JUSTgottaBELIEVE

How is fWAR an end all be all stat for catchers? Does it account for game calling? Does it account for how a catcher handles a pitcher’s composure when they’re rattled? It’s certainly not perfect but that’s where stats like CERA become relevant because those soft skills at the catcher’s position are so difficult to quantify in a stat like WAR. It’s the most unique defensive position on the field.

There’s the fWAR line again...

Let’s put it this way, 17.2 bWAR over the first 8 years of Grandal’s career is good but it’s certainly not top 2 catcher in MLB good. Also, I sound like Greg here, but I’ve never been overly impressed watching him play (aka the good old eye test). Maybe that’s because most of the time I’d watched him pre-Sox was in the playoffs, where he’s struggled mightily over the course of his career.

I’ve said repeatedly Grandal is a good player. I suppose my opinion is that he’s a “good” player and not a “great” one as so many others here seem to think. I said this in the game thread but everyone here quotes his fWAR number as the basis for being a “top 2 catcher in MLB.” My opinion of him aligns with his bWAR, which you’ll notice is nearly half of his fWAR number over the course of his career.

I don’t think my opinion is extreme at all. The main reason I was less than thrilled with the Grandal signing is because the Sox already had an all star catcher on the roster (some call it a fluke, whatever), a gaping hole in RF, and a lack of depth in the rotation. I preferred the Sox utilize their limited resources on upgrading areas of weakness rather than attempting to upgrade a position that already had a league average starter at the worst, that’s all.

Lol. Didn’t know there was only one right opinion on these matters and it’s clearly not mine! Carry on

Nah, I don’t want to see Grandal fail. He’s a huge piece of the puzzle considering they paid him to be the starting catcher for the next 4 seasons. But I’m still upset they didn’t extend McCann and use the Grandal cost savings to upgrade RF and/or SP.

How so? Those are the stats. And Giolito himself has constantly praised McCann over the last two seasons and attributed much of his success to McCann. Did it again today. Giolito’s a smart dude. This is his not so subtle way of telling Ricky that McCann needs to start when he’s on the mound (while also avoiding a rift with Grandal).

2/3 of those “great” games this year were caught by McCann as well as majority (if not all?) of Giolito’s all star season last year. Finished 6th in Cy Young voting coming off a season in which he sported a 6+ ERA, again without McCann. Sorry, it’s not a SSS or coincidence at this point.

McCann is considered a poor framer by fangraphs but how does fWAR account for this? *Giolito ERA pitching to Grandal: 5.66 *Giolito ERA pitching to McCann: 1.29 and then there’s this as well which I don’t believe even accounted for today’s game... https://mobile.twitter.com/CST_soxvan/status/1296509695633620992

What’s McCann worth to the Sox just based on the fact that their top two pitchers prefer pitching to him and perform better when pitching to him? That alone makes him worth $10M/year imo.

That’s debatable. Right now the #8 and #9 seeds are both .500. 30 wins likely does it but 31 pretty much guarantees it.

Basically, the Sox have to beat out 2 of 3 of Baltimore, Toronto, and Texas. If they can’t do that, they don’t deserve the playoffs anyways.

16 more wins to clinch a playoff spot and snap a 12 year drought.

But will Ricky actually allow that to happen?

This debate isn’t going away any time soon. It will continue into the playoffs. We already know Ricky’s mind is made up but that won’t stop me from critiquing it.

Catcher wasn’t a weakness headed into this season and I’ve long contended that Grandal is overrated. Don’t get me wrong, he’s a good player but not the top two catcher in baseball that everyone makes him out to be imo. Sure could have used that money upgrading starting pitching or RF instead.

Thanks Jack. Looks like my general sense was right!

For sure. Keuchel certainly seems very comfortable with McCann as well. Why again did they commit to Grandal over the next 4 years rather than McCann?

And yet the regular season is almost half over. It’s a sprint this season, not a marathon

I know RR is an idiot and wouldn’t do it but honestly it would be a no brainer for me. If this trend holds thru the next 5 weeks, you have to start McCann in the playoffs, especially for Gio starts.

Looks like some others are starting to see the light!

You forgot the green font!

McCann is easily outplaying him this year. I also hear a lot about Grandal’s framing skills but it seems like our pitchers have performed better with McCann catching than Grandal. I don’t know how to look up CERA but that’s my sense at least.

We need McCann for the playoffs. Don’t trade him