Texsox

February 11, 2009 The Sheriff is going too far. Sorry, this is way out of scale. Search warrants on 8 kids homes. Twenty deputies. Nope, he just passed the ridiculous level for a pot violation.

a couple chuckles

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 12, 2009 -> 09:03 AM) That's the opposite of what I want to happen, and it is more likely with separate agencies. Put together as some sort of a consumer protections agency it makes sense to me, I am sure there are some other agencies that could fit in there that I can't think of at the moment. I think your idea would be better than shuffling from one to another. Interestingly, NOAA does a lot for farmers as well. When people think of consumer protection they also think about UL (which is not a government agency). None of this would have stopped the peanut issue, unless we provide every factory an inspector on a daily basis. It seems like the FDA focuses on what is in the market and the USDA focuses on how it got there. Perhaps that would be a better alignment.

Did I read 18,000 man made objects!? Wow. I'd have taken the under at 6,000

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 12, 2009 -> 07:48 AM) In my world, it would be all under the same roof. It does seem that way, and it probably should have been that way from the start. But now it feels like an increase in size overall. Either adding the boots and hat set to the FDA or adding white coated scientists to the USDA. Sounds expensive.

From what I am reading, anything less than jail time is a terrible miscarriage of justice. Those emails are pretty convincing to me. I'm not certain how much time, but something beyond what Enron and the like got would feel about right. 25 Years or so and perhaps it should be federal prison.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Feb 12, 2009 -> 07:19 AM) I think the idea is that they'll be more likely to get away with safety violations because illegals will be afraid to report it. They may think they'll get deported if they draw attention to themselves. That is true but not to the extent you probably are thinking. Remember some of the biggest raids have come at meat processing plants like Swift. They are heavily inspected for safety by OSHA. Very dangerous working conditions even with all the safety improvements. Basically slicing up large carcasses into primals and subprimals is a dangerous occupation. Which is generally why there are not a bunch of people lined up for those jobs. Field work for migrants is again monitored for health issues. The old days of crapping in the fields and no hand washing stations are gone. Partly thanks to the United Farm Workers. As much as I generally dislike unions today, I do have to tip my hat to there efforts in those areas. Farm work is dangerous for everyone, they account for a lot of workplace related injuries. And OSHA comes into play again with the construction industry. Overall, the abuses are general wage issues. No sick days, no vacation, shorted hours, etc.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 12, 2009 -> 07:56 AM) I'm guessing people who are hiring illegals for the most part aren't too worried about other laws. You would be surprised.

http://texascivilrightsreview.org/phpnuke/...le&sid=1329 http://www.brownsvilleherald.com/news/city...nce_public.html http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/6251029.html Basically put up a wall down the Chicago River and you have the situation in Brownsville, Texas. The city is built on the river. No fields or forest to build through. The new deal offered by Homeland Security is basically, you don't like us destroying your city? Fine, you build the wall your way, but at no cost to us. We'll put up a temporary until you get it finished. Brownsville has been enjoying a bit of a revival this century. Their historic district was enjoying some nice expansion of business. The wall would basically cut it in half and basically cripple part of the city. And as you pass over the bridges on the river today, look up and down and imagine a 18' high wall running the length of the river. Now remember Reagan telling the Soviets to tear down this wall!

Sign in an INDIANA store front window 'WE WOULD RATHER DO BUSINESS WITH 1000 AL QAEDA TERRORISTS THAN WITH ONE SINGLE AMERICAN SOLDIER!' This sign was prominently displayed in the window of a business in Whiting, Indiana. You are probably outraged at the thought of such an inflammatory statement.However, we are a society which holds freedom of Speech as perhaps our greatest liberty. And after all, it is just a sign.You may ask what kind of business would dare post such a sign. Answer: You gotta love it! May the God of your choice Bless America !!!!

In the spirit of co-winning the Drinking Buddy award, Heads and I will have a party this summer, he's buying. Thanks Heads, you're the best.

QUOTE (juddling @ Feb 11, 2009 -> 08:33 PM) That question would be "How you gonna eat 5 dollars??" First they would have to borrow the $5 . . .

QUOTE (Cknolls @ Feb 11, 2009 -> 02:43 PM) Not only closed, but retroactive. That seems slimy to do to the average worker.

QUOTE (Cknolls @ Feb 11, 2009 -> 02:43 PM) Sure depending on the level of gov't served. So we would encourage people to stay in the same agency instead if moving. That is probably a good thing. The hidden danger is the more unattractive we make government jobs, the worse the employees that serve us. The reverse is also a problem, better pay and benefits for public versus private. That's ain't right either.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Feb 11, 2009 -> 03:52 PM) Can we call those who hire illegal immigrants and pay them low wages slave drivers? Since that's basically what it is when you get down to the basics, modern-day slavery. A way of getting labor for cheap, not having to worry about ethics or safety standards, etc. In some cases yes. Absolutely. But you still have to worry about safety issues. OSHA doesn't care who you are hiring. Plants get discovered when people get hurt. But yes, overall, especially for the migrant farm workers, conditions are shabby, and they are generally taken advantage of my owners and suppliers.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 11, 2009 -> 03:02 PM) I am guessing they are happy with things the same way that Bernie Madoff was happy about the SEC. They are worried that a more effecient agency will mean more inspections, more scrutiny, more recalls etc. Just because they want the status quo, doesn't mean the status quo is good for consumers. Good point. Sometimes having two agencies to worry about is easier than having one to worry about. The USDA does meat and eggs, the FDA all others. Which do you want to move to the other?

Is adding a lab at the USDA going to save us anything? Remember, reportedly, the agribusiness industry is happy with the way things are now. I guess the FDA lab would, in theory, now be smaller.

QUOTE (WSoxMatt @ Feb 11, 2009 -> 01:25 PM) Graff was most helpful booting that ground ball in Game 2 of the ALDS in '05

QUOTE (bmags @ Feb 11, 2009 -> 01:18 PM) I'm learning about the FDA in my drugs and behavior class, it's a pretty astounding level of trust with the public they are in charge of. That said I know less of USDA, but if they can merge and work better, that would be a good thing. But, I'd like to see a report on it. Our society is based on trust. We do not know the people who produce our food, clean our water, etc. From checking out the websites, I picture the FDA in labcoats and clean rooms, I see the USDA in muck boots on a farm.

QUOTE (bmags @ Feb 11, 2009 -> 10:16 AM) This thread is very interesting. I thought I knew what most of these government agencies did, until I had to research a couple. I'm not certain if I necessarily agree with the scope of what they are tasked with, but most are pretty damn amazing with all they do.

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Feb 11, 2009 -> 12:56 PM) But Tex, they DO accept benefits, every time they go to an emergency room for a cold or worse, because they can't be refused treatment. Again, the same for anyone working that job. No difference. But who do you think is more likely to show up, a documented, legal worker, or an illegal?

QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Feb 11, 2009 -> 12:51 PM) I don't know but if working for minimum wage > unemployment, that's what I'll take. It's possible that we'll be filling bankrupcty either way because we are barely making it as is. If my income gets cut in half, we're toast. As noted, the minimum wage jobs are stepping stones, and guys like you have stepped past them. With a little creativity to get past those $12 per hour jobs where underemployment is a concern, you would be making better than minimum wage. What many people think of as minimum wage, really isn't. We rarely see minimum wage workers.

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Feb 11, 2009 -> 12:47 PM) Minimum wage jobs are not meant to be supporting families, but stepping stones towards bigger jobs. Job that pay that low expect higher turnover than others. It's the $12 an hour jobs where they want more stability, and are afraid of hiring that guy who was making $70k last year. Bottom line, those jobs that the lowest skilled immigrants (legal and illegal) take are not in high demand by people that were born and raised in the US. And what the government likes are illegals who do not have social security cards who accept no benefits, but pay sales taxes, property taxes, fuel taxes, etc. etc. If all of a sudden we unleashed 10,000,000 workers receiving benefits on the system, we'd be in a world of hurt. So that is a big fat reason why we've done nothing besides flap our gums and rattle swords. Remember Reagan and Bush's answers.

QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Feb 11, 2009 -> 12:34 PM) Unless I find something within the next year or two, I'll be taking whatever job I can get, minimum wage or otherwise because I'm certain that I won't be able to support my family on unemployment alone. Sure, $250 per week. for 40 at minimum wage. What's your rent? Food bill? Health Insurance? Car payment? Gas? Clothing? How much more than unemployment is that? And would you take time off from your minimum wage job to interview for a "real job"? Believe it or not, many companies do not want a revolving door and a well qualified person looking for a bus boy job or mowing lawns job do not get hired.

QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Feb 11, 2009 -> 12:31 PM) The ones that need money and can't find another job making whatever they were making before. I've read plenty of stories about people that were making 6 figures and are now working 2 parttime jobs to make ends meet. Sure, there are some. Now place yourself in the position of the employer. Do you want to hire someone who may quit tomorrow when a job comes that will actually support their family? Or will you hire the person who has at least a chance of staying with you for a while?