iamshack

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 01:55 PM) I agree with you and I also agree that Fox isn't there at 7. Then again, everyone thought Dunn was going to be a stud last year and look at people's views of him this year. I don't think there is any way he gets past Sacramento at 5.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 01:27 PM) Garcia will be a $10 million in arbitration this year if he anywhere close to keeps up this season. The arb system isn't as much about raises as it is comps. RF's who hit .340 and put up .900+ OPSs get paid big time, and this is year #2 of arb when those numbers start to explode. Next year the same sort of numbers will get him in the range of $15 million, maybe more, if he goes through the arb system. If Garcia has held out this long to be extended, it tells me that he thinks he can get paid in free agency. For what it would take to get his attention and give up free agency, I am not willing to go there. I have to say, I think your numbers are quite high above, and I am utterly lost as a result of your second paragraph. What makes you think he held out? When do you suppose an extension was offered him? Bottom line, the guy is guaranteed the remainder of his $3 million owed to him this year, and probably a solid $7-8 million next year through arb. Beyond that, he is guaranteed very little. Offering him $68 million or so over 6 years allows him to have generational money with another potential shot at FA in his age 32/33 season. For a guy that has basically been worse than replacement level his previous 3 seasons, I suspect that is more alluring than you are recognizing.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 01:11 PM) At this stage, he is two seasons away from free agency. In order to get him to give up that free agency, you are going to have to make it worth his while. The time for cheap extensions is pre-arb, not two years from free agency. I am not sure how you structure a 3 or 4 year deal that is bargain enough for the White Sox, but big enough to make Garcia willing to give up free agency without a big guarantee of money. What are you taking? Something like 3/45? ($10-'18, $15-'19, $20-'20). I mean in that case, why wouldn't Abi just wait and look for a 5 or 6 year deal at the same rate or better on the open market? I don't understand why it matters whether this is pre-arb or not. Yes, he will get paid in arbitration, but typically, an arbitrator does not want to award a massive increase from previous years unless there is a steady history of performance backing it. Avi obviously does not have that history. Many people were upset that we paid Avi $3 million this season. Do you believe that if after this season, assuming he continues along some reasonable range of performance similar to where he has been over his last 450 PAs or so, we went to his reps and offered something in the way of Jose Abreu's contract, that he wouldn't accept that? I think it would be highly compelling, and would be a far better use of resources than to trade him for dimes on the dollar because we were concerned about the risk.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 01:03 PM) I am not willing to put nine figures on the fact that this is the real Avi Garcia. I think there is a chance he can sustain it, but that is one helluva bet. NINE figures? What?

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 12:46 PM) Well, they are going to have pay players at some point. You can try and extend him this off season. In fact, he's the exact type of guy they should extend, a top talent that is coming into his prime years. Yeah, I agree with you here. Yes, a REBUILD typically means dealing away current assets for future assets, as generally, those future assets hold more risk and thus can be acquired with less resources. That being said, the ultimate goal always has to be fielding a collection of baseball players that can win baseball games. Additionally, sometimes a player simply has more value to the marketplace than he does to your own organization (Chris Sale). Avisail Garcia is basically an existing asset of little value that was written off, which has almost unbelievably blossomed into something quite valuable. As with all of our other assets, we need to determine, on a case-by-case basis, three things: 1) What is the current market value of the asset; 2) What is the current value of the asset to the Organization; and 3) What is the anticipated value of the asset to the Organization during the window during which the MLB Club forecasts to be competitive? My speculation is that the answer to those questions looks something like this: 1) Reasonably valuable, but perhaps undervalued due to a small sample size and a large divergence from previous performance; 2) Very valuable - indeed he has been one of the best-performing players on the MLB Club; and 3) Potential to be very valuable, with a higher than average risk of volatility in performance due to a lack of information at this time. I believe the answers to the questions are likely to at least be reasonably accurate. Assuming they are, they point to holding the asset unless an offer is made which requires you to take it due to a desire to limit the risk mentioned in answers 1 and 3. Folks, remember, just because we lack control into our forecasted competitive window does not mean we cannot regain control through further negotiations resulting in a contract extension/new contract. The goal of the rebuild is to assemble talent, given all available resources. Cash is one of those resources. We can utilize it to sign some well-performing assets that we would otherwise not have under contract.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 06:59 AM) Exactly. I don't think they were planning on being good this year. I can see them dealing some prospect depth for a rental type without touching the big prospects and just rolling with that and seeing how it pans out. I don't disagree with your first sentence, but I don't know how well it would go over in NY if they are in a tight race with Boston and they just half-ass it because they are afraid to move a prospect. Not saying I disagree with Eminor and that Cashman will go on tilt or something, but if there is an opportunity, I have to think he won't be afraid to move a few pieces, even from their top tiers, to try and make some noise in the Postseason.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 21, 2017 -> 01:22 PM) You have a history of going off topic, and this topic bounced from one thing to another so fast that I couldn't keep any sense of it. That's all people are insinuating. Horses***. Have you guys seen the new Vegas Knights jerseys? It's 115 in Vegas today, and I have a bit of chaffing going on. I walked in to a bike shop to get some chaffing cream the other day and my wife yells out MY HUSBAND NEEDS CHAFFING CREAM FOR HIS BALLS. I seriously think the ball is juiced right now. Homers are wayyyy up since like 2015. We should have traded Sale for Bellinger. Wouldn't you rather have Bellinger than Moncada right now? I suppose Bellinger doesn't speak Spanish though, so who knows if we would have gotten Robert. Who is better, Moncada and Robert, or Bellinger and Urias?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 21, 2017 -> 02:09 PM) Sheets signed for $2 million, his slot was just over 1.39m. Yeesh

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 21, 2017 -> 12:06 PM) Yep, and this is why, when people start talking about holding Kahnle until next year if we don't get x top-whatever prospects, we must remember that the proper time to sell relievers is when they are demanded. I get it, but it isn't that simple. Are relievers fickle by nature? For the most part, yes. Does that mean we sell them off at the sign of the first decent offer? Absolutely not! It's absolutely something that needs to be figured into the risk/reward equation, but that doesn't mean you don't try to extract proper value.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jun 21, 2017 -> 11:54 AM) He had also only given up one hit to that point and had two outs. Ended the game with 121 pitches. He is one of those guys that is a horse and throws a lot of pitches. That being said, this is not something you want to begin impacting your starters because the problem bleeds into their usage.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 21, 2017 -> 07:20 AM) Last time I checked, SoxTalk was not the Sox GM...lol. At any rate, do we really need a separate thread for Saunders? Is SoxTalk also content with Abreu's defense at 1b? If Delmonico and Hayes aren't going to be considerably better, they probably need to look outside the organization, unless you think Avi can make the transition successfully to 1B? And the fact of the matter is that Abreu and Avi both will likely be gone after 2019, yes? Now it's possible Sheets is ready to play there in 2020, but would you be willing to put Vegas odds on him starting at 1b Opening Day that season? What is there to be lost by Abreu playing poor defense for the next two years, really?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 20, 2017 -> 08:43 PM) Relation to cotton-eyed Joe or character from Deliverance? See the Avi thread Damn, we hit the ball hard that inning. What are you going to do.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 20, 2017 -> 08:37 PM) 9 errors for Garcia..isn't that tied with Anderson? That's crazy for a RF with half a season to go still. It is...and who cares! Just need him to hit .300 to see skinny Joe!

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jun 20, 2017 -> 08:34 PM) Need good picks and prospects dude. The rebuild needs another year. Players need to perform so they can be traded. We ARE losing though...

You guys aren't drinking enough on the course

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jun 20, 2017 -> 08:25 PM) This team competes but Jesus we need to lose games. Are you eating the brownies again?

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 20, 2017 -> 08:22 PM) What was with letting Avi face a LHP ?

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Jun 20, 2017 -> 08:19 PM) You can here in Stone's voice that he enjoys talking to a guy that actually knows the game a bit. No offense to Jason, who bring a positive attitude and professional demeanor, but there's something to be said for having played imo. I think he is enjoying having the best of both worlds....he gets Hawk, who knows the game, but he gets Jason as well, who isn't quite as serious all the time. This is probably as happy as he's been in a long time.

.339!

Have to lay off those

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Jun 20, 2017 -> 08:13 PM) Hawk is a good mood tonight if he could bring this effort more often I'd like him again. Yeah, he sure is...it's been a very pleasant (albeit long) viewing experience this evening.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Jun 20, 2017 -> 08:10 PM) Occasionally. I was lucky enough to sit free (Amazon account friend of a friend) 6th row right behind home plate when the Sox played the Mariners here. He was in a nice groove, staying back on the ball, recognizing off speed stuff. He got the same curveball in that game and drove it oppo field gap for a double. That breaking ball, that Stone described as a "knee buckler" but that Hawk (and myself) immediately thought was a meat ball (and to be fair Stone's perspective is valid, but Hawk, and in my s*** career, we hit, not pitched) he would have hit 400 feet if he was in a groove. Instead he didn't even swing. Problem is Todd's "grooves" are getting shorter and shorter. Luckily he's still very good at 3B so he should have some trade value.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Jun 20, 2017 -> 08:04 PM) Todd Frazier when he's going bad almost looks like a 30 year old beer leaguer. Oh, I just thought that was his permanent existence. Is there a time when he doesn't look that way?

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 20, 2017 -> 08:03 PM) So tired of that stupid lunge at the ball Hack

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Jun 20, 2017 -> 08:02 PM) Man I have no idea. It's a good problem though. Maybe teach him 3B if his arm can handle it. Hah, teach him MOVE MONCADA TO CENTER