Texsox

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 17, 2009 -> 03:42 PM) Of course not. I'm all for penalties, but they should not include not getting into the HOF. And cheating from past eras should be examined as well. Maybe make baseball like golf. If you're out and the umpire calls you safe, tell him you were out and go back to the dugout. ARod not in the HOF? That's ridiculous. As I said, he's also facing juiced up pitchers. I'm saying cheating has always been laughed at. What a player could get away with has always been sort of admired. I don't admire anyone taking steroids, but if there were no penalties when this cheating occurred, what can you do about it? Guys with a HOF vote try to use their power to keep guys out of the HOF, when, most likely, guys they do elect, at least a few of them, used, and either weren't caught, or it wasn't obvious. Sammy Sosa won't get in the HOF and he's never tested positive as far as I know. Is that fair? He got bigger. He played 15 years and gained 50 pounds of muscle. It looks very suspicious, but its not impossible to be done without cheating. Dick, one area we really differ is in the severity of cheating. You seem to consider steroids to be no worse than scuffing a ball. I disagree. Steroids to me is far worse. I believe most fans place it at a much worse level. Much like I draw a distinction between speeding 5 over versus 45 over. The Hof is a interesting debate. While it seems unfair to keep some of these guys out, how about some respect for guys that didn't cheat? Imagine Baines on steroids. I believe it is fairly easy to imagine his credentials with steroid induced power. So if those other guys stats are keeping someone like Baines out, is that fair? Or, what about Thomas loosing an MVP to an admitted steroid user? You are right, it is easy to believe that guys with steroid stats are getting screwed, I believe a far more unfair situation are the guys who did not cheat and have reduced stats and no chance for the HoF.

Dick, are you suggesting that cheating is cheating and since some got away with it, or it was laughed off, that all cheating should be treated the same and laughed off? Would you enforce any rules?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 17, 2009 -> 03:27 PM) I think what I'm saying is the other trangressions were cheating as well. People laughed. Gaylord Perry is a HOFer, he cheated. So did Phil Niekro, and many, many others. How many players do you think used greenies the past 30-40 years? When ARod tested positive, there were no penalties in place in MLB for this type of cheating. None. Now there are. I never said look the other way, but keeping guys out of the HOF, because of one or two positive tests seems ludicrious. How many times did Steve Howe test positive for cocaine? Tim Raines was a cokehead, but a lot of people here think he's a HOF. Did kids snort lines because Tim Raines did? Its sad ARod made the choice he made. Its even sadder a most predictable press conference occurs. Its time to move on. The testing is in place. I still think many are using and are ahead of the tests. The only reason steroids are an issue is the home run records. When Sosa and McGwire were hitting everything out of the park in 1998 nobody blinked an eye. If they hit 50-55 each and everyone stayed around there, I believe there still would be no issue. Just remember, the guys pitching the ball were also users. There are degrees of cheating, much like there are degrees of speeding, stealing, etc. Most people view steroids as cheating at a far greater degree than the transgressions you mention.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 17, 2009 -> 03:10 PM) Why is getting caught the end all? Listen to Hawk talk about corking bats. He laughs about it. He talks about guys scuffing balls and throwing spitters, again, they laugh. Cheating is cheating. What's unique about steroids is it benefits both hitter and pitcher. More pitchers threw in the 90s during the steroid era than ever before. The hitters are the ones, except for Clemens, who are being hung here, even guys like Sosa who never has been caught. Has there been one pitcher other than the Rocket with zero positive tests that has even been speculated about? I think that's one thing that's lost here. The pitchers these guys were facing were doing the exact same thing. Again, when Sammy was caught with the corked bat, he was punished. When guys were caught scuffing the ball, throwing spitters, they were punished. Sure, they were laughed at. So let's also laigh at Bonds and the rest happy? So some kids go out and try to scuff a ball or cork a bat, they learn a bit about physics and don't hurt themselves. Now look at steroids No way to catch them on the field. It damages their bodies, when kids emulate them, it damages their bodies. They are cheating 100% of the time. Using your logic, we would never enforce any rules or laws. Why do w ignore someone who is speeding 5 mph over the limit and arrest someone speeding 50 mph over the limit? Why do we call a kids mom when he is caught stealing a candy bar and call the police when he grabs $$$$ out of the register? You can keep pretending to not see the difference, but realize you are in a very small minority of people who cannot understand the difference.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 17, 2009 -> 02:53 PM) Canseco is a rat, and while he may be the big whistle-blower, he shouldn't be a hero. He opened his mouth for cash. Do you consider W. Mark Felt to be a rat? How about Bonds and the rest, they took a steroid needle in the ass to make more cash? Seems like they would be pretty big rats.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 17, 2009 -> 02:46 PM) Players have cheated in baseball ever since they started playing. Why is taking steroids so bad, but throwing spitballs, scuffing balls, taking amphetimines, corking bats..etc. just laughed at as part of the game? I used to think I wouldn't want any PED users on the White Sox, but the more I think about it, they were just looking for an edge just like everyone else was doing other things. The home run record may be sacred, but if it really is, why did they expand the season? Where's the outrage there? Why aren't people complaining about smaller more hitter friendly parks? And oh, by the way, pitchers percentage-wise probably use PEDs more often or at least as often as hitters. If Barry Bonds faces Roger Clemens, shouldn't that be a wash? And when they got caught, they were not just laughed at, they were also tossed out of games, suspended, etc. The unique problem with steroids is, unlike a substance on the ball, scuffing, or even corking a bat, there is no evidence that can be observed on the field. Yes, people have cheated and gotten away with it, but that does not make it right, nor absolve those who are entrusted to run the game, their responsibility to catch those that cheat and punish them.

We all know the losers in baseball's steroid era, how about a few people that may look like heroes in the retelling. Frank Thomas for not and (possibly) Jose Canseco for coming clean and naming names. Others?

Selig could have dealt with this while the stadiums were half empty and the fans were clueless, or, as it turns out, he can deal with it now with record attendance and a fed up public. He got lucky in some ways. Much as you have stated, I wish he did the ethical and moral thing and dealt with it "back then". Sadly, with American business ethics the way the are, he dealt with it in a manner that eventually will be applauded in business and PR schools.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 17, 2009 -> 02:36 PM) I think the fact that he's gotten the money, what, 2x now, suggests that I'm right and you're wrong. Perhaps I am missing your point. I believe since he was getting $250 mil, he knew what was in his contract, what could null and void the contract, exactly what he was taking, and that it was illegal. He knowingly cheated to get his $250 mil.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Feb 17, 2009 -> 02:30 PM) There is no such thing as an over-the-counter drug that is injected. Sidebar, your point is correct, but of interest. In the US no over the counter. Remember drug laws are different in other countries. I've seen a few in Mexico (legal) pharmacies.

QUOTE (MurcieOne @ Feb 17, 2009 -> 02:19 PM) hmmmm.... I think i did it wrong. fixed

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 17, 2009 -> 02:20 PM) It's hard to get a man to understand something when there's $250 million reasons for him to not understand it. Those are $250 million reasons to understand it.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Feb 17, 2009 -> 12:06 PM) Congrats on your drinking buddy award Thank you. I would hate to be a writer and have to rank, in order, all the teams. At best, brackets make more sense Playoff bond, theirs to lose Should be in the race all the way Lots of things have to go really right .500 would be a victory Enjoy the sunshine and the opponent I'd place the Sox in the third group somewhere between 13-23. The only reason to try and rank all in order is to spark debate and get readers and viewers.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Feb 17, 2009 -> 01:16 PM) I have no interest in this press conference, if I wanted to be lied to I would go to a strip club with a fistfull of $20's... Also, the "young" excuse doesn't fly for me he was in MLB for something like 5-7 years and he had a $250m contract, if you want big boy money and responsabilities you have to play by big boy rules. QUOTE (Kid Gleason @ Feb 17, 2009 -> 01:52 PM) He didn't know what he was doing, or how to take it correctly??? Aren't there high school students supposedly using this crap? How does a high school student know what he is doing, but a multi-millionaire in the friggin' major leagues, who has probably see the stuff around for YEARS not know what the heck is going on??? So he is either a complete moron for not knowing what he was doing, or he is a complete moron for knowing what he was doing and a liar. No matter what, he is a complete moron. Same as my Bonds et. al. rants. They are getting paid millions for what they can do with their bodies and will just take anything, blindly? GMAFB

Why is it called a one night stand when it is very rare to be standing?

I am very disappointed. While I understand anyone's desire for an opportunity to be a Senator, hell, there ain't many, this is so wrong. I had a fairly high opinion of Burris, until this week.

Decent enough analysis. We are predicting how humans will perform over a six month season. It is always a crap shoot, if he was a poster here, he would be called a realist. This is probably the most fluid spring training in the past decade. The guys he predicts are on the downside of their careers, are. They may resist the aging process a little longer, but if you had to bet up, down, or stay the same, stay the same or down are the safer picks. A playoff spot last season was a shocker, as would this season.

QUOTE (shipps @ Feb 17, 2009 -> 10:34 AM) How is a Washington apple not on this list? Because they sell for $250,000 each, but it will stimulate the economy like nobody's business besides, no one in Washington can decide on which apple is the real Washington apple.

I assume you mean for eating in hand, not baking or making sauce, or any other use.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Feb 17, 2009 -> 09:08 AM) Reagan at least had the Soviet Union there to justify his absurdly large defense budget if nothing else. We are still holding onto some of these defense programs though and we're always caught up in "next war syndrome" ignoring the fact that the second largest defense budget after ours isn't even anywhere close even if we cut it back significantly. Bob Gates is aware of this though, he's a practical guy and he wants to spend money on stuff we need rather than a bunch of cool stuff we think we can use one day. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...ss-politics-cnn To get the Dems behind his absurdly large defense budget, he gave them every damn program they wanted. Then made certain not to piss anyone off by raising taxes. Once the pols realized how happy everyone was, the vault was open.

Back before Reagan we had tax and spend Dems and Don't Tax and Don't Spend Reps. Reagan brought us Don't Tax and Still Spend DEMReps. Both sides love that. We demand they go borrow some money and give it to us, while we believe someone else will pay for it.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 16, 2009 -> 06:15 PM) That doesn't mean he can't take steps to clean up the record book. I am as critical as anyone about the cheating. Unraveling the record book is a step that I would have to think long and hard about before starting. My first thought is no, but would like to hear arguments on both sides before forming an opinion.

QUOTE (mr_genius @ Feb 16, 2009 -> 06:00 PM) Basically what has happened is the Republicans aren't in control anymore and they needed to 're-invent' the party. They have decided economic conservative approach is a good one right now. If they actually became fiscally conservative, like they were pre-Reagan, I would find it much more appealing to support their candidates.

QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Feb 16, 2009 -> 02:31 PM) As a graduate of the College of Media (nee Communications) and as a former ad professional and a man married to an ad professional, all I have to say is...DON'T DO IT!!! Seriously though, congrats! If she's at all interested...the photojourn professor, Brian Johnson, is absolutely awesome! I will faint if she actually sticks to her major, but we will see. Thanks for the tip. I assume most of her first two years will be spent in lecture theaters run by TAs.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 16, 2009 -> 10:28 AM) I'd love to see them come up with a way to institute a proper stimulus plan. Because economics is an inexact science, there is no way of truly knowing the outcome of any plan. Some have a better chance of succeeding than others. Harry Truman had a great quote "what I need is a one armed economist". Sending everyone a few hundred dollars didn't seem to do much except buy some votes. That may have been all that was hoped for.