Texsox

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 6, 2007 -> 02:49 PM) Exactly. Except its the back seat of HIS car, not a CTA bus. This isn't about sex, its about sex in public. Whoa, sex in a car would also be illegal. Or better yet, talking to a hooker in a bar. Should that get you arrested? I guess I can see the point of a well orchestrated mating dance getting someone arrested, but it's a slippery slope.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 6, 2007 -> 02:28 PM) That's why there is the legal concept of intent, and here, the manifestation of intent in his behavior. Its not like the cop guessed at it. Quite the contrary. Let's AGAIN go through what Craig did... stared through the crack for an extended period... did the foot tapping... did the foot tapping again... reached under the stall and waved... waved again... reached over in an awkward and otherwise unnatural position and touched his foot... waved AGAIN... THEN the cop showed his badge. There is zero guesswork there. He followed a long process with numerous steps. I can't see how there would be any reasonable doubt as to intent. Same thing if a guy bought a girl a drink, danced, bought another drink, danced, talked about his car's big back seat . . .

QUOTE(BigSqwert @ Sep 6, 2007 -> 02:28 PM) That's why I asked my question "How will it affect you if they were all shipped off?" Will your paycheck be bigger? Will cost of goods decrease? Will our taxes change? I don't understand the overall benefit. Someone enlighten me. Some businesses would suffer when their experienced workers are gone and it takes months to find and train replacements. Some unemployed would find work. Some employers will discover why those people were unemployed. You will see a price increase at businesses who relied on lower wages, restaurants, grocery stores. Your farm good will increase in cost as they struggle to find workers for a three week harvest season. There will be less Spanish spoken. It's a mixed bag. But we do have to stop the flow of illegals and put together a guest worker program that works for American businesses and the workers they need.

People, this is why politicians are so slow in responding to this. These low income jobs result in more benefits being paid than income to the federal budget. Same on down to state and local levels. The only way to avoid the financial drain these low paying jobs create, is to either raise the wages substantially, or hire people off the books. The government looked the other way because it was the cheaper solution. The solution is going to cost us money. No doubt about it. Putting these jobs back on the books will result in more benefits being paid and no increase in tax income. It doesn't matter who is working the job.

QUOTE(Alpha Dog @ Sep 6, 2007 -> 01:34 PM) They are receiving SOME of those benefits, not all. If there were an amnesty, then they would be receiving all. Again, replacing them with legal workers of any nationality, including American, will have the same result.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 6, 2007 -> 01:53 PM) You seem to believe that because someone "has" a social security number, that they are paying all their taxes. No way that is always the case. Not at all, I agree with SS that the lowest income jobs, do not pay income tax, in fact, the receive a profit. Plus, not every citizen with a SS number is paying all their taxes. What I am saying, it's the wages that those jobs pay that determines the net effect economically in our tax balance, not the person who is working the job. Anyone "on the books" making less than the poverty threshold, will receive a net surplus in taxes. We will have an increase in the tax burden when these jobs go on the books, again, it doesn't matter who is working the job.

OK, I guess I can understand why a foot tap and a reach along a stall wall could cause a Senator to lose his position. It still bothers me that someone could be busted because a cop *knows* what you are thinking.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Sep 6, 2007 -> 01:41 PM) Actually I don't believe that I have ever said that the illegals are receiveing benefits. I have said they are burdening social services such as hospitals and jails, but I don't think I ever said anything about government benefits. You make it sound like every single illegal is here using someone else's social security card, paying taxes, and receiving social services. This is not the truth. If it were the truth, one in twenty five person's social security numbers in the whole country has been stolen. As I have stated in the past, anyone who is here committing that kind of fraud, should be deported instantly, and not allowed to return or become a citizen. So if they obtained a SS number they should be deported, and if they are working off the books, they should be deported *and* the company put out of business. So basically we should deport them all and bring in new. How do we afford that?

BTW Tom Delay would never be caught reaching under a stall. Hammer Time '08

QUOTE(BigSqwert @ Sep 6, 2007 -> 01:14 PM) To paraphrase Obama: Who had more experience than Cheney and Rumsfield and look what they did with the war on terror. Best ever: I do miss Reagan's quotes and smile.

QUOTE(FlaSoxxJim @ Sep 6, 2007 -> 12:57 PM) Did you ever see anything so adorable? friend of yours?

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Sep 6, 2007 -> 09:09 AM) I actually agree with this statement. Going on Leno to offically launch your campaign is just asinine and describes to a "T" the demeaning manner in which the office of the president has been dragged down to. It drags down my view of Sen. Thompson quite a bit, actually. He's now my "favorite" GOP candidate, but what he did is so cheap and it really bothers me. I'm trying to remember the last time one of these wasn't staged to a "T". At a firehouse, hometown crowds, etc. Since he has even less experience than Obama, I am certain he won't receive much traction from the GOP loyalists who used that as a reason not to support Obama. BTW, before someone gets their panies in a bunch, I agree the lack of experience is troubling for a candidate regardless of party.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Sep 6, 2007 -> 12:32 PM) There are a ton of government programs out there. I detailed them a few posts ago. Illegals are not getting them. American citizens of the same bottom quartile economic situations are getting this aid. Off of the top of my head, and obviously not all inclusive or that everyone is on all of these... social security, unemployment, medicare, medicade, welfare, energy assistance, food stamps, public education, grant programs, earned income credit. Actually illegals are receiving those benefits, you've said so before. You have stated, and I have agreed, that it is costing the US a considerable sum in aid to illegals working low income jobs. (Those with forged documents, etc.) The only illegals not receiving aid are the ones working jobs "off the books". Once we put those "on the books" and no matter who works them, it's going to cost us. Perhaps this is when we cut back these programs for the working poor.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Sep 6, 2007 -> 12:08 PM) Citizens are already here and factored into the equation. Illegals are here and not paid for. If they are legalized, they will be added to all of the federal programs they are able to receive. Why is that such a weird concept? If you have two children and pay their bills you have your budget. Then if your neighbor three kids decide to move in, and you decide to take care of them, you are now caring for five people, on basically the same budget. If you tell them to go back next door, then you are only paying for two people. So you are not refering to workers, just the unemployed? Where I am coming from is take those that are working, removing them and replacing them with citizens will not make a difference at all. When you talk about the bottom 4% of earners having a net income, I assume you were talking about workers ans in that situation it just doesn't matter. I've never been for allowing people without means of support come here. All immigration should be tied to jobs.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Sep 6, 2007 -> 11:52 AM) So adding 12 million new people will not have an economic impact? Let's set aside the 12,000,000 number. As already noted, many of these workers have social security numbers and are already in the system. Of course it will. But how will filling those jobs with immigrants cost more than filling them with citizens?

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QUOTE(Kid Gleason @ Sep 6, 2007 -> 11:25 AM) Maybe Bea will show up for a Strip-O-Gram!!! delete delte delete you bastard for getting that stuck in my head . . .

QUOTE(sox4lifeinPA @ Sep 6, 2007 -> 10:48 AM) that's not a puppet...that's just what it looks like your avatar's got a crotch shot of its own. Mine is what God intended, some some godless thing you posted. I guess you have to dress it up to keep it interesting for the missus

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Sep 6, 2007 -> 10:51 AM) Really? yep.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Sep 6, 2007 -> 10:51 AM) The vast majority of illegal immigrants are people who are leaving bad situations. If they were rich, they probably wouldn't be coming here in the first place. Now, granted there are exceptions, but people who are leaving good situations are also the ones who can afford to go through the legal means to get here, so they aren't people who usually would factor into the 12 million people that are being discussed. Now I did notice you instantly turned this into a racial thing, why is that? If you want to discuss an issue that is one thing, but race baiting is played out. Not a race thing. What is the difference between a new immigrant working a $14,000 year job and a citizen. What additional benefits does an immigrant take that a citizen would not? We agree that the working poor consume more in benefits then they contribute. I just have never seen a difference between a lifelong citizen and a new immigrant in the economic impact.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Sep 6, 2007 -> 10:52 AM) What? Oops, sorry, we do accept Judaism. But those crazy radical religions, we drop bombs on. Notice we have not bombed a Christian or Jewish country . . .

That is a very interesting issue facing China. And since, as Americans, we want every non-Christian religion destroyed, good for us.

QUOTE(sox4lifeinPA @ Sep 6, 2007 -> 10:42 AM) why don't you come back to my place and I'll help you figure it out *wink* ^^^^^^ Avatar Is that a creepy puppet in your lap or are you *ahh never mind*

QUOTE(Rex Kicka** @ Sep 6, 2007 -> 08:58 AM) I plan on celebrating this birthday like I celebrate all holidays, quietly sitting on the trunk of my car drinking a case of malt liquor in the parking lot. Thanks! Harkens back to the days of winoDJ

QUOTE(Rex Kicka** @ Sep 6, 2007 -> 09:05 AM) You know what? I don't buy this argument. I think there was little else the Senator was insinuating by playing footsie under a bathroom stall wall and passing his hand through the gap and creepily staring at the guy through the gap for several minutes. I like to think I'm as sex-positive as the next guy, but I don't believe that sex in public bathrooms should be legal, and I do think that propositioning someone to join them in the stall for sex is the same thing, especially when using established protocol to do so. The only thing wrong with what happened is that the Senator didn't get charged with the correct, more serious charge that he should have been charged with - and that was probably because of his influence as a Senator. Do those actions always result in public sex for willing partners, or could it result in "come back to my place"? I guess that is where I am still confused.