StrangeSox

There's still incentive even if you stop entitlement programs. There are (or at least were!) jobs here; there aren't any in Mexico or a lot of other C.A./S.A. countries.

Kap, what exactly did he know on day 3? When did BP actually start giving out estimates or showing video footage?

What, exactly, is causing it to overheat? When was the last time the coolant was checked or flushed? How many miles are on the car, and is it still the original water pump? Are the radiator fans working or not? Is the heat in the car working (no could indicate a stuck thermostat)?

It's just another attempt to deflect blame from BP or at least make Obama look as bad by comparison. The government's complacency before hand and incompetence since in this is inexcusable, but their responsibility comes no where near BP's and certainly no where near criminal actions by Obama or the White House. I'll reserve judgement on MMS officials, because there could have been greased palms there. edit: Kap, what did Obama know, and when? AFAIK BP was obfuscating and downplaying the incident for a while before anyone else saw what was really going on down there.

That^.

There's a decent amount of info out there on the average health insurance policy costs for a family of four. It's something like $5000 annual average country-wide and as high as $13000 average in NJ. Health insurance is not cheap at all, and it's prohibitively expensive if you don't have your employer subsidizing it.

QUOTE (kapkomet @ Jun 15, 2010 -> 05:34 PM) Obama is just as negligent and criminally liable (yea, I know, can't happen, but in reality this is true) in this as BP now. You're going to have to actually explain this one.

Eh, quite a number of economic studies show a net positive impact on our economy. So there's a financial justification for it.

QUOTE (KipWellsFan @ Jun 15, 2010 -> 05:24 PM) According to the poll(s) I've seen today, most Americans think Obama should be harder on BP, so it's not like Obama has an easy balance to strike. Are some of these Brits, and others invested in BP of no fault of their own? Because to me energy companies are always attractive investment options, but with difficult moral questions, and certain obvious risks. It's another "too big to fail." It doesn't matter how awful they ran their business and how many risks they took; their collapse would effect too many people and so we have to prop them up. There is a legitimate argument for BP sticking around so they can continue to pay for cleanup costs and (lifetime) loss-of-wages damages.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 15, 2010 -> 04:37 PM) Holy cripes, you guys should have heard the British news outlets talk about Obama and the way the US is handling this thing. They are ballistic. They talk I heard was not what I typically associated with England and the US. It calmed down a bit after Cameron had his talk with Obama but they are f***ing livid at the Obama administration and they refer to him as the Great Joke (instead of the Great Hope). The British citizens are getting killed as there retirements are heavily impacted by what the US government is asking for. I personally have a major long-term buy status on BP because they will recover from this and right now they are incredibly undervalued. However, I could be a complete dumbass and be wrong. I tend to believe people over-react. I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for them. The US government isn't even asking for enough at this point IMO ($20B isn't going to cover everything). Investing is inherently risky, and when you invest in a company with transparently awful practices, well, you risk getting burned.

QUOTE (HeGone33 @ Jun 15, 2010 -> 10:46 AM) Yes, I figured someone on here would have an audio file of it. Just download/ buy the movie soundtrack?

A Letter from Congress ahead of Hayward's visit: http://www.theoildrum.com/node/6604 That does not bode well for BP. edit: seriously, unless this letter is way off the mark with the facts, f*** BP. Bankrupt those assholes, and send those directly responsible to jail. Transocean's internal working report as of June 8th. Some good diagrams in there to understand exactly what the oil well looks like and how the different components (BOP, casing, annulus, etc.) play together. http://energycommerce.house.gov/documents/...June.8.2010.pdf edit again: and a large document dump http://energycommerce.house.gov/index.php?...s&Itemid=55

My cousin used the Pirates of the Caribbean theme the Sox were using the past several years (not sure if they are this year), is that the one you meant?

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jun 14, 2010 -> 12:54 PM) I give up. I get what you're saying; I just have a more pessimistic view.

Right, and I don't believe that exporting valuable metals is going to improve the life of the average Afghan. I believe it will make it worse, and I point to centuries of foreign exploitation and internal corruption of poorer countries as evidence.

Oh, and some under/ not-reported oil spills in Nigeria, comparable in scale to DWH. http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-stag...a-world-spilled NSS, this is why I don't hold out hope for newly-discovered mineral deposits to bring a better life for Afghans. If the resources are in an area populated by poor people, then little to no concern is given to safety or the environment.

BP finally gets the right experts on the job. But they died in 2005.

I'll spare citing a bunch of colonial industrial accidents* and how terrible they've made certain areas and just say that I disagree. I think there are very real negative potentials for this for the general Afghan population, including dangerous working conditions, near-slave-labor, and completely destroyed environmental areas (including water sources). *I don't mean colonial-era, but the practice of corps going in similar to a colonial power and exploiting the local population and resources to their own detriment. Can you cite any situations where average citizens in under-developed countries benefited from resource development? As far as I can tell, it always results in corrupt governments staying corrupt and the wealthy ruling class staying the wealthy ruling class while causing massive environmental damage.

It's coming right for us! The question isn't whether it is resonable to defend your own life. The question is if it was reasonable to feel your own life was in danger in that situation and if the appropriate way to defend yourself was to shoot a teenager. Should riot police be able to open up on protest crowds if someone decides to throw something at them?

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jun 14, 2010 -> 07:24 AM) You know, believe it or not, I think this offers a better path than what they have now. As it stands, the corruption is already there, and all the s***ty cultural dynamics between the tribes... except their cash cow is opium. You are really just replacing some of that, long term, with minerals. Minerals will be extracted by mining companies. Yes, they will exploit people. But there will also be large sums of money, and jobs, in the country, in a generally legal enterprise. This is an improvement. As bmags pointed out, I think we have far more instances of natural resources being exploited at the expense of the local populace rather than to the benefit. That, and mining is pretty terrible environmentally and I can't imagine the Afghans enacting strict environmental or workplace safety regulations.

Exactly. It's a one-run game. You try to win that no matter what.

I have a feeling that this won't end well for the poor people of Afghanistan. Not that the current or previous paths were any good...

kap can never be wrong on this issue. He can just keep claiming that, at some point in the future, they're going to implement whatever he's on about, you'll see!

Well that's 6 solid starts in a row for this staff. What took them so long?

FJM