Texsox

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Feb 19, 2009 -> 07:25 AM) Ambition and thick skin are fine. Those are not the issues with Burris. The issues with Burris are about corruption, and frankly, cluelessness. Stemming from ambition and believing he can withstand anything.

Neither. But to take this seriously for a moment, Reagan did more. More good, and more bad. The "don't tax and spend, spend, spend" form of government started with Reagan. It empowered every person we sent to Washington to fund every dam program imaginable, and someone else will pay for it.

You have to be ambitious to run for state wide office with a very thick skin. I guess we should not be surprised by this, but terribly disappointed.

The final submission, which may now get me caught up in the plagiarizer software at my university

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 18, 2009 -> 07:21 AM) First off, I never said anyone gets a free pass to cheat. ARods test was taken under the presumption it was annonymous or he had no responsibility to even take it. MLB has changed the rules. When ARod was positive there was no penalty. You can't go back and charge all the guys who blew a .15 40 years ago with drunk driving. Its time to move on. I just don't understand your thinking that amphetimines were nothing. Its common knowledge they were in every clubhouse. Amphetimines were illegal,no? Good for you if you went to look for something in your garage and found a bag of amphetimines and proceed to pat your son on the back and say, at least they weren't steroids.(This is just a hypothetical, I don't know even if you have a son and I'm not implying this would occur) Why do you think amphetimine use is OK? Just because it wasn't universally considered that DUI wasn't that big of a deal 30-40 years ago by a lot of society, didn't make it right. Hence, the laws were change. It also wasn't frowned upon for a pregnant woman to smoke and get wasted, now it is. Amphetimines were PEDs. They were cheating. If 30 years ago, the players thought it was no big deal, so what. The players today have the same attitude toward steroids. If you can go back 6 years for ARod's test, when there were no penalties, why can't you go back 40 and if you found out Willie Mays was hopped up on amphetimines, for which there now is a test, shouldn't his HOF status be reconsidered? Dick, two options A. We made a big mistake in the 1970s by not cracking down on the amphetamine usage. So now our hands are tied and we can't do anything about steroids or B. We made a big mistake in the 1970s by not cracking down on the amphetamine usage. We are not going to make that same mistake again with steroids, we are going to do something. I pick B. Explain why baseball should make the same mistake twice?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 18, 2009 -> 06:51 AM) KW's take from mlb.com: "There are guys in previous generations who are really outspoken on it, and there's a certain hypocrisy in it," he said. "Let's say you are talking the (19)70s and the '80s, then you are talking there was a lot of amphetamines usage as a performance enhancer. "So, if you are one of those guys, and I've heard guys that I know did that type of thing, criticizing the guys doing the state-of-the-art thing in the mid-'80s into the '90s and (next decade), OK, well, it's a little hypocritical." This is the point I've been trying to make. Many of the players we all cherish and take for granted as "clean" were doing things that were, at least at the time, just as bad IMO. What's the difference between taking amphetimines and steroids as far as the 5 mph over the limit vs. 45 mph over the limit? If steroids were known to enhance performance, and for many years, lifting weights was discouraged, I'm sure the "steroid era" would have began a lot sooner. Dick, if you do not see the performance difference between amphetamines and steroids, you will never understand the speeding analogy. If they truly are equivelent in how they enhanced performance players would not have switched. It is clear to everyone, especially the athletes, that steroids were of a much bigger benefit with much less risk to getting caught. Again, just because people got away with stuff in the past does not give everyone in the future a free pass to cheat. At some point society changes the rules based on current attitudes. Use that argument in court when you receive a DUI at .09; That blood alcohol level was legal a couple years ago and thirty years ago you could be .15 and the cop would just make certain someone came to get you. So finally standing up and saying enough is enough, we will not take this anymore is common in our society. As we gain new knowledge, society must make new decisions. The argument that "hey we didn't know about it, and this is just another form of something we allowed, albeit worse" just is not valid.

While it certainly seems admirable to equate all cheating and treat it all the same, that just is not how society has operated. Like degrees of speeding, so to are degrees of cheating. Finding a ball with a scuff mark and not alerting the ump is cheating, but would receive a wink from most players. Steroids, IMNSHO, is the worse bit of cheating I can imagine. Undetectable on the field, no way for the ump to catch the cheater No way for the other team to catch the cheater Cheating 100% of the time, no way to "turn it off" Produces far more benefits than scuffing the ball or corking a bat with far less chance of getting caught (then) So I believe the punishments shoud also be in scale with the level of cheating. Much like we have a sliding scale with speeding or stealing, so too should this. Hell, Baseball has sliding scales everywhere. Examine behavior with an umpire. "That was a terrible call" -- walk to the bench "That was a f***ing terrible call" -- still walk to the bench "You are one f***ing terrible umpire, how the &^$^%# did you ever get this job"? -- take a shower "You are one f***ing terrible umpire, how the &^$^%# did you ever get this job"? while kicking dirt on the ump and flipping him off = + a fine "You are one f***ing terrible umpire, how the &^$^%# did you ever get this job"? while kicking ump = ++fine ++ suspension

I'm digging the lemon pepper and garlic parmesan. I've gotten away from the usual wet red ones. I also like shrimp that have been given the same treatment. My ex snagged the commercial deep fryer I owned, I use to love making them at home.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Feb 17, 2009 -> 05:17 PM) So, is she single? Yes, and a conservative, Rush Limbaugh agreeing, Young Republican. Like dear old Dad

QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Feb 17, 2009 -> 05:07 PM) I'm not shocked. Anyone who was willing to take a job from Blogo wasnt on the up and up. Texsox... love the sig I had to look. I expected you to see it right away. LOL That was a funny thread.

QUOTE (jasonxctf @ Feb 17, 2009 -> 02:15 PM) im so over this whole story. The seat is up for re-election in 21 months. Only 21 months, I hear Blago will be his chief fund raiser . . .

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 17, 2009 -> 03:42 PM) Of course not. I'm all for penalties, but they should not include not getting into the HOF. And cheating from past eras should be examined as well. Maybe make baseball like golf. If you're out and the umpire calls you safe, tell him you were out and go back to the dugout. ARod not in the HOF? That's ridiculous. As I said, he's also facing juiced up pitchers. I'm saying cheating has always been laughed at. What a player could get away with has always been sort of admired. I don't admire anyone taking steroids, but if there were no penalties when this cheating occurred, what can you do about it? Guys with a HOF vote try to use their power to keep guys out of the HOF, when, most likely, guys they do elect, at least a few of them, used, and either weren't caught, or it wasn't obvious. Sammy Sosa won't get in the HOF and he's never tested positive as far as I know. Is that fair? He got bigger. He played 15 years and gained 50 pounds of muscle. It looks very suspicious, but its not impossible to be done without cheating. Dick, one area we really differ is in the severity of cheating. You seem to consider steroids to be no worse than scuffing a ball. I disagree. Steroids to me is far worse. I believe most fans place it at a much worse level. Much like I draw a distinction between speeding 5 over versus 45 over. The Hof is a interesting debate. While it seems unfair to keep some of these guys out, how about some respect for guys that didn't cheat? Imagine Baines on steroids. I believe it is fairly easy to imagine his credentials with steroid induced power. So if those other guys stats are keeping someone like Baines out, is that fair? Or, what about Thomas loosing an MVP to an admitted steroid user? You are right, it is easy to believe that guys with steroid stats are getting screwed, I believe a far more unfair situation are the guys who did not cheat and have reduced stats and no chance for the HoF.

Dick, are you suggesting that cheating is cheating and since some got away with it, or it was laughed off, that all cheating should be treated the same and laughed off? Would you enforce any rules?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 17, 2009 -> 03:27 PM) I think what I'm saying is the other trangressions were cheating as well. People laughed. Gaylord Perry is a HOFer, he cheated. So did Phil Niekro, and many, many others. How many players do you think used greenies the past 30-40 years? When ARod tested positive, there were no penalties in place in MLB for this type of cheating. None. Now there are. I never said look the other way, but keeping guys out of the HOF, because of one or two positive tests seems ludicrious. How many times did Steve Howe test positive for cocaine? Tim Raines was a cokehead, but a lot of people here think he's a HOF. Did kids snort lines because Tim Raines did? Its sad ARod made the choice he made. Its even sadder a most predictable press conference occurs. Its time to move on. The testing is in place. I still think many are using and are ahead of the tests. The only reason steroids are an issue is the home run records. When Sosa and McGwire were hitting everything out of the park in 1998 nobody blinked an eye. If they hit 50-55 each and everyone stayed around there, I believe there still would be no issue. Just remember, the guys pitching the ball were also users. There are degrees of cheating, much like there are degrees of speeding, stealing, etc. Most people view steroids as cheating at a far greater degree than the transgressions you mention.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 17, 2009 -> 03:10 PM) Why is getting caught the end all? Listen to Hawk talk about corking bats. He laughs about it. He talks about guys scuffing balls and throwing spitters, again, they laugh. Cheating is cheating. What's unique about steroids is it benefits both hitter and pitcher. More pitchers threw in the 90s during the steroid era than ever before. The hitters are the ones, except for Clemens, who are being hung here, even guys like Sosa who never has been caught. Has there been one pitcher other than the Rocket with zero positive tests that has even been speculated about? I think that's one thing that's lost here. The pitchers these guys were facing were doing the exact same thing. Again, when Sammy was caught with the corked bat, he was punished. When guys were caught scuffing the ball, throwing spitters, they were punished. Sure, they were laughed at. So let's also laigh at Bonds and the rest happy? So some kids go out and try to scuff a ball or cork a bat, they learn a bit about physics and don't hurt themselves. Now look at steroids No way to catch them on the field. It damages their bodies, when kids emulate them, it damages their bodies. They are cheating 100% of the time. Using your logic, we would never enforce any rules or laws. Why do w ignore someone who is speeding 5 mph over the limit and arrest someone speeding 50 mph over the limit? Why do we call a kids mom when he is caught stealing a candy bar and call the police when he grabs $$$$ out of the register? You can keep pretending to not see the difference, but realize you are in a very small minority of people who cannot understand the difference.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 17, 2009 -> 02:53 PM) Canseco is a rat, and while he may be the big whistle-blower, he shouldn't be a hero. He opened his mouth for cash. Do you consider W. Mark Felt to be a rat? How about Bonds and the rest, they took a steroid needle in the ass to make more cash? Seems like they would be pretty big rats.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 17, 2009 -> 02:46 PM) Players have cheated in baseball ever since they started playing. Why is taking steroids so bad, but throwing spitballs, scuffing balls, taking amphetimines, corking bats..etc. just laughed at as part of the game? I used to think I wouldn't want any PED users on the White Sox, but the more I think about it, they were just looking for an edge just like everyone else was doing other things. The home run record may be sacred, but if it really is, why did they expand the season? Where's the outrage there? Why aren't people complaining about smaller more hitter friendly parks? And oh, by the way, pitchers percentage-wise probably use PEDs more often or at least as often as hitters. If Barry Bonds faces Roger Clemens, shouldn't that be a wash? And when they got caught, they were not just laughed at, they were also tossed out of games, suspended, etc. The unique problem with steroids is, unlike a substance on the ball, scuffing, or even corking a bat, there is no evidence that can be observed on the field. Yes, people have cheated and gotten away with it, but that does not make it right, nor absolve those who are entrusted to run the game, their responsibility to catch those that cheat and punish them.

We all know the losers in baseball's steroid era, how about a few people that may look like heroes in the retelling. Frank Thomas for not and (possibly) Jose Canseco for coming clean and naming names. Others?

Selig could have dealt with this while the stadiums were half empty and the fans were clueless, or, as it turns out, he can deal with it now with record attendance and a fed up public. He got lucky in some ways. Much as you have stated, I wish he did the ethical and moral thing and dealt with it "back then". Sadly, with American business ethics the way the are, he dealt with it in a manner that eventually will be applauded in business and PR schools.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 17, 2009 -> 02:36 PM) I think the fact that he's gotten the money, what, 2x now, suggests that I'm right and you're wrong. Perhaps I am missing your point. I believe since he was getting $250 mil, he knew what was in his contract, what could null and void the contract, exactly what he was taking, and that it was illegal. He knowingly cheated to get his $250 mil.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Feb 17, 2009 -> 02:30 PM) There is no such thing as an over-the-counter drug that is injected. Sidebar, your point is correct, but of interest. In the US no over the counter. Remember drug laws are different in other countries. I've seen a few in Mexico (legal) pharmacies.

QUOTE (MurcieOne @ Feb 17, 2009 -> 02:19 PM) hmmmm.... I think i did it wrong. fixed

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 17, 2009 -> 02:20 PM) It's hard to get a man to understand something when there's $250 million reasons for him to not understand it. Those are $250 million reasons to understand it.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Feb 17, 2009 -> 12:06 PM) Congrats on your drinking buddy award Thank you. I would hate to be a writer and have to rank, in order, all the teams. At best, brackets make more sense Playoff bond, theirs to lose Should be in the race all the way Lots of things have to go really right .500 would be a victory Enjoy the sunshine and the opponent I'd place the Sox in the third group somewhere between 13-23. The only reason to try and rank all in order is to spark debate and get readers and viewers.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Feb 17, 2009 -> 01:16 PM) I have no interest in this press conference, if I wanted to be lied to I would go to a strip club with a fistfull of $20's... Also, the "young" excuse doesn't fly for me he was in MLB for something like 5-7 years and he had a $250m contract, if you want big boy money and responsabilities you have to play by big boy rules. QUOTE (Kid Gleason @ Feb 17, 2009 -> 01:52 PM) He didn't know what he was doing, or how to take it correctly??? Aren't there high school students supposedly using this crap? How does a high school student know what he is doing, but a multi-millionaire in the friggin' major leagues, who has probably see the stuff around for YEARS not know what the heck is going on??? So he is either a complete moron for not knowing what he was doing, or he is a complete moron for knowing what he was doing and a liar. No matter what, he is a complete moron. Same as my Bonds et. al. rants. They are getting paid millions for what they can do with their bodies and will just take anything, blindly? GMAFB