Texsox

For the same reason you mention GOP+Fed, DEM+State, Tex+Hannity I believe this has crossed party lines for us amateurs. Our partisan elected officials have to be concerned about every issue and how it will be perceived. When the President can't grab a quick BJ from an intern in the oval office to relieve stress, you know politics are everywhere. That's just a fact of life for a political professional. It's their livelihood.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 23, 2005 -> 08:50 PM) That's a fun list, in my mind I was already assigning peoples names I am definitely the "lifer: I don't see myself on the list, but you my friend, are definitely the lifer. I look at the bottom of my screen and your name is always there, I finally decided to add this 3am to 5 am shift to get away from you. BTW, that ends during next off season. I see that post count dropping like a rock.

QUOTE(Kid Gleason @ Mar 23, 2005 -> 06:50 PM) Censorship? Hardly. This board, and most boards are owned by individuals. You are posting here free of charge because somebody loves something enough to give people a place to discuss it, and other like interest. YOU are in somebody else's house. If you came into my house, my actual house, and started doing anything against my house rules, I would throw you out or shut you up. Not to be rude, but that is basically what it boils down to. The owner of this site wants it to be a certain way, if you break the rules of his house, he/she has trusted other people to watch and maintain the place. In this day and age of the internet people seem to like to use the word "censorship", and it gets used wrongly all the time. If you send a letter into a magazine, it gets edited. It isn't "censorship", it is editing. That is what an editor is for. No author ever sees their first draft make it to publishing, and few writers ever do. The board is kind of the same way, these mods are just trying to follow the rules, and follow them the best that they can. If you don't like the "censorship" you will encounter on a board, get some money together, and start your own board. I hit another site all the time. A group of people decided to break away and start a site free of "censorship". Within a month it was the most heavily moderated site I have ever seen, and within 5 months it was a ghost town. You might not like the editing, but it is what helps keeping people coming back.

QUOTE(Kid Gleason @ Mar 23, 2005 -> 06:50 PM) Censorship? Hardly. This board, and most boards are owned by individuals. You are posting here free of charge because somebody loves something enough to give people a place to discuss it, and other like interest. YOU are in somebody else's house. If you came into my house, my actual house, and started doing anything against my house rules, I would throw you out or shut you up. Not to be rude, but that is basically what it boils down to. The owner of this site wants it to be a certain way, if you break the rules of his house, he/she has trusted other people to watch and maintain the place. In this day and age of the internet people seem to like to use the word "censorship", and it gets used wrongly all the time. If you send a letter into a magazine, it gets edited. It isn't "censorship", it is editing. That is what an editor is for. No author ever sees their first draft make it to publishing, and few writers ever do. The board is kind of the same way, these mods are just trying to follow the rules, and follow them the best that they can. If you don't like the "censorship" you will encounter on a board, get some money together, and start your own board. I hit another site all the time. A group of people decided to break away and start a site free of "censorship". Within a month it was the most heavily moderated site I have ever seen, and within 5 months it was a ghost town. You might not like the editing, but it is what helps keeping people coming back. Ditto Kid ( since I've been hanging with the GOPerheads this week, I thought I'd try out the lingo and be a dittohead. )

One amazing thing about our society has unfolded this week. The "Most Powerful Man on Earth", the President of the United States, is limited to the powers we have given him. Leaders from Florida to the White House are trying to right a wrong they see, yet they can not by royal decree, intimidation, executive orders, bribery. or any other means arbitrarily have their way. I believe it is what makes our country great. Checks and balances. Even in life and death decisions.

YASNY, Excellent point, but I haven't seen this as a liberal vs. conservative issue. At least in my corner of the globe, the people I've spoken to don't seem to be split down party lines. Church affiliation and having children are the two biggest divides I could see. This is an admittedly small sample and may or may not reflect society as a whole, I do not wish to generalize or marginalize anyone's opinions because they may or may not belong to any of the groups mentioned (I have to throw that in or Jackie will jump on my ass :banghead ) It seems that some people are focused in on the greater good of the patient. I think Steff has done a wonderful service in expressing that point of view against all critics. I believe most people would not wish to survive in that condition and whatever means gets her to that end, is ok. Don't worry about the details, do what is best for Terri. The do what's best for Terri crowd also includes people who believe that any human life is worth living. There is no minimum requirement for IQ, memory, personality, etc. to be kept alive. They are also likely to have strong feelings for the parents and their wishes, recognizing the parent-child bonds as absolute. Others become wrapped up in the moral authority issue of who has the right to decide if she lives or dies, and from what basis is that moral right given. The legal right has been decided and the legally binding contract of marriage allows the husband that omniscient power over his wife's live.This is the same legal system that until a couple decades ago felt it was impossible for one spouse to rape another. Our opinions of marriage are moving towards individual rights. Perhaps this case will spur more examination and reflection on the rights of spouses. With close to half the marriages ending in divorce, maybe the laws need to reflect the temporary nature of marriage vs. the lifelong contract that was more the norm when many of the basic underpinning of our laws were written. I obviously fall in the last category. From what I have seen and heard the parents have stayed dedicated to Terri, while the husband has created a new life for himself. At this point, in this case, I would prefer the parents making the decision. I do not necessarily agree with their decision, but I defend their right to make it.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 23, 2005 -> 06:58 PM) Especially since it has been widely reported that her parents are the ones who encouraged him to go out and start seeing other people, even going so far as to set him up with other people. And get a divorce and leave Terri to them. To bad the plan backfired. He has two wives.

QUOTE(winodj @ Mar 23, 2005 -> 06:25 PM) You think that after 7 years of fighting to grant her her final wish, that he might have run out of sadness? Wino, the only one that seems to be saying it was her final wishes is him. You believe the guy, others don't. At the minimum, his motives should be questioned. Remember this is not a case of Doctors advising her family that there was no hope and they should remove the feeding tube. The husband is requesting the tube be removed.

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Mar 23, 2005 -> 06:21 PM) Not true, at least in this case. From webmd, a doctor at the Univ of Rochester:Here's the link. Jackie, I was not commenting on her exact situation, but adressing the quoted comment that brain cells do not grow back. Sorry for the confusion. If you study stroke victims, people with injuries, etc. That is what happens. Of course if there isn't healthy cells available, that would not be possible. But since you seem to want to jump on everything I write, have at it. :banghead

Maybe he said it in green? I think everyone deserves a second chance. If he has a clean record, I'd keep him on and trust he doesn't make the same mistake twice. Phrases I heard behind the scenes in an ER Pass the Bible, he's studying for the final . . . Gomer (he's gone, no hope) We wasted clean sheets on a guy whose going to die in a couple minutes? These were all dedicated, caring people who entered a profession to help people and used gallows humor to cope. I know a pediatric oncology nurse who used whatever he could find in the narcotic cabinet.

All the forum mods suck Have a little compassion for the mods. They are volunteers trying to create a community. As far as restrictions on the Internet, of course different sites have different tolerance levels. We try for a PG13 to light R rating. We over step it sometimes and perhaps err too much on the other side but overall I think the volunteers have done a great job. One area we get into is common usage ion one age group isn't common usage and has a totally different meaning in another. Caution wins.

QUOTE(Steff @ Mar 23, 2005 -> 05:26 PM) Brain cells don't grow back.. she is never going to improve. What happens is other areas of the brain take over for the damaged areas. Brain cells are a use it or lose proposition which is why his refusing basic things like taking her outside and holding a wet towel, are so objectionable. It is far easier for me to side with the parents on motives. Would anyone here want to care for Terri for the rest of your life? The husband is free. It seems like he wins of he gets his way, if the parents get theirs, they are in for a lot of work.

QUOTE(Steff @ Mar 23, 2005 -> 05:10 PM) I don't know why him having another "life" doesn't bother me like it does others.. I guess because if this was me I would not want Jim stopping his life for me if he was told by several doctors that there was no hope and after 7 years I did not improve. I'd want him to have someone to turn to for comfort. You guys are human.. and with that is the need for companionship. I don't think it makes his decision easier.. I think it makes it more tolerable. I agree 100%. And it is also what I would want my wife to do. But my wife and I also agree that if our parents were willing to care for us, we would want that. If by being kept alive we could make our parents happy, we would. It seems like a fair deal for the people who gave us life. Steff, I admire your steadfastness on this issue. It is a difficult decision for most people to say that an innocent human is better off dead. I think your compassion for Terri is genuine and hope you don't mind our difference of opinion. I still think the husband is not the kind of person I would want my daughter to marry.

I tried to verify this without success. Does anyone know if a Doctor recommended pulling the feeding tube and the husband agreed, or he ordered the feeding tube removed? My understanding is all the Doctors that have cared for her have recommend keeping her feeding tube in or voiced no opinion. It is the husband who is pushing to end her life. I don't know if this would change anyones opinion, I rather doubt it. Steff, I truly wish she had been explicit in writing down her wishes in this situation. I'm with you in that there is probably no hope and passing peacefully would be a compassionate thing. The way this is happening, there will be three victims. I can't get past allowing her husband (and him specifically) this life or death decision.

When this is your world and you see it every day, gallows humor takes over. My wife worked in hospital ER and they would use humor to cope with the stress. That of course never escaped to the patients or their families and wasn't their true feelings, just a mask. or maybe he was drunk

QUOTE(Steff @ Mar 23, 2005 -> 04:26 PM) Maybe these people have a few more brain cells than those idots that visit CNN.Com.. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/PollVault/s...d=599622&page=2 Should Feeding Tube Be Removed? Support Oppose Non-evangelical 77% 18 Evangelical 46 44 Catholics 63 26 Liberals 68 24 Moderates 69 22 Conservatives 54 40 Democrats 65 25 Independents 63 28 Republicans 61 34 Conservative Reps. 55 40 That's an average of 62.1 supporting the removal. Steff, is there a column for people that support her right to die, believe she should die, but her ex-husband shouldn't be the one making the decision? If her parents wanted the feeding tube removed and her husband was blocking it, would you still support the husband? Edit, let me ask this a different way. Are you supporting her dying as the best course or are you supporting her husbands right to decide? I think there are two issues here.

QUOTE(Mar 23 @ 2005 -> 03:33 PM) From CNN.Com - 3:32pm Central time Who should decide Terry's fate? Politicians 1% 1196 votes Judges 4% 8479 votes Parents 22% 47346 votes Husband 73% 154304 votes I don't know how some people define husband or wife, but I don't consider someone living with his girlfriend and two kids as married in any real sense. But I'm old fashioned. If the option was ex-spouse, I wonder how many votes that would get? While I agree I would want my wife to make this decision, that presupposes, she is still married to me in a real sense. Maybe it's just me, but I could not imagine walking away from my wife in this condition.

QUOTE(mreye @ Mar 23, 2005 -> 09:44 AM) This is the first time I've opened this thread and I'll admit, I'm not going to read all 16 pages. I originally was on the side of the Husband. Why should the parents be allowed to overstep his marital rights? I've since done a complete 180 after learning that he has a girlfriend and 2 kids with her. A nurse has come out claiming that he injected her with insulin in the hospital. The family claims the day before she went into the coma she told them she was leaving her husband. For years he has refused any kind of treatment or therapy for her. Even telling a nurse that had just given her a cold washcloth to hold onto that it was therapy and to remove it. Her brother (I think it was her brother) said that he went with his sister to a home to visit their Grandmother who had a feeding tube and there were others in the same condition and she never mentioned a thing about not wanting to live like that. That's usually the time when people say things like that. All this doesn't seem right to me. What's his motive? Why is this so important to him? Sickness and health? Death do us part? This guy is breaking every vow he made. It's sad. I pray for her and the souls of the people that are basically giving her, an innocent person, a death sentence. If this guy had stayed by her side until the end, I would support his rights as a spouse. I do not consider him anything more than her "legal" spouse. My wife and I agree that unconditional love would have us at each other's bedside, and if we were the patient, would want the other happiness. I know I would not be happy abondoning her. I also do not believe much of the rhetoric on either side. Many people would lie to save a life. People are getting desperate or frustrated.

QUOTE(ChiSoxyGirl @ Mar 23, 2005 -> 07:42 AM) The real questions is: Do they have a shuttle to Celine Dion's show as well? I like the sound of a drunken bachelor party visiting the lovely Mrs. Dion's show. Should spice it right up. I am certain they wouldn't be looking for topless places

I've had to rewrite a couple of my recent posts, because I used language that she was already dead. As in no heart beat. Defining life is a tricky prospect and no one is 100% happy with any definition. With Terri, some people see a beating heart, functioning lung, eyes that move, focal cords the make noises and see life. Still other intelligent, caring individuals see no brain activity beyond the most basic and see death. for everyone. May God help those involved to make the right decision and may this help others to avoid this gut wretching situation.

Wow Nuke, the love you get is truly inspirational

CNN.com link

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 23, 2005 -> 07:35 AM) I know you didn't ask me, but one big thing they could do is to change the way their make teachers. I have first hand knowledge of two "teachers" colleges and many teachers end up that way because they failed at another major, and to keep them in school they have them become a teacher. (You can't make it in premed, teach bio in elementary school) We need to have our brightest educating our children. Another thing we HAVE to do is end the socio-economic discrimination that is local property tax funding of schools. Since the federal government seems to want to educate our kids now, they need to sit down, and figure out a way to make the intercity schools as well funded as the white suburban schools. Part one I think is a bit of an exaggeration based on teachers I have known. Part two is dead on and welcome to Democratic thinking 101. Taking money away from public schools is not the answer. I also think those private school families should think twice about vouchers. I hear how many of them are happy their kids aren't hanging with the "public school kids" with vouchers, they would be as those kids are seated next to their kids. One thing that bugs me is it is very easy for public officials to score points by attacking the school systems and the teachers that are involved. Like every profession, there are some bad, but by and large, teachers are some of the most altruistic, caring, dedicated people I know. Why else work for teachers wages? We need to support those teachers and not allow our elected officials to beat the drum just to score points with voters.

QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ Mar 22, 2005 -> 11:39 PM) Still stuck out in the wastelands of southern New Mexico for a bit longer but I do have access to the net for the time being but my cell phone coverage still blows ass ( DAMN YOU VERIZON! ). Obviously the guy who called Chicago the windy city never visited a desert like this. WHEW! I thought you said you would be in Texas? The wind is never ending. If you headed out on Hwy 10 you probably saw the miles and miles of wind farms. Ugly s*** if you ask me. How are the wild flowers up north? Beats anywhere in the GMT+4 time zone

Wow, great resource.