Dick Allen

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 03:01 PM) I agree with this post and I also say Crasnick's tweet could be a mirade of things and it could have even been the Sox working on keeping any leverage they have (I don't really think they have a lot, in the case of Shark) but they'll do what they can to spin things. I still think we should aggressively look at moving Q and Shark. Would anyone be interested in Shields (if say the Pads would do Danks for Shields and cash (or maybe Danks and LaRoche). It would depend on the cash. Sheilds' contract is tremendously back loaded.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 02:57 PM) They released JD Martinez last year. If the White Sox made the trade today and got what Oakland got for Kazmir for Shark, the people complaining would still be complaining. Only, instead of "they waited too long", it would have been "what was the rush"

QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 02:03 PM) Yeah we said the same thing about Alex Rios. If I remember correctly we didnt take on a penny. We got pennies back ofcourse. Rios wasn't a rental. Supposedly Hahn said they were spending the savings on international guys.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 01:58 PM) I just want an offensive player who can contribute next year. I don't care if that's considered "narrow minded" or "so Kenny Williams". This pitching staff is a playoff caliber staff.. I would not have been that big a fan of the package from the Kaz deal. If you're gonna waste this pitching staff then you might as well trade off said pitching staff. I agree with the latter. I wouldn't mind a hitter, but if they could somehow get a Hoffman from Toronto...to me that would be a big win. They are going to have to find bats somewhere though.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 01:50 PM) That is the worst. Comp picks went from undervalued to overvalued. The Sox should sell low on Samardzija before settling for that. I would be furious if Jeff Samardzija is on the team August 1st. I think at the very least it should improve the offers you receive. And wouldn't it increase your draft pool? Does anyone know if Oakland is kicking in money in this trade? If not and the White Sox are willing to throw in a couple million, that should improve the return right there.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 01:42 PM) My contacts are condemning behaviors of the FO. This is not a race to trade your asset. Yes, the market is shrinking and yes there are more pitchers available but that doesn't mean you undersell your only good asset on the market. I was saying we should have traded Samardzija earlier regardless of the team's hot streak. I am on record saying so. That doesn't mean that because the supposed top contender for Samardzija paired up with the strangest FO in baseball to trade for a different pitcher means the FO struck out on July 23rd. There are plenty of teams in the market for SP. I do think they should act quickly and move him soon but no trade between the two strangest front offices in baseball will get me to a conclusion that the Sox' FO totally f***ed up the trade deadline here on July 23rd. I have patience and understanding of the process so I won't make rash decisions based on one singular related transaction. Exactly. The rental market shrunk by one, for a package that initially in this thread was thought weak. I agree in I don't know why it is assumed the first trade of the trading season shows peak return value. There are still more teams that need pitchers than there are good pitchers really available.

If the Sox have to hold on they get a draft pick. Still a nice fall back option. I thought Soxtalk loved draft picks.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 01:25 PM) Again, the frustration comes from the reports in regards to the White Sox organization being clueless, not that they missed out on these particular prospects. I am sure the White Sox don't want it in the media they are selling. And couldn't telling a team you may not be interested in selling be a negotiating tool? As much as we would like to think so, JR, Hahn, and KW aren't really all that dumb.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 01:21 PM) Although Kazmir has more of an injury history, he's outperforming Samardzija this year so far. He's paid a tiny bit more, would translate to about $1 million extra in payroll during the last 2 months for Kazmir over Samardzija, but you get a guy performing better who also happens to be a lefty which is always a nice bonus. Hard to believe Samardzija could gather a much bigger return. But you never know. It's like selling tickets on Stubhub. Sometimes people panic and lower the price quickly for a sale while others hold firm and get their price. Sometimes it works out the other way. Is Kazmir a guy Beane would have offered arb? I don't know. Maybe Billy moved early fearing Kazmir might break down. Maybe it is a buyer's market. We don't really know. Right now, I don't see where the draft pick is that much worse than what Beane got. Maybe he needed the salary relief. That's another thing. Maybe the Sox pick up some of Shark's money for a better return. Has it been reported Oakland is doing the same?

QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 01:14 PM) You gotta give up players to get players. I dont see why that isnt getting through to you. How many times was Nottingham mentioned on this site before today? Now all of a sudden, this A ball catcher is something the Sox really needed. It's beyond laughable. If the Sox actually made this trade today, and a couple of days later, another rental was traded for a better known prospect, the complaining would have no end. I am sorry, I am not losing my mind because the Sox didn't acquire some A ball catcher that wasn't even a top 20 Astros prospect before this season began. Maybe I should be. But why don't we wait to see what was acquired and how they turn out before deciding the White Sox blew it? And how do we even know this package was available for Samardjiza?

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 01:11 PM) Mike Ferrin ‏@MikeFerrinSXM 5m5 minutes ago If Nottingham & Mengden reach their ceiling: Astros gave up everyday C & 4/5 starter for 2 mos. of Mid-rotation starter. Seller’s market. The only problem is how many players actually reach the ceilings that were given to them in A ball?

The Astros are without a doubt the most sabermetrical team in baseball. So if you're a saber guy, and knowing how thin catching is league-wide, and they trade him for a rental, wouldn't it make you think they aren't very high on him?

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 12:57 PM) Honestly embarrassed You're embarrassed the Sox didn't get Nottingham for Samardzija? Have you ever even heard of Nottingham until this trade was announced?

I think the outrage over Cranick's tweet is silly. If the Astros were offering something the White Sox wanted, I am sure a deal would have been done.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 12:56 PM) 7 of those 10 are in the majors right now, that's not bad for a lottery ticket And so is Flowers, but supposedly he is the worst baseball player who ever lived. And these were the top 10 in the league. You can sign guys like Soto for around minimum every year. If you are trading Samardjiza, I think you are aiming a little higher than that. Maybe in 5 or 6 years Nottingham is, but the odds are stacked against him and almost every minor league catcher of being anything but an extremely mediocre major league player. As I stated, Flowers was a better prospect than this guy.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 12:53 PM) Jerry Crasnick ‏@jcrasnick 55s55 seconds ago The #Astros also had Jeff Samardzija on their radar, but couldn't afford to wait for #WhiteSox to decide on a course of action. https://twitter.com/jcrasnick Well there's some good news(major sarcasm) It will be interesting to see what the Sox get for Shark vs. the Kazmir return. Personally, I hope they get a more advanced prospect. Do you really want the Sox to acquire a guy who needs to go through their system for a few years?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 12:48 PM) Worth highlighting that Flowers, while in the minors, had several other things going on with him, including a steroid suspension. Yeah, in A ball. Top 10 MLB catching prospects Jan 2008 Wieters Clement Towles Soto Conger Bryan Anderson Montero Mesoraco Cervelli Teagarden Not a lot of potential HOFers there.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 12:40 PM) The fact he is still here should have done that anyway. If there was a big return to be had, he would have been gone. Exactly. I don't know how anyone can conclude they waited too long and the seller's market disappeared. What trade was made that indicated there was a seller's market to begin with?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 12:39 PM) I'm not sure what this post actually means? Nottingham will bust because Flowers did? Nottingham is a poor prospect because he's a catcher? No, it means minor league catchers are very difficult to project, because there is a lot going on with them. Flowers was .275/.391/.876 his minor league career at was a top 75 prospect. He was supposed to be all offense, no defense. Now he's the opposite, and the defense, at least to me, seems to be declining. That would project a lot better. An A ball catcher, even if he is having a "break out" season, is still just a lottery ticket.

Tyler Flowers was a breakout catching prospect once. Didn't KW watch him hit a bunch of homers in the AZ Fall League? The kid would be nice to have, but still there are very few catchers anymore with really nice offensive games.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 12:22 PM) Do I need to add my reply or does your text already give it away? I'm out. The thing you ignore, which is odd since you seem to be very concerned with JR's bank account, is De Aza also makes $4.5 million more than Avi. But let's revisit when Avi is hot and De Aza is cold.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 11:43 AM) Fans undervalue players who are not awesome, but not black holes. We could call it the ADA Effect if we wanted. Maybe, but this was bumped when De Aza was on a hot streak and at the peak of his value. Feeky likes to mention BABIP, yet, he isn't even looking at De Aza's. I'll use a line he used for Avi, he is going to crash, and crash hard. He loves to bump threads the second he supposedly looks good, like second Flowers dipped below .200, and when Semien had an .850 OPS. He remains silent when the tide turns the other way. De Aza was underappreciated, but to really think the White Sox would be a better team with him and not Avi is so beyond laughable.

QUOTE (ewokpelts @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 09:07 AM) Harold Washington made a deal with Jim Thompson in 1987 that if the state were to finance a stadium, it HAD TO BE at 35th and shields. Jerry couldn't go anywhere but Florida at that point. And the south loop is not as attractive as you think. A site at Clark and Roosevelt would be 2 blocks from the red line(and the orange line was still years away), no access for the green line, and 5 blocks from the Dan Ryan. And traffic on that stretch of Roosevelt is murder at 8pm in November, never mind after getting 12,000 cars in the area. Oh, and that target that people keep talking about wasn't built until 2004. There was zero development on Roosevelt between state and canal for almost 20 years after the sox stopped looking at the south loop. And of course, the bears wanted NOTHING to do with the sox in the south loop, near west side, or at 35th and shields. Well the Bears play at perhaps the most inconvient stadium in the US.

QUOTE (ewokpelts @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 08:58 AM) Of course the city wants the land developed. It'll generate tax revenue. Something an ISFA-financed stadium won't do. But the larger point remains. If the city balks at an intersection project at 300 million(and one that WILL save lives. Google Western and Pershing accidents), I doubt it can swing a major construction project to move several railways and create access points for a stadium that will make the city and state little to no direct revenue(seeing as most teams pocket parking and ticket money). It certainly was a consideration 30 years ago. And it would have been a state project.

QUOTE (WBWSF @ Jul 23, 2015 -> 07:52 AM) Dick Allen: I still can't believe to this day that JR had the opportunity to have a stadium built in the South Loop and instead wanted to go to Dupage County. They would have drawn alot more people in the South Loop as opposed to their present location OR Dupage County. It has to be the biggest mistake in the history of the franchise. I will shed no tears when JR no longer owns the team. The bad thing is the next owner will have the same problem with the Cells location. Especially considering JR made his money in Real Estate, although I think the reality of it was his hands were tied. If he wanted the state to build him a stadium, he was going to have to make a lot of concessions. I don't think building it where they did was his ideal answer.Closer to downtown, you wouldn't need all the parking lots. People could have taken trains. But that was almost 30 years ago, and the South Loop was pretty much a dump back then. JR made out fine with his lease, and the team stayed. I live in the city and take the Red Line to games, so it's current location is fine for me, and there is a point that it is more accessible than Wrigley Field, Soldier Field, the United Center, for many. As for the neighborhood, it is what it is. The White Sox can't make it a party area, and the residents understandably don't want it to become one.