Texsox

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ May 14, 2006 -> 04:26 PM) I suppose I'm obligated to respond... To put this as plainly as I can, I prefer to judge people on their actions and not their associations. People who are violent need to be punished - those that are not should not. And I refuse to apply the actions of one or even many to an entire religion, race or nation. The religion isn't the problem (for Islam or any other of the big ones). Its the actions that people falsely attribute to its tenets. That is why these are "extremists". Really, they are just looking for an excuse. An excuse for the poverty and corruption in their countries, which should be directed at their own governments. And to an extent, an excuse for hating the West for intruding so disastrously in their affairs - a valid thing to be upset about. I agree that Islam has an image problem. Many of the nations which have large Islamic populations are in dire straits on many fronts, which is in great part what is causing the rising hatred. So perhaps we need to be focusing on this governments, instead of religion. Of course, it might also help if we had the balls to stand up and admit what part we had in their misfortunes, because we are not free of culpubility here. But I'm afraid that is highly unlikely to happen. At this point, I'd settle for us getting our cannons focused on the right targets. Well said. I highlighted a couple things I thought were especially insightful.

QUOTE(Rex Kickass @ May 16, 2006 -> 01:36 AM) NBC accidentally gave a false cue. They were running the pool coverage tonight. liberals are perfect and never make mistakes, so this must be Bush bashing

QUOTE(Rex Kickass @ May 16, 2006 -> 09:19 PM) Immigrants are the new gays. Who took over for commies, good call.

QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ May 16, 2006 -> 01:39 PM) Yeah. With the sheer number of s***bags in this country who are either addicted or want them for recreational use, there will always be a market for narcotics. That's an enforcement issue more than anything. Remember Nancy Reagan and just say no!

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ May 16, 2006 -> 01:20 PM) What would get their attention quicker is to have a requirement of citizenship to wire money to outside of the USA. That's a great idea, something I can agree with. There will be some resistance from people who routinly buy money orders, VISA gift cards, and travelers checks who will object to proving citizenship before purchasing them. And I'll bet some stores will object to having to train their clerks to check for citizenship papers before selling them. Perhaps we could require a passport before purchasing money orders? Makes sense to me and the government would make money selling passports. We also have to pressure Mexico to lower how much in purchases their citizens can bring back. Right now, illegals could buy a bunch of clothes and stuff up to $500 and take them back across the border. Perhaps limiting much in goods someone could take with them as they leave the country would also be necessary. An illegal could just buy stuff and sell it back there. That would also lessen the appeal of being here illegally. Whether they are buying stuff and sending it or just sending cash, it is benefiting the people they are sending it to and is their motivation to be here. I was thinking about that $3 per hour illegal, which is about $6000 per year. After buying food and shelter, maybe some used clothes, how much is he sending back? I'll bet you and I send more than that overseas each year. Everytime we buy a shirt from Honduras, a car from Japan, or a pair of Nike's, money goes overseas. Starting now, I'm going back to buying all American. I've never bought a foreign built car, and never will, that would be sending big bucks overseas. I'm proud to say my employer has everything made in the USA. All of our suppliers are USA and most are Union. Doesn't get anymore American than that.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ May 16, 2006 -> 06:27 PM) Wait... are there people who think that the PA flight was shot down, and that fact was covered up? I don't get that. Why would they do that? To me, given Bush's political style, I'd think that the shoot-down would actually be something he'd want to take credit for. Not because of the people that died, but because of the decision it means he made. Lives would have potentially been saved. There is a conspiracy for everything. This one centers around the crater and the plane. The reasoning for shooting it down follows the logic of, we can't gain control of the plane, the plane is going to fly into something and kill many more people, possibly tens of thousands (early death toll estimate for World Trade Towers), the passengers are doomed anyways, let's minimize the casualties. The military shooting down a civilian plane, full of innocent US citizens, wouldn't be something anybody would want to take credit for.

I don't think releasing the tape will stop anything. The conspiracy nuts will still have an answer. I have no doubt a plane hit the Pentagon while being flown by a terrorist. Now the last plane, that one I could be persuaded was brought down in a lightly populated area instead of allowing it to continue and cause even more damage. If that was the case, and I believe it is far fetched, my prayers are with President Bush for having to make that decision and the pilots that carried out the mission. That is about the toughest call any US President would have had to make.

QUOTE(minors @ May 16, 2006 -> 05:10 PM) It scares me the thought of how many terrorists have crossed over that border and will continue to cross over. Don't be scared, why would a terrorist risk the walk when they can get tourist and students visas? They have the monetary resources to get in legally, and once they are here, we can't track all of them. More Americans have been killed by US Military trained US citizens in terrorist attacks than anyone walking in from Mexico. Be scared of tourists, students, and ex-military. They are the ones killing Americans. QUOTE(WilliamTell @ May 16, 2006 -> 05:17 PM) Yeah, and it also scares me about how this country will look in 50 years if we don't change this now. Yeah, that 5% unemployement rate would really suck. Hopefully your children and your grandchildren will be able to work those manual labor jobs that immigrants are currently working. We need your children to step up and take jobs as bus boys, farm laborors, yard men. We need them to grab mops, brooms, and shovels and save America

QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ May 16, 2006 -> 04:46 PM) Tex. That statement is every bit as silly as it is wrong. The government is in as much trouble as it is with debt because it spends money like a teenage girl at Abercrombie & Fitch. When politicians get it through their heads that we can't spend like we have been then things will improve. As Ive said a million times before........if the government can't cut back on their spending habit then they needn't bother asking me for more in taxes. You just said it was wrong and agreed with me at the same time.

QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ May 16, 2006 -> 02:47 PM) Do that and cut a couple of billion from the defense budget and you can hire all the BP agents you need as well as put up a fence that nobody could cross. We don't collect taxes to pay for anything, we collect, or don't collect taxes to stimulate the economy. Let's cut taxes 25%, borrow a couple hundred billion from China, and get after this problem. We cut taxes to fight the war in Iraq, let's cut taxes to fix the border.

Monday was the toughest day, I also thought of Manic Monday.

A spin off of the immigration thread. I am surprised that the agriculture industry isn't more in the news "up north" but based on a couple commments, I guess it isn't. I guess farming isn't all that interesting to city folks. A disturbing trend in agriculture, is we have begun importing more food then we export in some months. The US has been a huge exporter to the world and to have to become balanced, and then tilt to the other side, is a dangerous trend. Why has that happened? A few things. One reason is agriculture is an industry like many others. Every industry that involves large amount if unskilled labor has moved out of the US. The best example I can offer is textiles. Not too many shirts being sewn in the US anymore. How many of your local high schools offere Ag programs anymore? Our local school has gone from a staff of 6 to 2. These are not high demand careers. The land values make selling out attractive. Once they sell out, there isn't the desire to purchase more land and restart the farm. Food choices. We want melons in January. This can only be done by farming closer to the equator. Environmental laws are not as strict which allows for more pesticides than in the US. Another trend in the remaining US programs are more and more large scale corporate farming. That is an encouraging trend because of economies of scale. There are some practices that need to improve, like planting a variety of one crop in case of disease or insects which may be strain dependent. Is there a danger for future generations to have be dependent on other countries to feed them. I believe so. As we lose capability we are more dependent on foreign supplies which is not in our national security interest. Of course this isn't a problem that will happen next year, but we are heading down a path that will effect our grandchildren. I guess it depends on your vision and how important leaving behind a better America is to you.

QUOTE(minors @ May 16, 2006 -> 12:36 AM) First of all National Guard are trained soldiers so the only way this situation happens is if the good ole family man shoots first. Secondly if this guy was trying to make a good life for his family why doesn't he come over legally maybe its the fact that they don't want to pay taxes or wants to live off the government or has something to hide. You do realize these are people's backyards they are patrolling. Perhaps you would enjoy living in a military zone, many of us on the border would prefer a different approach.

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funny stuff

QUOTE(Leonard Zelig @ May 15, 2006 -> 08:50 PM) Wasn't Buehrle telling him to go to first? Yes he was, nice call

Southsider, what percentage of the illegals do you believe are working without paperwork and what percentage are working with false papers? And what do you base that number on? I am in an area where it is very easy to hire undocumented workers, I am within the 50 mile range where you can visit but your aren't suppose to work. I've enver heard of anyone paying that low. How can anyone live in America on $120 per week and zero government benefits? Far more are working on false or ake social security numbers and getting paid minimum wage or better. This allows the employer to have some plausible denyability if they were to get caught. I do agree that once legal, these workers will be more likely to apply for all of the government programs there wage status would allow.

QUOTE(Controlled Chaos @ May 15, 2006 -> 08:47 AM) I was somewhat questioning it at first. I was looking for the 5-4-3 triple play. When he called the 3-4-6, I definitely had my doubts. I'm glad it all worked out though and I'm enjoying my crow. Nice Job Coop!! In the Cooper thread

QUOTE(mr_genius @ May 15, 2006 -> 04:37 PM) they also need to pay a fine Sure. How about community service projects instead, that is the option we offer here for low income people?

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ May 15, 2006 -> 10:28 AM) On a play like that you get the quickest out you can get. The way the play took Konerko his quickest look was first base, and it could very well have been if he looks at first, looks at second, that he would have gotten no one. On a bang-bang play you take the first out that you see. Hindsite does dictate that he would have had the triple play regardless, but you get what you can get in a game situation. I just looked at the replay again, and you are right. I was thinking charging in, and being a righty, he would have been looking more towards third and seeing the lead runner, than the guy behind him going to second. But he kind of half turned as he caught it.

QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ May 15, 2006 -> 04:20 PM) Tex. We've been over this ground before. Take away their social benefits and their ill-gotten jobs and they will leave on their own. Make them legal if they have a clean criminal history, a good job history, and can demonstrate the ability to support them and we won't have to gamble that the replacement person is a decent person.

QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ May 15, 2006 -> 02:16 PM) As long as they come through the gate and I know who's coming in and out I dont have a problem with it. I have to add, and there is a job waiting for them.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ May 15, 2006 -> 01:03 PM) Again deporting all illegals is very different than stopping all immigration. No one has called for stopping immigration. You are lumping it all together when it is apples and oranges. Yes. Seems obvious to me. Yes, no one. I didn't mean to lump deportation and immigration into one, sorry if it came off that way. The only thing connecting them is what to do with the current population while deciding on the new immigrants. I believe if you are already here, haven't been in any trouble, have a good employment history, you should stay before someone standing at the gate. And since no one is advocating deportation, I guess we all agree. Unless we want to add a few million to our prison population. Any more thoughts on the food situation? I wasn't trying to have my cake and eat it too.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ May 15, 2006 -> 11:55 AM) Well if we are the worlds largest unemployment office, why are we worrying about Mexico so much, when we could be helping people who REALLY need it, such as the victims of war and genocide in Africa, who would literally kill to be here, or the families torn apart by something like the 2004 tsunami and have nothing left but disease and poverty? If our roll is to help the rest of the world, there are many, many countries in worse shape than our neighbors to the south, including the Central American countries who Mexico refuses to help. Amen. We are always better off at sending money to people, (tsunami, Iraq, Africa) but we really hate it when they show up at our doorstep and want to work.

QUOTE(YASNY @ May 15, 2006 -> 12:16 PM) Most people ... Most ... want to stop illegal immigration, not just immigration. Right, including you and me. And I look at illegal vs legal this way. And I know you will be one of these that will at least understand my point, although you may or may not agree. There are some laws that are Biblical in nature. Murder, stealing, etc. Those are wrong, have been forever. Then there are things that are only illegal because some folks in Washington say they are wrong. Is it illegal for an 20-year old to drink? That changes based on where on this planet you are standing. I don't see any Biblical guidance in immigration, so we have to do what is right for the majority. I also want to do what is right for America first. Our disagreement is what is right for America and what is an acceptable method to combat the "crime" that is created with our laws. Someone walks from point A to point B. Is it legal? Again, that depends on what someone in Washington decides. We decide what is legal and illegal immigration. We could decide to throw open the border and call that legal. That would be a disaster, we all agree. So the debate is what should be legal and what should be illegal. I believe in allowing as many as can support themselves, with a program that would offer citizenship based on a set criteria. I also believe that would do enough to solve this problem and that a wall and turning my backyard into a military zone is unnecessary. QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ May 15, 2006 -> 12:28 PM) Ah, having our cake and eating it too I see. Where exactly should we keep putting people, without plowing under farm land? Higher highrises? Also how are we going to feed more people, with less farmland, meanwhile importing less food and growing more of our own. Sounds like a little self-contradictory to me. MOST don't want to stop immigration. They want to stop UNCONTROLED, ILLEGAL immigration. BIG BIG difference between the two. I haven't seen one person on here at all say that ALL immigration should be stopped. If there has been, I would love for you to find me a link. I agree with you 100% on that. But, from seeing major operations getting busted down here, we should make stopping CONTROLLED, illegal immigration our first priority. And some did mention deporting all the legals. You know enforce the law and all that. Getting to the food, the problem is as we plow up close to urban center farmland, we are not creating far from urban center farmland. It isn't that we don't have the land, it is farmers are selling out and quiting the industry because over seas production is cheaper and year round, especially in South America. Does that make sense? The other issue is the mega-corporate owed farms are not planting the diversity of crops that happened with smaller, less centralized agriculture. The gamble is these crops are not vulnerable to a specific disease.