Texsox

QUOTE(mr_genius @ May 14, 2006 -> 07:41 PM) lol you might be the biggest apologist for mexico i have ever met. no offense. oh, and i agree with you on the drug issue. prohibition doesn't work. No offense taken. I'm the only one here who has worked in Mexico, lives on the border, has friends on both sides of the border. I see firsthand the good, not just the bad, in immigration and tourism. I know first hand the destruction that will occur along the border without a free flow back and forth between the interior borders.

QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ May 14, 2006 -> 06:04 PM) Mexico has 2 main exports to the United States. Drugs and poor people. They are not going to do anything concrete to improve the situation on the border no matter how much money we give them. They simply wish to export their poverty problem to this country instead of doing something on their own to solve the problem. Its the same deal with narcotics. Their government is an order of magnitude more corrupt than even the Daley administration is in Chicago. Its way past time they were punished for their misconduct. If America didn't have a drug usage problem, Mexico wouldn't have to spend so much of the GNP on keeping Columbians and other SA drug cartels from terrorizing Mexico and shipping drugs to the US. Most of those drugs are coming through Mexico, no originating in Mexico. Mexico, in cooperation with US DEA, has irradicated most crops. Of course your plan to cut aid to Mexico would cause them to cut back on drug enforcement, worsening the problem. Mexico is fighting, and making great strides in dealing with the drug cartels. Of course they are using resources they could be using to help their poor. Americans stop using illegal drugs, there is no market, no smuggling, and Mexico wins. It is way past the time for America to recognize the problems that America's illegal drug usage problem has around the world. When feeding drugs to Americans, who are willing to spend huge amounts of money for them, is more lucrative than selling legitimate crops, you have to stop the demand. BTW, natural gas and oil are big sellers also. Mexico is also a huge producer of food crops to the US. US aid has gone to improving the conditions in the fields, which results in better produce for us. Vincente Fox is working hard to produce a middle class in Mexico. You are correct, corruption is screwing the average Mexican. But abandoning Mexico and letting them fall farther behind, undermines out security and hurts all of North America. QUOTE(samclemens @ May 14, 2006 -> 06:54 PM) come on, man, be realistic. you really think that any money we give that country doesnt go directly into corrupt officials' pockets? and by the way, mexico is not part of the US; it's THEIR responsibility to fix their own damn economy (this is the same general arguement that libs on here oppose iraq- yes, i selectively reason on different issues). it's our job to keep out illegals. the real solution is to very strictly enforce the laws. if the gov't would actually crack down and simply enforce the immigration laws to a T, making harsh examples out of a few businesses, you would see a hell of a change in a short amount of time. Sam, I see the projects. I've worked with Mexico officials are Director of the South Texas Manufacturers Association. I read in the papers the drug busts. I talk to people who live there. I worked for years in Mexico. Sure Mexico has some corrupt officials, so do American charities. A prosperous Mexico helps us. It offers markets for our exports, for one.

QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ May 14, 2006 -> 11:57 AM) Ok. The NUKE_CLEVELAND immigration reform plan. -Guest worker program. That fills the need for migrant labor picking fruit or whatever it is they're needed for and if they want to become full citizens then let them stand in line like everybody else. -Border fence all along the Mexican frontier save for places where it isn't practical like over mountains. Those regions can be covered by UAV's and if anyone makes it all the way across they would be snatched up by heli-borne teams of BP agents. Have the fence guarded by Border Patrol and National Guard troops until the BP can be fully staffed and funded. -Take away all social services from illegal aliens save for emergency medical care. We can recoup funds spent on that by cutting off foregin aid to Mexico and re-directing that money to paying back the states who are forced to deal with these people. -Its also time to seriously crack down on business who hire illegals. Give business a 6 month grace period to purge their rolls of undocumented workers and replace them with new hires from the guest worker program. After that........ICE comes in and starts randomly checking records to ensure things are on the up and up. If caught in violation levy massive fines. Fines that would eliminate the incentive to exploit migrant labor. The only way to change bad business behavior is to hit them in the pocketbook. Additionally, ensure that these people are being paid at least the federal minimum wage. -Make English the official language of this country. When my ancestors came to this country they had a choice. They could either work hard and assimilate or they would fall by the wayside. It should be no different for immigrants today. I don't see any reason why this country, or any other for that matter, should bend into 5 different contorted positions to accomodate these people. Before you go on about too much stick and not enough carrot, remember that illegal aliens are just that. Illegal. They are criminals from the moment they set foot on U.S. soil and the Mexican government and U.S businesses are complicit in all of it. Im in favor of immigration but it has to be done in a controlled and orderly fashion. This business of people running across the border in the dead of the night has got to stop. Point one, I agree, except if they are here working, they are ahead of someone who isn't here. We have history in our country and know if they can be good citizens or not. Fence, worthless when illegals are trucked in, come in along the frontiera on temp visas etc. holes can get cut, better to make legal easy enough that there is no incentive to hire illegals or be an illegal. Cutting off aid to Mexico makes the problem worse. We want them to help keep drugs from getting to our users, we want them to cut pollution that reaches the US, we want them to upgrade their border crossing to help our businesses. We do not want them to have a big military, so we offer protection, etc. We want to keep them an ally. Bottom line, cutting aid to Mexico then adds a carrot to come to the US. That would not help. The better Mexico is doing, the less of an incentive there is for their population to leave. I like the proposal for handling businesses. Exactly what I would recommend. I don't know if 6-months is too much or two little time. I also think there should be some sanity based on what paperwork was turned in to the employer. I find it difficult to blame a business if they are fooled by a good forgery. I'm not certain what making English the official language would do. Would you fine businesses for speaking Spanish? We want our tourisim offices to speak as many different languages as possible. Down here, most of the population is bi-lingual, why force two people to speak English when they can just as easily speak Spanish? I don't want to wait in line while someone takes five minutes struggling with English when it would take 30 seconds in Spanish. I believe government should service the population, not vice versa. Assimilate? By having someone translate a government form for them? Unless you require businesses to only speak English, and what do multi-national companies do, this will only effect how the government works. Our economy is global in nature, why we would encourage isolationism, is beyond me.

QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ May 14, 2006 -> 10:59 AM) That would be a valid argument if myself and the others on this board were on record back in 1994 as opposing these types of measures. I am pointing out the post that because Clinton first authorized it, any Dem against it is a hypocrit is wrong. Liberals do not march in lockstep with everything Clinton, or any Dem did. So now saying because it was created during Clinton's term, all Dems must support it is silly. Also, we've seen many times when a law is created and sold to the American public to do "A" and then it is applied to "B". Maybe conservatives a prepared to defend anything Bush does, and y'all think that is what Americans are suppose to do.

QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ May 14, 2006 -> 11:01 AM) Id rather use monies being wasted on educating, providing health care and welfare for a group of people who don't even belong in this country in the first place. So, explain how your program works? What are you doing with the existing population, where are the replacement workers coming from, and what are the budget implications?

It's sad when citizens are expected to toe the party line and support everything a party does. If someone wants to call it liberal hypocrisy to now support everything, so be it. I am scared when people stop thinking for themselves and just pledge allegiance to one party and everything they do.

QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ May 14, 2006 -> 10:41 AM) Well at least you acknowledge that they're costing us billions of dollars. Now how about using those funds to deal with our own poor people instead of letting Vicente Fox export his own poverty problem to the US? As I stated, the costs would be there regardless of documented or undocumented. Our unemployement rate remains low, and has been for decades. Leading me to conclude that we actually need these workers. So how about using those fence funds to deal with our own poor people?

Tough on crime by executing criminals for any offenses, and toss in the occassional assassination of a foreign leader, and you'd have a great day. So why is it we try and stop other countries who do that stuff?

QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ May 14, 2006 -> 10:27 AM) You're arguments are reduced to making fun of others in this issue and that's what's truly funny. Reagan didn't solve anything with his amnesty, he made the situation far worse. Bush is taking the right step forward with his guest worker program but thats all it is is a first step. You have to have a stick to go along with the carrot. Those "harmless" farmers and gardners are costing states billions of dollars a year, destroying the lives of farmers and ranchers who reside along the border and allow the Mexican government to export its problem to the United States. But you're too busy laughing to see any of this. :rolly And a guest worker program, that allows for workers that America needs, is controlled, and allows for citizenship after a set criteria is met, solves this without turning the border into a prison zone. It allows for the economic benefits that border communities derive from Mexican tourists. It allows for the labor that American industries need. Yes, poor people cost us billions of dollars, no matter their citizenship. Poor people don't pay much, if any, in taxes, so that is a false argument. It isn't their legal status that costs billions, it's their income. Replace undocumented with documented, and the cost is still there. Make immigration easier, resulting in less resources necessary to enforce the law, costs us less. This isn't about securing the borders, it's about controlling Mexican immigration. That can be accomplished without spending billions on a 2000 mile long fence. This issue has been around forever. Interesting timing that conservatives all of a sudden want to make it our nation's #1 problem.

QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ May 14, 2006 -> 10:22 AM) They should have flown him out to one of our "secret prisons" in the Middle East or Eastern Europe and let some CIA attack dogs have their way with him but I guess this will do. Our constitution really takes away all your fun. Ironically, you would have a much better time working for the types of regimes the US is fighting. Torture? Check. Spying on citizens? Check. Military patrols in civilian areas? Check.

^^^^^^^^ LMAO. Why did stopping Mexican poor people become our worse problem requiring billions of dollars and resources? Perhaps Republicans are looking for something to divert our attention from all the legal troubles at the White House? Reagan solved this by offering amnesty. Bush offered a guest worker program. Conservatives are so desperate for something to divert attention they are fighting the boogey men. We need a fence to save us from illiterate Mexcians or else our society is doomed, doomed we say! Don't stop and think that the worst terrorists in our history where either US citizens, trained by the US military, or came in through Canada. Doomed if we don't build a wall. We will be destroyed by gardners and farm workers

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/05/13/moussaou...ison/index.html

She looks like you :-) I pray she grows out of that :-)

QUOTE(samclemens @ May 14, 2006 -> 08:51 AM) http://www.nysun.com/article/32651 "It was President Clinton who signed into law the Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act of 1994, after it was passed in both the House and Senate by a voice vote. That law is an act "to make clear a telecommunications carrier's duty to cooperate in the interception of communications for law enforcement purposes, and for other purposes." The act made clear that a court order isn't the only lawful way of obtaining call information, saying, "A telecommunications carrier shall ensure that any interception of communications or access to call-identifying information effected within its switching premises can be activated only in accordance with a court order or other lawful authorization." liberal hypocrisy, straight up. Do conservatives support everything Republicans have ever done?

The only way we can keep terrorists from taking out freedoms, is if we voluntarily give them up The rights are only there to protect guilty people. We don't need freedom of speech if we don't say things the government doesn't like. We don't need legal protection from the government searching our homes anytime they like, if we don't have anything in our homes that the government doesn't like. We don't need our guns, the government has plenty. If the government telle me I don't need rights to stay alive, then let's give them up.

Since this fence will never be erected this is pointless. Y'all keep swatting mosquitos with elephant rifles. A guest worker program makes these people legal, which viola eliminate the need for us to live in a prison, because in your words, their first act wouldn't violate our laws. But since it's what Bush wants to do, and y'all are always anti-Bush, I guess you just have to fight everything he proposes. Support the President

greedy bastard

QUOTE(kapkomet @ May 13, 2006 -> 09:55 PM) WOOHOOOO! ONE STEP CLOSER TO IMPEACHMENT!

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ May 13, 2006 -> 07:17 PM) My cousin worked there about 10 years ago and said it was perhaps the funnest job he ever held. Mentioned several times how his friends and him would typically steal hundreds of dollars from their post every week. As well as hitting on women all day while not doing much work at all. Guess things changed from the time he worked and you did. It can be the department. I was in ride operations and had a blast, a buddy worked food ops and hated it. I opened and hit the golf course every afternoon.

QUOTE(YASNY @ May 13, 2006 -> 09:27 AM) Whatever it takes to secure our border. Secure from what? You honestly don't think that erecting a 2000 mile wall, costing hundreds of billions of dollars, is an over reaction? Are we so afraid of illiterate Mexican peasants we need a wall to protect us?

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ May 12, 2006 -> 04:28 PM) Texas to get nation's largest wind farm. I thought Rush was moving to Texas. Seriously that is right where I live and creates an interesting dilema. The area is moving away from agriculture and towards tourism, especially eco-tourism and birders are the #1 growth industry. The World Birding Headquarters is located here. It is the spot in North America for birding. My understanding is the turbines will be in an area that isn't visited much, so visually it shouldn't be much of a problem, but promoting the area as the center of the birding universe and having a bird shop-o-matic spinning, seems to be at odds.

Welcome to fatherhood, the coolest thing in the world.

Please keep the following people in your prayers Rowand44 and his family especially his mom John Rivera and his family Kap and his new baby, what a blessing

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ May 13, 2006 -> 03:21 AM) My mom has breast cancer. My parents have known for about a month but they didn't tell me cause they didn't want me to get freaked out with finals and s*** coming up. It was such a weird feeling when she told me, I didn't know what to do. Sorry to hear that.