf of a spread between getting pitcher or hitter, and the player with the highest upside is a pitcher. then yeah i would always love another Sale. Laumann said in the first several rounds they always draft best player on their board. He said in the later rounds they may Pock someone based onposition of need.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 20, 2015 -> 11:22 AM) Okay but J.R. was opposed to taking advantage of market inefficiencies. There was no penalty to spend a ton before. There was absolutely no excuse to not draft guys that fell and sign them for big $$ to deals to fuse the system with talent. My biggest problem was not doing things that a team like the Red Sox used to do all the time. He never took the draft seriously. He didn't allocate the resources that could have been allocated. He did give Borchard the highest bonus ever at the time. I do think his failure spooked the team.

I don't even know if I should post this....We have a new hire in our IT department, so take this with a huge grain of salt, buy she claims to know Samardjiza and said he will be traded in the next week. If you want him traded, I wouldn't get my hopes up. I cannot verify if this is accurate for a week.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 20, 2015 -> 07:56 AM) well said....... ref the bold, can you pls expand on that for those who live outside ILL. before they move this thread, start a new one. i hope you don't mind. many thanks. Ronertson said he sucked, he took the blame for the loss. When Alexei's spin o rama for no reason cost the Sox a game, he was "unavailable" afterwards to the media.

I have no problem with Robin going to Robertson. 125 pitches last outing, 111 this, as Robin said he has to protect the crown jewel plus they have a $14 million a year closer that hasn't been used. Last year Trout homered off Sale with 115 pitches with nowhere near Robertson in the pen, and in hindsight he was called an idiot for leaving him in. People have been saying this season is over. If you believe that, why would winning last night be so important you would be willing to risk Sale's health? One sad fact, since 2012, Sale has 4 starts where he has gone at least 8 innings without giving up an earned run and didn't get the win, Hopefully some of the guys can learna lesson from Robertson owning up after the game instead of hiding like Alexei did when he blew the game.